DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[Interzen]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

He's referring to that. HPTE is part of CDOT.

Ah, High Performance Transportation Enterprise. I missed that in my first read.

I agree the pinch point north of Alameda needs to be addressed. I assume they are still planning on rerouting the freight line through the yards and using the right of way for widening I25.

I wonder if the swing back to the existing freight corridor will be just north of 8th through Denver Water property, through the warehouse between 6th and 8th, or through the existing spur line between the All Copy bldg and the Auraria sports fields. Connecting further south would make light rail station 2 sided and possibly increase the land value there but if they want a front range rail transfer station it would make sense to keep the various rail lines together. I remember talk of adding more light rail tracks through there. Maybe they could sink the freight/FRPR tracks below grade. I always held out hope that the 8th Ave viaduct might be brought down to grade as the area is developed but that might not be feasible.

[Interzen]

Ideally they would use the addition of new light rail track to grade separate the light rail and the freight through there. Move the trains to the new track then lower the existing tracks. Pie in the sky dreams but maybe with some helicopter money as Take-5 likes to call it.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Now now, this is not about expanding I-25. But there will be a whole EIS process to flesh that out. There is a bottleneck there that needs fixing. But at most, I'd expect connecting through to the existing managed lanes. Nobody is talking about replicating Houston here. (Let's get a beer, but trust me, the thinking is very 2021.)

You don't know what your missing.

In an effort to untangle the so-called Broadway Curve mess ADOT in January signed a $615 million contract with the winning preferred JV contractor.

I-10 Broadway Curve Improvement Project: Loop 202 to I-17

Major design improvements include:

• Widening I-10 to six general purpose lanes and two HOV lanes in each direction between US 60 (Superstition Freeway) and 24th Street, and adding a fourth general purpose lane in each direction between US 60 (Superstition Freeway) and Ray Road.

It's an 11-mile project and timeline is four years with construction beginning 2nd half of this year.

Other than Flatiron I wasn't familiar with the other players.

The developer -- a joint venture of Pulice Construction, FNF Construction and Flatiron Constructors, with T.Y. Lin International as the lead designer -- was selected over two other finalists after an extensive review by ADOT, the cities of Phoenix and Tempe and the Maricopa Association of Governments. The finalists were encouraged to use innovation and develop alternative concepts to reduce project time and impacts to the traveling public and community while construction is underway.

[bunt_q]

Pulice and TY Lin - team California. Pulice is part of the same ACS/Dragados corporate family as Flatiron. I assume FNF is the local guy.

[seventwentyone]

Denver Post Crane count article

As of February, 22 tower cranes were operating at various construction sites in Denver’s core neighborhood, according to the latest Crane Index Report from construction industry consulting firm Rider Levett Bucknall, or RLB.

That’s a 22% jump over the 18 cranes RLB counted in its last bi-annual survey, conducted in August. A year ago, in the first financial quarter of 2020, before the COVID-19 pandemic began to fully exert an influence on the economy and the construction industry, there were 25 tower cranes in central Denver.

[bulldurhamer]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

The train would not give Boulder an equal level of service. It would come less often and not go to the right place. It's not better than the BRT. This is why we say you just want prestige.

If that seems unfair, tell us what you really want.

Otherwise... bye.

You’re the guy from dc who looks at google maps overheads to make broad definitive claims about Denver’s appropriate level of density? Lol bye

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

You’re the guy from dc who looks at google maps overheads to make broad definitive claims about Denver’s appropriate level of density? Lol bye

The appropriate level of density is one where we can accommodate all people in affordable homes of all kinds at every spectrum. Clearly our metro communtiy is not there.

You don't know any better about what the right density is than anyone else does. You don't have to live somewhere to be interested in it's happenings. I'm glad many people take a liking to Denver, even TakeFive from his sunny Phoenix lens! After all, diversity in discussion is a good thing just like diversity in housing is a good thing!

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

You’re the guy from dc who looks at google maps overheads to make broad definitive claims about Denver’s appropriate level of density? Lol bye

And you're the person or persons who make broad claims about supporting communities of color and underrepresented groups, liked to cry racism at first, but occasionally accidentally drops your mask to reveal that you really support white yuppie-driven NIMBYism to ensure that places like "RiNO" and Boulder don't get too dense. At first I was personally convinced you worked for (or maybe were) one of the Zeppelins. Now... now I just know that you contribute mostly personal attacks and agitate against development using the same weak sauce allyship/white savior language that makes people like Candi C DeBaca hyped up.

True equality in Denver will not come from letting rich landowners get richer and forcing people to move farther out or fight over the scraps of what they allowed the plebs to build. If you want equality in housing and all the other things that the "progressives" from Boulder and Denver claim to support, you need to build, build, build, despite the objections, and you need to work on empowering underrepresented communities to build and densify themselves. Instead of stopping "highrises" or highways, community groups should be helping people in neighborhoods like Swansea or Barnum or Cole or Sunnyside reinvest and develop their own community. Get 10 neighbors on a street, help with financing and planning, allow them to build their own slot home development, and make their own money.

So take your NIMBY self and bye, bro.

[bunt_q]

Poor Cirrus. I think a transplant just tried to strip him of his NATIVE (bicycle) bumper sticker.

[Cirrus]

Friend bulldur, if you have a substantive reply, make it. Otherwise attacking who I am rather than what I said only proves how little you have to say.

As for my Colorado bona fides... I don't owe you any explanation, but I have them.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Poor Cirrus. I think a transplant just tried to strip him of his NATIVE (bicycle) bumper sticker.

It may be that it's now considered abandoned property? Perhaps the Colorado Department of the Treasury is holding it as "unclaimed" property?

Originally Posted by laniroj

You don't have to live somewhere to be interested in it's happenings. I'm glad many people take a liking to Denver, even TakeFive from his sunny Phoenix lens! After all, diversity in discussion is a good thing just like diversity in housing is a good thing!

Perhaps we missed the genius of bulldurhamer's witticism... the key being it has to end with "bye". Even mojiferous caught the "bye" requirement.

Speaking of bona fides
the irony is that while many of us matriculated at CU it's apparently the rare bird who ventured far enough from the dorm room to find the iconic Gold Hill Inn. How many Boulder restaurants have been in the same family since 1962 and are still rated 4.5 stars by Tripadvisor.

Gold Hill Inn
401 Main St, Boulder, CO



..

......

....
All photos courtesy of Gold Hill Inn

Gold Hill Inn is all about mountain air and hearty fare...
This must be one of the best restaurant values in America.
- Gourmet Magazine

"Of the ... good restaurants the business traveler will find in or near the university town of Boulder, Colorado, one stands out as a maverick. "
- Eating High on Gold Hill - Fortune Magazine

At the least, Cirrus deserves props for finding the wonderment of West Virginia.

[bunt_q]

I will confess to having never eaten at Gold Hill Inn.

[EngiNerd]

Truly a historic gem, how could they not want to save it (he says sarcastically).

Denver7 GM: Potential historic designation endangers Denver7’s future


https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...nver7s-future?

[gopokes21]

There is actually a noteworthy tradition of brutalism in Hispanic communities and across the Americas. The above reminds me of a rougher-condition Orlando Public Library or ITESM Rectorate (Monterey) or UNAM Library (CDMX).





I know that right now, there is intense debate around preserving brutalist architecture, but I believe here in a decade we will regret not preserving more. The Channel 7 building would be a worthwhile restoration as long as someone guts the plaza level to reinforce better street interaction. I believe the current compromise proposal is allowing the REST of the site to go up to 16 (instead of 12) stories. I'm rooting for an outcome that leads to more diversity in our built environment rather than the same monotonous massing and design across ALL of Golden Triangle like peanut butter over bread, and of course I'm rooting for the height bonus up to 16 stories.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/should...t-architecture

[twister244]

Originally Posted by gopokes21

The Channel 7 building would be a worthwhile restoration as long as someone guts the plaza level to reinforce better street interaction.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/should...t-architecture

No.

If we are seriously debating the architectural merit of the Channel 7 building, it's no wonder why Denver has a NIMBY problem. There are industrial buildings in RiNo better looking than this....

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

Truly a historic gem, how could they not want to save it (he says sarcastically).

Denver7 GM: Potential historic designation endangers Denver7’s future

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...nver7s-future?

I'll readily admit to not having any architectural bona fides (H/T to Cirrus for reminding me of one of my favorite expressions) but I lol'd when I learned of this building being worthy of preservation. I think it's hideous.

Also, it's a bit of an irony that the prospective buyer Property Markets Group aka PMG, has their own architectural issues according to Sam Hill. PMG remains a partner on X Denver - but not for X Denver2. So would PMG bring their "Society" brand to this site?

In any case it's now up to Denver City Council to decide.

Originally Posted by gopokes21

There is actually a noteworthy tradition of brutalism in Hispanic communities and across the Americas. The above reminds me of a rougher-condition Orlando Public Library or ITESM Rectorate (Monterey) or UNAM Library (CDMX).





https://www.thedailybeast.com/should...t-architecture

That's an interesting read from the Daily Beast; I didn't know they carried such pieces. While you make a good case for the architecture not sure the Channel 7 building is an admiral example.

Brutalism brought concrete boxes, upside down ziggurats, fortress walls and hulking behemoths. ... Brutalist architecture seems to have drawn a hard line between those who love it and those who hate it. Many of these structures—now 40 to 60 years old—are facing uncertain futures as the two opposing viewpoints battle to decide whether the buildings should be saved or destroyed.

Here's an example of what PMG might build in its place. This is in Fort Lauderdale, FL.

Society Las Olas
301 SW 1st Ave, Fort Lauderdale, FL


Courtesy PMG via Apartments.com

I'll take the apartments.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

Truly a historic gem, how could they not want to save it (he says sarcastically).

Denver7 GM: Potential historic designation endangers Denver7’s future


https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...nver7s-future?

Every time I come wandering in here with homesickness you guys come through with things like this. I wonder if Denver will be able someday to preserve its collective stupidity for "historical" reasons.

Still homesick today though after watching last nights Avs/Blues replay, oh well.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by gopokes21

There is actually a noteworthy tradition of brutalism in Hispanic communities and across the Americas. The above reminds me of a rougher-condition Orlando Public Library or ITESM Rectorate (Monterey) or UNAM Library (CDMX).





I know that right now, there is intense debate around preserving brutalist architecture, but I believe here in a decade we will regret not preserving more. The Channel 7 building would be a worthwhile restoration as long as someone guts the plaza level to reinforce better street interaction. I believe the current compromise proposal is allowing the REST of the site to go up to 16 (instead of 12) stories. I'm rooting for an outcome that leads to more diversity in our built environment rather than the same monotonous massing and design across ALL of Golden Triangle like peanut butter over bread, and of course I'm rooting for the height bonus up to 16 stories.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/should...t-architecture

If you can't tell the difference between the actual brutalist gems you posted and the Channel 7 building turd, then there is truly no reason to argue this. 123 Speer is not an intentionally brutalist building, it just happened to be designed and built in the time when that style of architecture was "hip" and in style. It adds nothing to the built environment and this is in no way the best of it's architectural style, not in Denver, not in any city. If Ch7 owner wants to sell, they don't deserve to have it designated historical and have their ownership potential hamstrung by 3 random ass "neighbors".

The DAM Ponti building, NCAR building in Boulder, yes, hell maybe even the Fed. reserve bldg and CU engineering center and WillVille towers...but please don't let this represent the best brutalist architecture in Denver, because that's essentially what the filing is saying.

[gopokes21]

I agree that this overall parcel is 75% developable, or maybe even more.

The only contributing historic asset is the four stories of mauve waffle-grid windows. Maybe the smoothed corner, which could feature lighting, sculpture, signage, or mural.

Everything else on the block is insignificant and should be eligible for demo. You can easily build a large, full-block, staggered-massing project incorporating the corner features. Any development would likely have to stagger/alter its massing anyway a la Fitzgerald or other full-block projects.

"Community benefits" are the only way to get a density bonus over the existing zoning. Without it, this block is only going to 12 stories per the zoning.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

The DAM Ponti building, NCAR building in Boulder, yes, hell maybe even the Fed. reserve bldg and CU engineering center and WillVille towers...but please don't let this represent the best brutalist architecture in Denver, because that's essentially what the filing is saying.

Agree these are all nice buildings. While not necessarily popular I do like the Federal Reserve building. I wasn't familiar with the name 'WillVille' but definitely like the engineering building.

Side Pocket Topic

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

Every time I come wandering in here with homesickness you guys come through with things like this. I wonder if Denver will be able someday to preserve its collective stupidity for "historical" reasons.

Still homesick today though after watching last nights Avs/Blues replay, oh well.

If you ever want to watch a (free) live stream of the Avs just Go Here. You may have to click on "NHL" and then the game you want to watch. They give you a choice of feeds between Home and Away (or national). If you're ever curious about Avs blog viewpoints, then join us HERE. Ofc you have some darn good hockey in Florida with both the Panthers and the Lightening.

Always nice to see your smiling face.