Cities of the Americas - what's your cities most European-like neighborhood/district?

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

Beautiful pics from urban Cleveland! Many people moving in?

yes, they say out of state plates are seen everywhere this summer.

the city population massively bleeding away had recently just about stopped -- so let's hope things are getting better. some bloggers say they are:


Cleveland ended the decade with a boom, and it's showing

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/...in-just-3.html

Specifically, Bier said: "People will continue to move out -- which is normal, just as people move from suburb to suburb -- but probably within a few years movers-in will exceed movers-out," Bier wrote. "Then, after 70 years of loss, the corner finally will have been turned as growth takes hold."

Cleveland's wealth has increased significantly in the last four years even as Cleveland's population has slightly decreased.

Within an hour's drive ... is the population equivalent of the entire states of Oregon or Oklahoma. Indeed, Northeast Ohio has a population greater than that of 21 states.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I was watching that new Zac Efron travel show on Netflix last weekend and I learned that part of Iceland is also in North America.

Yes, that's right. There's this cheesy as hell bridge:

[mrnyc]

^ oh wow, i had no idea. what a fun factoid.

[badrunner]

Which Mediterranean country does each image remind you of? For the first one I'm going with Italy or Greece.


https://goo.gl/maps/npyM94G4g88caBpQ8


https://goo.gl/maps/1zajo5thXQtfg2JZA


https://goo.gl/maps/q3eqttu4jT9dcd578


https://goo.gl/maps/JoRnhPbZW5zFMcqu8


https://goo.gl/maps/rZLe2KeWXepEKxjQ8

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

yes, they say out of state plates are seen everywhere this summer.

the city population massively bleeding away had recently just about stopped -- so let's hope things are getting better. some bloggers say they are:


Cleveland ended the decade with a boom, and it's showing

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/...in-just-3.html

Specifically, Bier said: "People will continue to move out -- which is normal, just as people move from suburb to suburb -- but probably within a few years movers-in will exceed movers-out," Bier wrote. "Then, after 70 years of loss, the corner finally will have been turned as growth takes hold."

Cleveland's wealth has increased significantly in the last four years even as Cleveland's population has slightly decreased.

Within an hour's drive ... is the population equivalent of the entire states of Oregon or Oklahoma. Indeed, Northeast Ohio has a population greater than that of 21 states.

I hope the whole CSA turns the corner and resumes growth.

And if urban living keeps trendy, I doubt there are many places in the US better than Cleveland. Imagine living in an apartment overviewing Terminal Tower?

[Minato Ku]

Originally Posted by Nantais

On the other hand, lot of things that are considered as European aren't necessarily "European" : for example I keep on reading in these kinds of threads how Québec looks so European or so French. If Québec's center looks indeed very different from the other North American downtowns, it still doesn't really look like any French city. And, of course, Québec's metro area outside the city core actually looks like typically North American.

Indeed
There are somethings that don't really feel right about the old Quebec City to look like a city of France.
It gives me an even more uneasy feel than many other examples.

I can't really give what is the exact thing that seems wrong.
Is it a lack of density? Maybe, a city of the size of Quebec city woud have a much denser old town.
The architecture ? Maybe but there are also some very different french cities.
Maybe a very different 19th century architectural style. It's a time when France tried to uniformise a bit the country. The idea to create a republican identity.
A too well kept ambience that in one way look too authentic to be true and give a more Epcot feel than a French city ? The shops.

The old town of Quebec city seems very touristy based while old part of a medium and large French city could have some districts where tourist trade dominate but those are next to other commercial areas more oriented toward local trade (that includes chains stores).

People tend to compare old Quebec city with the Place du Tertre area in Montmartre but it's not representative of Paris. Infact Montmartre wasn't part of Paris until 1860 and it's a very touristy part that locals avoid.

Rue Norvins, Montmatre

Rue du Mont-Cenis

It's even worse than Times Square or Hollywood blvd. Locals have literally nothing to do there. I don't feel I'm in Paris there.
The Champs Elysees (often seen as too touristy) is much more local than this area of Montmartre.

Now a look of the streets just around.
Those are much more representative of Paris.

Rue de Clignancourt

Rue Lamarck

Rue Damrémont

Originally Posted by begratto

If I had to pick one French city that has a familiar feel to Quebec City, it would be St-Malo.

St-Malo : https://goo.gl/maps/1THJxzkokDNzZmPp6

Quebec City : https://goo.gl/maps/LBvt43jyMKBm7j5V7

The comparision with St Malo is interesting.
St Malo is much smaller city.
Only 80,000 inhabitants in its metropolitan area. About 110,000 if we includes the nearby Dinard.

The streetscape of Saint Malo is denser.
For a walled city, old Quebec is not very dense.

Saint Malo has been heavily bombed during WW2 and what you see was actually built during the late 1940s and early 1950s.

The "old" center of Saint Malo seems more and more oriented toward tourists trade.
Most of the major chains stores are in big boxes or shopping malls in the outskirt.
It's always interesting to see where is the local FNAC (large retailer of electronic, books, DVD...). It's often worrying when it's not downtown.
The FNAC for St Malo area is in a shopping mall in the outskirt of Dinard.
FNAC Dinard-Pleurtuit

[Martin Mtl]

European doesn’t just equal France and even less just Paris (quelle surprise, n’est-ce pas?).

And the European feel is not just a matter of buildings, but also street grid. Old Quebec City doesn’t look anything like Paris, of course, but it also doesn’t look like anything else in NA. It most definitively has an european vibe, while also being different somewhat. It’s unique, which is a good thing.

Old Montreal was mostly build by British and Scottish entrepreneurs. Nothing to do with France and Paris anymore. Quebec city is midway.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I agree with this. I think there is a lot of good things to say about North American urbanism.

One thing I’ve noticed about most continental European countries is that their lower density neighborhoods have houses that are usually hidden behind a 7 foot tall masonry wall. These environments are brutal to walk around in - easily as monotonous and tedious as walking along a suburban arterial lined with gas stations. Our low density areas can still be urban and inviting since they usually have small lawns with trees and little gardens, and things like front porches, which are sometimes ornately detailed.

Europeans also haven’t really figured out how to build skyscrapers in an urban setting. In La Defense, Canary Wharf and Rotterdam they’re usually surrounding large plazas. They look good as standalone landmarks, but they don’t feel like they’re part of the urban fabric the way they do in, say, midtown Manhattan or the Loop. I haven’t been to Frankfurt, but from street viewing the area around the Commerzbank tower, things seem kind of underwhelming at street level.

I love the City. It integrates skyscrapers into the old twisting fabric of historic London in a gorgeous way. It beats most NA downtowns in their own game.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Minato Ku

The comparision with St Malo is interesting.
St Malo is much smaller city.
Only 80,000 inhabitants in its metropolitan area. About 110,000 if we includes the nearby Dinard.

The streetscape of Saint Malo is denser.
For a walled city, old Quebec is not very dense.

That's the thing with "European"-style areas in the Americas though - when they were built they were much smaller settlements. The European colonizers brought over their architectural styles and urban forms when they founded cities here; which generally would have looked similar to modestly-sized towns back home. Of course, as American cities grew and their societies diverged from their colonial lineage they developed their own styles and for the most part rebuilt their settlements over time. Likewise, Europe also developed in its own direction(s).

For the cities that did preserve their historic colonial cores though, what remains is now more a reflection of the city in that era than of their current size or prominence. That's why old Quebec City looks more like St. Malo or other smaller northern towns than it does now-comparable cities like Nantes or Strasbourg.

Quebec's inner city beyond the walls for example feels more "big city" than the historic centre, but is built in a much more local vernacular: https://goo.gl/maps/i9sb4nAC2PxoQ4rA9

[kool maudit]

In some ways, both Quebec and Montreal look more Scottish than French.

Aberdeen: https://goo.gl/maps/dhsEckL6L88Y18Yj9

Dundee: https://goo.gl/maps/nG35GrdJna7Lwrtp6


edit: Martin noted this first

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

In some ways, both Quebec and Montreal look more Scottish than French.

Aberdeen: https://goo.gl/maps/dhsEckL6L88Y18Yj9

Dundee: https://goo.gl/maps/nG35GrdJna7Lwrtp6


edit: Martin noted this first

I'd totally agree, though Montreal and especially Quebec City are less "sober" in their architecture and more "whimsical" (fantaisiste) than Scottish cities typically are.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

European doesn’t just equal France and even less just Paris (quelle surprise, n’est-ce pas?).

And the European feel is not just a matter of buildings, but also street grid. Old Quebec City doesn’t look anything like Paris, of course, but it also doesn’t look like anything else in NA. It most definitively has an european vibe, while also being different somewhat. It’s unique, which is a good thing.

Old Montreal was mostly build by British and Scottish entrepreneurs. Nothing to do with France and Paris anymore. Quebec city is midway.

If you consider that both of these are "of Europe"...

https://www.google.ca/maps/@39.85837...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@65.01256...7i13312!8i6656

Then definitely Quebec City could pass for a variant of the European look. Since "Europe" doesn't have a single look. It wouldn't take much to make it fit in perfectly: purging some of the North American-style vehicles on the street, and a few tweaks to road signage and infrastructure.

And as demonstrated by this thread, Quebec City is far from the only city in North America that has areas that could pass for something that might plausibly be in Europe.

Unless your only definition of Europe is this:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.84661...2!8i6656?hl=fr

Though if that's the case, most European cities wouldn't pass the test either.

[MonkeyRonin]

Old Montreal looks sort of "generically European", but I can't pinpoint any specific place in Europe that it resembles. It's vaguely Germanic central European, vaguely colonial French, vaguely London-esque. But in a pinch, I guess it could pass for parts of Edinburgh or Glasgow. The pervasive grey stone certainly helps.

Old Quebec has a clearer provincial French link, but there is a bit of that British Isles DNA that's worked its way in there as well.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

I love the City. It integrates skyscrapers into the old twisting fabric of historic London in a gorgeous way. It beats most NA downtowns in their own game.

I'm assuming City = London? If so, it's a dead zone after business hours. Like Canary Wharf. Very sterile with little other activity. Reminds me of downtown Houston but nicer.

[kool maudit]

Dead save for a bunch of pubs surrounded by loud, sniffly 30ish men in identical blue shirts.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Old Montreal looks sort of "generically European", but I can't pinpoint any specific place in Europe that it resembles. It's vaguely Germanic central European, vaguely colonial French, vaguely London-esque. But in a pinch, I guess it could pass for parts of Edinburgh or Glasgow. The pervasive grey stone certainly helps.

That's a great way of putting it. It almost looks like what the North American ideal of EUROPE would be as presented through any number of mediums. Of course it developed long before any of these preconceptions were a thing.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If you consider that both of these are "of Europe"...

https://www.google.ca/maps/@39.85837...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@65.01256...7i13312!8i6656



And as demonstrated by this thread, Quebec City is far from the only city in North America that has areas that could pass for something that might plausibly be in Europe.

I didn't say that Old Quebec City was the only place in NA that could pass for Europe, I said that there is no other city that looks exactly like it in NA. It's unique. Maybe you can find a google snapshot that ressembles it, but I'm talking about the feel of walking in the old town, living it, the whole place, not just a chosen vista.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by JManc

I'm assuming City = London? If so, it's a dead zone after business hours. Like Canary Wharf. Very sterile with little other activity. Reminds me of downtown Houston but nicer.

You don't have to assume. I actually wrote London in my comment.

Most business district in any city is quiet during the night, even Wall Street. That's not the point. We were talking about architecture and urban fabric. Also, there are tons of pubs in the City that are full of people after business hours. It's hardly dead. Sterile is also not a word I would choose to describe it. I've never been to Houston, but I dont feel that "London vs Houston" should be a thing.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

I didn't say that Old Quebec City was the only place in NA that could pass for Europe, I said that there is no other city that looks exactly like it in NA. It's unique. Maybe you can find a google snapshot that ressembles it, but I'm talking about the feel of walking in the old town, living it, the whole place, not just a chosen vista.

I wasn't disagreeing with you with my message about the look of the place. We are in agreement.

And I definitely agree about the "feel".

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I wasn't disagreeing with you with my message about the look of the place. We are in agreement.

And I definitely agree about the "feel".

English is not my first langage, so I get in that kind of situation all the time :-)