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View Poll Results: Which transbay tower design scheme do you like best?
#1 Richard Rogers 40 8.05%
#2 Cesar Pelli 99 19.92%
#3 SOM 358 72.03%
Voters: 497. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1501  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2007, 7:15 AM
GlobeTrekker GlobeTrekker is offline
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Originally Posted by SFView View Post
I am no developer expert. Have the pre-911 New York WTC and San Francisco 555 California top floor restaurants proven to be a negative investment? How about an observation level at the top instead?
I would think a restaurant would do really well, at least with the tourists if not the locals. Windows on the World (WTC) was the highest grossing restaurant in the US, according to Wikipedia.

I hope Piano's towers do not get cut down at all. I want SF to have a 100th floor, and that won't happen if it gets cut (one of the diagrams somewhere had Piano's complex at 101 floors). Also, Piano's complex will be just diagonal from Transbay, so together they can "peak" the skyline. There's no reason a peak has to be just one building.
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  #1502  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2007, 3:07 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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Originally Posted by SFView View Post
I am no developer expert. Have the pre-911 New York WTC and San Francisco 555 California top floor restaurants proven to be a negative investment? How about an observation level at the top instead?
Well the Signature Room in Chicago on top of the Hancock seems to be doing well, you have to make reservations at least a week in advance to get in there. Have to do it much earlier if you want a good time.
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  #1503  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2007, 9:00 PM
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I'd rather lobby for an observation sky lobby than a restaurant. There's TOO MANY damn restaurants in this city. How many times can California Fusion be done, sheesh !!
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  #1504  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2007, 10:10 PM
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HarryBarbierSRPD HarryBarbierSRPD is offline
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Give me a restaurant!

I had the pleasure of going to both Windows On The World and the WTC observation deck, and preferred the restaurant much more. With the restaurant (and a great one at that) you had the luxury of relaxing and enjoying the view as you had delicious food/drinks/music and a comfortable chair, where with the observation deck you got to stand next to a window for a while. Yeah.

I really just hope we get ONE of those, if anything.

Last edited by HarryBarbierSRPD; Oct 27, 2007 at 7:45 AM.
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  #1505  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2007, 10:24 PM
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Is it asking too much if we could get BOTH?
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  #1506  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2007, 10:27 PM
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^ maybe for sf
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  #1507  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2007, 10:30 PM
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Ah, ha! You're so right!
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  #1508  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2007, 4:47 PM
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I'm sure there are a lot of skyscraper junkies who would like the chance to take in the view without the high price of a meal.
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  #1509  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2007, 5:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Dream'n View Post
I'm sure there are a lot of skyscraper junkies who would like the chance to take in the view without the high price of a meal.
Having a restaurant wouldn't mean you'd need to spend $$$ on a meal to enjoy the view... I like going to the Carnelian Room (restaurant atop the BofA building) and buying an inexpensive drink or small dessert to sit back and relax with their cocktail lounge's fantastic view of SF.
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  #1510  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 3:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryBarbierSRPD View Post
Having a restaurant wouldn't mean you'd need to spend $$$ on a meal to enjoy the view... I like going to the Carnelian Room (restaurant atop the BofA building) and buying an inexpensive drink or small dessert to sit back and relax with their cocktail lounge's fantastic view of SF.
If we can get an $8 elevator observation deck on little ol' Coit Tower, how about a $10 elevator to the top of the observation deck of Transbay? It would help bring in funds to the project, as well.

As long as Billdo Reilly doesn't invite another terrist attack to either tower

Last edited by tyler82; Oct 30, 2007 at 5:50 PM.
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  #1511  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 6:49 PM
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It could be more than $10. Tickets are basically $16.61 for adults to the 86th floor observatory at the Empire State Building. That's about 1050 feet up. There's another fee for going up to the 102 floor. Perhaps by the time Transbay is up, the fee there could be more than $20, if it is offered. It looks like they don't allow bags or luggage at ESB, but they do encourage cameras.
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  #1512  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2007, 5:45 PM
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From:
http://www.archpaper.com/news/CA/2007_1024b.htm
Quote:
10.24.2007

To the Highest Bidder


Courtesy Pelli Clarke Pelli / TJPA

The night of August 6 couldn’t have been a more exciting one for San Franciscans. Thousands watched as they saw their vested interests realized in the form of three ambitious design and development schemes for a new Transbay Transit Center and Tower located on a 12-acre site in the city’s South of Market district. A considerable improvement over the existing Transbay Terminal, a drab and inefficient facility built in 1939, the new 1 million-square-foot transit center will serve local and regional buses, and in future stages, a high-speed rail line connecting San Francisco and Los Angeles. Surpassing the iconic Transamerica pyramid not not faraway, Transbay will be the tallest tower on the West Coast.

That night at City Hall, proposals unveiled by Rogers Stirk Harbour & Partners (RSHP), Skidmore, Owings & Merrill (SOM), and Pelli Clarke Pelli showed the potential for architectural innovation to sit alongside—not destroy—the city’s legacy of historic preservation. Each scheme had a striking newness to it, and it seemed as if the Transbay Joint Powers Authority (TJPA), the governing body behind the design and development competition, could not go wrong in choosing any of the three.


Courtesy SOM/TJPA


Proposals by SOM, top, and Rogers Stirk Harbour, above, included a hotel and condos, while Pelli’s is an office-only building. Courtesy Rogers Stirk Harbour & partners / TJPA

Fast forward to September 10, when the competition jury announced its recommendation of Pelli Clarke Pelli to the TJPA. In the jury’s statement, one message was loud and clear: by outbidding the other teams by nearly $200 million, the team of Hines and Pelli Clarke Pelli had made the TJPA a financial offer it could not refuse.

In a press release posted on TJPA’s website, the nine-person jury, which included local architects, engineers, planners, transit experts, and critics, issued the following statement: “The Pelli/Hines design for the Transit Center and Tower best met the TJPA’s operational, functional, and aesthetic requirements, and Hines’ offer of a purchase price [$350 million] for the Tower property was significantly higher than the offers by the other teams.” Although there had been surprisingly little discussion about the design-driven aspects of the winning proposal on September 20, the TJPA board voted unanimously in favor of the jury’s recommendation.

In design terms it remains to be seen if and how the Pelli/Hines proposal trumps the other schemes. A Peter Walker-designed park will top the glass and steel terminal’s roof, creating a tension between the apparent lightness of the building and the weight of the park, which includes grass swales and trees. A series of “light columns” will bring daylight into the terminal and connect commuters to the more leisurely atmosphere above. The adjacent 1200-foot tower will have a rectilinear base that tapers into a slightly conical form at the peak, topped by wind turbines, one of many green strategies incorporated into the project.

Unlike the other two proposals, which called for mixed-use towers including a hotel, offices, and condominiums, the Pelli/Hines proposal calls for an office-only tower. The single-use scheme is projected to be much more profitable than a mixed-use tower, although some argue that a mixed-use tower could enhance the project’s benefit to the public by providing a 24-hour draw to the 19-acre site.


The entrance to the transit center by Pelli. Courtesy Pelli Clarke Pelli / TJPA

Even with such financial surety, there are no guarantees that Hines’ bottom-line approach for the tower will buy the best design for it— or for the transit terminal. It’s of course still early in the design process, but, pointed out San Francisco Chronicle critic John King, “the Transbay design isn’t ‘just right.’ It’s just OK.” Still, Gabriel Metcalf, executive director of the San Francisco Planning and Urban Research Association (SPUR), remains optimistic about the potential for the project’s symbolic value: “There’s an old Renaissance idea that the tallest building in your community should express your value system. Transbay is a modern take on that idea, as it will mark the city’s commitment to public transit and a more sustainable form of urbanism.”

Julie Kim
Not much new here, but Julie Kim of The Architects Newspaper apparently agrees along with John King that Pelli's competition design is "just OK." I also agree. I would still like to see better.
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  #1513  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2007, 9:03 PM
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HarryBarbierSRPD HarryBarbierSRPD is offline
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Solid article. Did I mention how pissed I am that the Pelli tower won't have a hotel or even condos? The best I can hope for is working with/knowing someone who as an office in there someday...

There had better be AT LEAST an observation deck...
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  #1514  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2007, 10:53 PM
BTinSF BTinSF is offline
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^^^I'm hoping you have a shot at both (a hotel and condos) in the Piano building across the street which could easily be much more architecturally interesting anyway.
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  #1515  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2007, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinSF View Post
^^^I'm hoping you have a shot at both (a hotel and condos) in the Piano building across the street which could easily be much more architecturally interesting anyway.
That's exactly what I'm hoping for too, BT. I'm just afraid that these developers aren't so excited about building mixed used towers... The trend in the neighborhood seems to be either all office or all residential (condos and hotels)
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  #1516  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2007, 12:14 AM
BTinSF BTinSF is offline
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The developer of the Piano building has said he wants a hotel in the building and there'll have to be more than that because it'll be a good-sized building.
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  #1517  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2007, 2:12 AM
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While the prospect of having a hotel or hotels around this area is definetly a positive, I'm hoping that these calls will be answered by major luxury hotel chains such as Shangri-La, among others. Seems like we could use more 5-star hotels.
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  #1518  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2007, 3:13 AM
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^^^Why do you say that? We've got Mandarin Oriental, Ritz Carlton, 4 Seasons, St. Regis and, as I posted elsewhere, the St. Francis is talking about converting rooms facing Union Square to "the highest priced rooms in SF". I personally would like to see a Peninsula and/or Shangri-La but I can't say there's a market for them without seeing some market research. And you could be sure the hotel companies would want to see it before considering the market.
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  #1519  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2007, 5:49 AM
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Well, I havent done any research myself. The last I heard, the vacancy rates were heading down and it looked like we were recovering from a few years ago. This led me to hope that perhaps with all the recent proposals in the works, we would hear new word from others like Sofitel or even Bloomingdale, proposals that never went through after the economy soured.
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  #1520  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2007, 7:59 AM
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HarryBarbierSRPD HarryBarbierSRPD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTinSF View Post
The developer of the Piano building has said he wants a hotel in the building and there'll have to be more than that because it'll be a good-sized building.
That's good news, BT
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