NEW YORK | Port Authority Bus Terminal Replacement

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by TechTalkGuy

Thank you for your observation on this matter.
I agree 100% completely.

The Port Authority Terminal is a multi-level shopping center offering visitors a venue and a destination.

There's even a life-size statue of Jackie Gleason, in uniform as bus driver Ralph Kramden, installed outside the Port Authority Terminal on 8th Ave.

wait, so how did you ever get a photo of this legend not surrounded by bums?

[TechTalkGuy]

The pigeons scared them away!

[Submariner]

That's literally the only redeeming quality about that 3rd world disaster. And even then, it isn't that great. It's a statue of a TV character; when they pay homage to, say, someone of actual note, give me a call.

[BBMW]

If building the terminal in NJ is tied to extending the 7 train over to NJ, it actually does address NJ's like of rail access, at least to some extent.

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

By building a terminal in NJ its not really fixing the overcrowded bus problem. Which is due to a lack of investment in Rail on the NJ side and rapid redevelopment... If the state invests in Rail in NJ in those key areas the bus volume could be reduced by half... The 7s extension seems to be tied with a grossly large wetlands / Industrial redevelopment plan...its driven by greed like everything else in this region.. I'm fine with a smaller terminal in NYC if the congestion problem on the NJ side is addressed by investing in Rail... The Rail investment stalemate is due to the Governor which term ends in 2018... Build these following projects and you can significantly reduce the strain on the Bus network.

-Gateway Rail Project
-MOM Rail network (Central Jersey) - 115,000 daily riders (county estimate)
-West Shore Line - 14,000
-Northern Branch & Cross Bergen LRT - 50,000
-Lackawanna Rail access - 8,000

Those 5 projects would greatly reduce the strain on the NYC bound buses , either sending onto the commuter rail into NYC via the Gateway or into Hoboken via the LRT. Combined all those projects cost 27 to 30 billion.. But they would future proof the regions transport capacity... Then you could build a smaller terminal in Manhattan....

[C.]

Times Square West

A dynamic new neighborhood linking Times Square and Hudson Yards

Pelli Clarke Pelli Architects assembles an international, multidisciplinary team for the Port Authority Bus Terminal Competition

The Pelli Clarke Pelli Architects and BuroHappold Engineering team have joined forces to present their vision for a new Transit Center and West Side district: Times Square West. The new district will link the emerging Hudson Yards neighborhood with the iconic destination of Times Square, unifying Manhattan’s West Side and reinforcing its status as one of the world’s great commercial, residential, and entertainment centers. Their visionary design includes a state-of-the-art Transit Center at the heart of a master plan that creates unprecedented development opportunities on Port Authority property, while respecting and enhancing the unique character of its neighborhood.

A Compact and Highly Efficient Transit Center. The Transit Center is twice as efficient and 25% smaller than the existing terminal. Its scalable design, allows adding capacity without expanding horizontally.

Enhanced Local Retail and Vibrant Street Life. The new Transit Center and master plan restores city blocks currently occupied by existing infrastructure, reduces bus traffic, and creates street-level storefronts for local businesses.

Covered Tunnel Approaches. Located between 9th and 10th Avenues and 38th and 40th Streets, the new Transit Center eliminates existing access ramps and returns the blocks they inhabit to the neighborhood.

Reduced Traffic Congestion. By locating the new Transit Center at the entrance to the Lincoln Tunnel, buses will no longer need to use city streets.

Exclusive Use of Port Authority Property. The new terminal uses only property owned by the Port Authority. All new development envisioned by the master plan occurs on property created by the demolition of the existing terminal, its access ramps, and property already controlled by the Port Authority.

Self-financed. The new Transit Center can be fully financed by the development of existing Port Authority Property.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by BBMW

If building the terminal in NJ is tied to extending the 7 train over to NJ, it actually does address NJ's like of rail access, at least to some extent.

There is zero chance of a terminal being built in NJ. NJ doesn't want to build such a terminal.

The terminal will be built in Manhattan, and no one can stop it, as long as the governors of NY and NJ are on-board (the governors control the Port Authority).

And the existing terminal has to be demolished, because the PA needs to sell the land to finance the new terminal. The PABT covers a HUGE site and the PA is not bound by NYC zoning rules, so the site will likely sell for billions, as it has (in theory) unlimited FAR right in the middle of Times Square.

[BBMW]

If the NY governor (Cuomo or other as time goes on), doesn't want it, it won't happen. He'll get his appointees on the PA to squash it. If he gets enough pressure from city politicians opposed to it, he'll likely have to do this.

No one in NY cares what NJ wants.

Originally Posted by Crawford

There is zero chance of a terminal being built in NJ. NJ doesn't want to build such a terminal.

The terminal will be built in Manhattan, and no one can stop it, as long as the governors of NY and NJ are on-board (the governors control the Port Authority).

And the existing terminal has to be demolished, because the PA needs to sell the land to finance the new terminal. The PABT covers a HUGE site and the PA is not bound by NYC zoning rules, so the site will likely sell for billions, as it has (in theory) unlimited FAR right in the middle of Times Square.

[Nexis4Jersey]

NY reddit and some News comment sections disagree with your idea of New Yorkers being opposed to a New terminal... Most people seem to want a new terminal in NY along with other NY infrastructure upgrades.... Only the pro-redevelopment people on sites like these seem to want it to be built elsewhere and a Penn station downscale...

[C.]

The new terminal is planned to be located west of 9th street, and the existing PABT will be demolished for redevelopment. We could be looking at Manhattan's next mega development after Hudson Yards!

It will be interesting to see, for political reasons, if the Port Authority submits to NYC's zoning, strong-arms to city to force rezoning, or utilizes its immunity to local zoning, granted by the interstate compact authorized by the States and Congress.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by CIA

The new terminal is planned to be located west of 9th street, and the existing PABT will be demolished for redevelopment. We could be looking at Manhattan's next mega development after Hudson Yards!

It will be interesting to see, for political reasons, if the Port Authority submits to NYC's zoning, strong-arms to city to force rezoning, or utilizes its immunity to local zoning, granted by the interstate compact authorized by the States and Congress.

If the board was united maybe but they aren't or even close. The NY members probably won't authorize the agency to override NYC's land use process and the local pols will hamstring the project. The city could also make it super difficult to actually build as well even if they did. Without local buy in I'm not seeing a path forward.

[C.]

Good analysis, I agree that's the likley outcome. Although, this project is of great importance, to not only to the region, but to the economic health of the United States. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of people a day that rely on it to access their jobs. It may be too important of a decision to leave to local pols, political bickering, and NIMBYism. The cost will be in excess of $10 billion. Maybe $15 billion considering the inevitable cost overruns. The amount of Real Estate development the Port Authority chooses to allow will directly reduce their capital contribution to the new PABT. I would not be surprised to see another Atlantic Yards-type situation. The State could reaffirm Port Authority's immunity to zoning, to take some of the political pressure off Port Authority acting alone.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by CIA

I would not be surprised to see another Atlantic Yards-type situation. The State could reaffirm Port Authority's immunity to zoning, to take some of the political pressure off Port Authority acting alone.

Given that open opposition from NY's PA board members would be extremely unlikely to have come without Cuomo's approval I'm suspecting that is not in the offing. With city, state, and federal officials lining up against a new Manhattan terminal I'd be rather shocked to see Cuomo buck them all without a real good reason...which at this point doesn't appear to exist.

[C.]

The new terminal will be located west of 9th Street or in New Jersey if the NY pols that are protesting it are successful in their backlash. Either way, the existing 8th Ave site of the PABT is toast and will be redeveloped.

[k1052]

Talk of 7 train to Secaucus resurfaces in Port Authority study

http://www.politico.com/states/new-y...s-again-105607

Obviously NJ board members not fans of this again....though if Manhattan refuses to allow a new terminal to be sited on the west side I'm not sure what their options will realistically besides a 7 extension.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by k1052

Obviously NJ board members not fans of this again....though if Manhattan refuses to allow a new terminal to be sited on the west side I'm not sure what their options will realistically besides a 7 extension.

Again, Manhattan has no say in the matter.

The only people who have a say in this decision are the governors of NY and NJ.

If you want a bus terminal in NJ, you need the governor of NJ to agree. Otherwise, it's going to Manhattan (or I guess, theoretically, you could have nothing happen, if Cuomo opposes a NY bus terminal too, but I doubt that's realistic).

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by BBMW

If he gets enough pressure from city politicians opposed to it, he'll likely have to do this.

Why? Why would Cuomo care?

Originally Posted by BBMW

No one in NY cares what NJ wants.

What does this even mean? NY is married to NJ through the PA. NY can't do a thing without NJ's approval, and vice-versa.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by k1052

With city, state, and federal officials lining up against a new Manhattan terminal I'd be rather shocked to see Cuomo buck them all without a real good reason...which at this point doesn't appear to exist.

But there's no such thing; you made this up.

Where are the "city state and federal officials" opposed to the Manhattan terminal? Name one, please.

The opponents are the local neighborhood NIMBY politicans, who have no say in the matter, and oppose all local development. They fought Hudson Yards and every single development in the area over the last 50 years. They will never support new development, but obviously can be bypassed.

[C.]

Originally Posted by k1052

Talk of 7 train to Secaucus resurfaces in Port Authority study

http://www.politico.com/states/new-y...s-again-105607

Obviously NJ board members not fans of this again....though if Manhattan refuses to allow a new terminal to be sited on the west side I'm not sure what their options will realistically besides a 7 extension.

As West Side politicians and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey fight over the fate of a new bus terminal on Manhattan’s west side, the Port is expected to release the results of its bus terminal design competition this week.

Sources say that some of the designs for the multi-billion facility call for a modular structure, while others would have it built underground.

At the same time, the Port plans to release a study arguing that an extension of the 7 train to Secaucus with a bus terminal alongside remains “the one major trans-Hudson investment that studies suggest could significantly reduce long-term Bus Terminal demand.”

EXCELLENT!

[C.]

Signaling a truce, Port Authority and West Side officials announce 'comprehensive planning process’

The Port Authority and the West Side elected officials who have been engaged in a protracted battle over plans for a new bus terminal in Midtown Manhattan appear to have signed some sort of peace treaty.

On Tuesday morning, they issued a joint statement endorsing “a new expanded, comprehensive planning process,” one that allows for the consideration of “ potential temporary and additional bus facility sites” and takes into account “how a new bus facility should be integrated with current and future regional transportation assets.”

The statement indicates that the Port Authority is, once again, delaying a decision on where to build a new bus terminal to replace the Port Authority Bus Terminal just west of Times Square, which has been over capacity for years now, is nearing the end of its structural lifespan, and is considered obsolete.

Later this week, the Port Authority is planning to release both the results of bus terminal design competition and a study of alternative ways to enhance cross-Hudson commuting capacity, both of which were supposed to aid in a final decision.

The five design competition entries, which no longer seem to matter so much, include a proposal to build a bus terminal underground at the existing site, another proposal to build a bus terminal beneath Javits Center, and more conservative proposals with modular components and green roofs, according to a source briefed on the matter. One of the options would cost at least $16 billion, according to the source.

The study, meanwhile, once again touts the utility of extending the 7 train to Secaucus, since it would divert commuter traffic away from the bus terminal.
Both the study and the competition were supposed to be key factors in informing the Port Authority’s final decision on how to go about replacing the bus terminal.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/states/new-y...#ixzz4Ko9ogfyG
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

[Nexis4Jersey]

The 7 train to NJ is a band aid solution and will not fix the root cause of the overcrowded buses..