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  #1  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 11:28 PM
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Winnipeg Mayoral Showdown 2010. Katz vs Murray?

What-ifs stir fantasy election

Gordon Sinclair Sr. | Winnipeg Free Press

Updated: August 19 at 07:25 AM CDT

What if Glen Murray ran for mayor against Sam Katz?

That's what people on the street kept asking Probe Research president Scott MacKay and the other political junkies at the Winnipeg-based polling company.

What if Murray took on Katz in a kind of comeback title bout, featuring the former mayor as the challenger and the current mayor as the reigning champ.

I suspect that "what-if" question Probe has been hearing on the street has its origins in a sense of nostalgia that's fuelled by a fear of the future.

Winnipeg, many believe, is a city without a vision and out of touch with the times. Murray, whatever his faults, was a mayor with vision who was ahead of the times.

But Murray lives and works in Toronto now. He's president and CEO of the non-profit Canadian Urban Institute, which -- according to its website -- is "dedicated to enhancing the quality of life of urban areas across Canada and internationally."

And, so far as I know, the 50-year-old former champ has no plans of coming back to Winnipeg, never mind coming back to make a political comeback.

But there was another "what-if" question the political junkies at Probe kept hearing.

What if Sam Katz didn't run again?

I know these are fantasy what-ifs, but really, there's about as much chance of Katz not running as there is of Murray running. Although, believe it or not, there have been recent rumours about Murray's return to the city.

For Katz, the power and the paycheque are an irresistible combo. Coupled with the fact that, with the next civic election just over two years away, there is no clear or credible contender on the horizon. Anyway, it's fun to fantasize.

Which brings us to the other "what-if" question.

What if Katz didn't run for a third time? Who would be the likely contenders and who would be the favourite?

To answer that question, Probe chose St. Vital Coun. Gord Steeves to run against a former mayoral candidate, St. Boniface Coun. Dan Vandal.

Then they asked 600 Winnipeggers both "what-if" questions.

The results were intriguing.

In the Vandal-Steeves scenario, Vandal came out a decisive winner among decided voters, 32 per cent to 23 per cent, finishing ahead in all sections of the city except his hypothetical opponent's home turf of St. Vital.

The more interesting result, of course, was the hypothetical title fight between current mayor Katz and former mayor Murray.

It ended in a no-decision.

Katz and Murray each amassed 40 per cent of the decided "vote."

If you're in Murray's corner, that's a win.

After all, the guy's been gone for four years. Out-of-sight and largely out-of-mind. And Murray is still able to got-toe-to-toe without even campaigning.

For the record, Probe added some interesting detail and analysis to the polling results.

Murray's base comes from women and people who have graduated from university, while Katz counts more on men, voters with "some" post-secondary education, and families with young children.

There's another even more revealing but hardly surprising indicator of support. Most of Katz's backing also comes from people who vote for the Conservatives, both federally and provincially, while much of Murray's support comes from federal Liberal and provincial NDP voters.

But Probe president MacKay told me that what's curious is that Katz, the Tuxedo Tory, also appears to have the support of blue-collar workers.

Many of whom, I'm guessing, still see him as Mr. Field of Dreams.

Apparently his blue-collar supporters haven't woken up to who he is as mayor.

Which is one reason we need to bring party politics out of the closet at city hall.

At least that would officially stamp Katz as a civic Conservative in a city that votes NDP provincially.

And official party politics would be pressure on the NDP to at least field a candidate against a mayor who ran uncontested last time.

What the Probe poll result also suggests, though, is something even more important to Winnipeg.

Sam Katz can be beaten by a strong and credible candidate.

The question is who?

gordon.sinclair@freepress.mb.ca
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  #2  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 11:30 PM
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Winnipeg Free Press Online Poll:


If Glen Murray and Sam Katz were running for mayor in the next civic election, for whom would you vote?


Sam Katz 35%
Glen Murray 65%

Total Votes: 5459
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  #3  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 11:35 PM
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My own private thoughts / feelings..

Voting for Dan Vandal, and even more scary..him winning would probably be one of the worst things that could happen to this city.

Especially in light of how he handled the 100 Main fiasco.

Speaking of which, where are those friends of that heroin hideway we call a "fort"?
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  #4  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
My own private thoughts / feelings..

Voting for Dan Vandal, and even more scary..him winning would probably be one of the worst things that could happen to this city.

Especially in light of how he handled the 100 Main fiasco.

Speaking of which, where are those friends of that heroin hideway we call a "fort"?
Probably in hiding, as this is easier than actually coming up with a plan of which they clearly don't have

As for the purpose of this thread, I think we need to focus on any "real" candidates that will help propel Winnipeg into the 21 century, if there are any out there that is.
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  #5  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
My own private thoughts / feelings..

Voting for Dan Vandal, and even more scary..him winning would probably be one of the worst things that could happen to this city.

Especially in light of how he handled the 100 Main fiasco.

Speaking of which, where are those friends of that heroin hideway we call a "fort"?
That fiasco was created by the Mayor's office. The project failed before it even got off the ground.

Dan Vandal used to chair the PPD committee at City Hall. Ask anybody who ever appeared before him - I'm sure most would say he was one of the most decent and easy to deal with councillors they had come across. Lots of shenanigans come out of that Committee these days (and of course in the past) but he ran a pretty steady ship.

If you really want to know how City Hall works, go watch it.
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  #6  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 12:50 AM
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well i just did a google found their site and sent them a msg bu their site has not been updated since march 31s...

http://www.upperfortgarry.com/
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  #7  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 12:51 AM
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If you really want to know how City Hall works, go watch it.
what he said!
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  #8  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 1:20 AM
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What a sad commentary that poll is ...

.. it is obvious that 65% who reponded to it really hate to see the business community grow.

I guess the friends of the NDP are in active mode. Luckily that train has left the station and Winnipeg is stronger than it has been in my lifetime. Winnipeg finally has a leader who makes the city's economy a priority and is seeing ex-pats return because of it.

While the murray loving socialists may hate Katz.. and his economy comes before unions policy outlook.. in my books Katz is doing a very good job. Hopefully he desides to remian Mayor for at least one more term.
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Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 1:26 AM
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I can only imagine returning to the days when pathetic million dollar street parties were the basis of economic policy.. and city projects coming in at 50 - 150% over budget on a regular basis. Not to mention the steady out migration such well managed city governemt resulted in.

Thank goodness that nightmere is over.
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  #10  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 1:34 AM
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what he said!
I've been to city hall plenty of times. The last time around to see if Ken Zaifman got his hotel approved.

I've probably sat in on at least 3 or 4 zoning hearings this year. When you consider that the average citizen usually doesn't ever go to a zoning hearing I think I have somewhat of a decent idea of what goes on at City Hall.
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Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 1:39 AM
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While the murray loving socialists may hate Katz.. and his economy comes before unions policy outlook.. in my books Katz is doing a very good job. Hopefully he desides to remian Mayor for at least one more term.
Honestly, I could care less for either one of them.
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Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 1:42 AM
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mury walked away from us when he did what going to stop him from doing that again?
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  #13  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 1:42 AM
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Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
What a sad commentary that poll is ...

.. it is obvious that 65% who reponded to it really hate to see the business community grow.

I guess the friends of the NDP are in active mode. Luckily that train has left the station and Winnipeg is stronger than it has been in my lifetime. Winnipeg finally has a leader who makes the city's economy a priority and is seeing ex-pats return because of it.

While the murray loving socialists may hate Katz.. and his economy comes before unions policy outlook.. in my books Katz is doing a very good job. Hopefully he desides to remian Mayor for at least one more term.
I don't think you'll find any argument from me regarding the merits of having a pro-commerce mayor. (Will somebody PLEASE resurect Steve Juba!?)

It just seems Katz lacks any kind of long term vision extending beyond the next 12 months.

Even Grand Forks tries to have pothole free streets, cut lawns and synchronized traffic lights.

I want to see more on the Tax Increment Financing front. I want to see a lot more people living downtown. I want to see a real and meaningful plan for transit and alternative forms of transport like cycling.

I want more police out of their cars and walking the beat. Incentives to shopkeeps who setup on Main Street

I want: Vision.

When Winnipeg's slogan is whats keeping the mayor up at night, its time for a new mayor.
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Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 2:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
I don't think you'll find any argument from me regarding the merits of having a pro-commerce mayor. (Will somebody PLEASE resurect Steve Juba!?)

It just seems Katz lacks any kind of long term vision extending beyond the next 12 months.

Even Grand Forks tries to have pothole free streets, cut lawns and synchronized traffic lights.

I want to see more on the Tax Increment Financing front. I want to see a lot more people living downtown. I want to see a real and meaningful plan for transit and alternative forms of transport like cycling.

I want more police out of their cars and walking the beat. Incentives to shopkeeps who setup on Main Street

I want: Vision.

When Winnipeg's slogan is whats keeping the mayor up at night, its time for a new mayor.
Well lets look at those points...

The has been a dedicated effort to increase P3 financing... and thus reduce the tax burden on the city. In addition business taxes have dropped 20% and business investment has increased to record levels.

Katz has invested over 100 million in Winnipeg transit in his first 4 years .. more than Murray did in his whole term as mayor.

Katz has trippled the amount of bike trails in the city since taking over.

So what you are saying if I'm correct is ... you've choosen to ignore his accomplishments because some socialists has told you he is failing to live up to there standards of a mindless mismanaged city government.

Please come back to the the side of economic responsible growth... and let lefties dream of the failure of their ideology, which only lives in history books... with the flightless DoDo Bird.
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Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 2:38 AM
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i have no idea what to think about the mayors all i know is city councle is a pos full of trolls
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  #16  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 2:46 AM
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i have no idea what to think about the mayors all i know is city councle is a pos full of trolls
I agree ..there should be a 3 term limit for councilers.

We don't need lifers who have long since dried up of inovative and original ideas.
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  #17  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 3:11 AM
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i'd vote for a donkey in a blue suit before katz.
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  #18  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 3:13 AM
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i'd vote for a donkey in a blue suit before katz.
Yes ... I know you're a big fan of Glen "donkey in a blue suit" Murray.
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Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 3:13 AM
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viking for mayor lol
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  #20  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 3:17 AM
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i'd vote for a donkey in a blue suit before katz.
Be careful what you wish for
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