Canadian Fiscal Policy

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Anybody care to take financial advice from someone who so eagerly promoted bitcoin as a financial solution? If so, please send me a PM, because I have a bridge to sell you.

When you say "Please send me a PM", did you mean Poilievre?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Wallets such as Crypto.com, you can get a VISA/VISA debit card that lets you spend on goods and services from your crypto assets.

Did you read the article associated with the photo? People have to sell their crypto and load dollars onto the card. You could do the same thing with any credit or debit card.

[LightingGuy]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

This is the 5th time that Bitcoin has crashed. However, we can’t ignore that after every crash so far that Bitcoin (and the rest of crypto for that matter) have rebounded and reached all-time highs after every crash. Of course past performance has no indicator of future success, but it is something that should be considered regarding the extreme volatility of cryptos both positively and at the moment negatively.

Also, I do believe that Canada will start implementing some sort of digital currency because that’s where the technology is headed, but it won’t be backed by Bitcoin rather it’ll be backed by the state like all currencies are.

In terms of crypto specifically I’m much more intrigued by Ethereum then Bitcoin.

This is generally my stance as well. The one major flaw in the history is that it's all very recent and happened exclusively during the longest bull market of our lives. This is the first recession that Bitcoin is up against, so we'll see what happens. Previously Bitcoin would always skyrocket each time the supply halves, but we'll see if that pattern holds up during a recession.

What makes you more intrigued by Ethereum?

[SteelTown]

I use Newton.co, which is a Canadian crypto trading platform. You can trade your crypto assets via Interac e-transfer, which Canadians sure do love.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by LightingGuy

What makes you more intrigued by Ethereum?

Mostly that it has already proven to act as a currency for the NFT market, has a lot of other Alt coins under its system, and the transition from proof of work (mining) to proof of stake will reduce emissions of Ethereum by 99%. This will also tackle the main issue it’s having which is absurd gas fees.

I also view Vitalik Buterin as a very competent person

[LightingGuy]

deleted

[LightingGuy]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

I use Newton.co, which is a Canadian crypto trading platform. You can trade your crypto assets via Interac e-transfer, which Canadians sure do love.

I'll look into it, thank you

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Mostly that it has already proven to act as a currency for the NFT market, has a lot of other Alt coins under its system, and the transition from proof of work (mining) to proof of stake will reduce emissions of Ethereum by 99%. This will also tackle the main issue it’s having which is absurd gas fees.

I also view Vitalik Buterin as a very competent person

I agree about Ethereum being able to used more as a currency - I like that it isn't hard-capped, which means it won't deflate over time. Do you think proof of stake is as secure as proof of work?

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by LightingGuy

I agree about Ethereum being able to used more as a currency - I like that it isn't hard-capped, which means it won't deflate over time. Do you think proof of stake is as secure as proof of work?

Imo it should be more secure then proof of work because staking is either done by single staking (requires 32 Eth) and pooled staking. Here's how it ensures security:

In proof-of-stake, validators explicitly stake capital in the form of ether into a smart contract on Ethereum. This staked ether then acts as collateral that can be destroyed if the validator behaves dishonestly or lazily. The validator is then responsible for checking that new blocks propagated over the network are valid and occasionally creating and propagating new blocks themselves.

So essentially bad actors will be disposed of accordingly in pooled stakes, but there is still risk if someone in the party holds the majority of Eth. However, consider holding 51% of Eth in a large pool is nearly impossible which means the larger the pool is the harder it is to mess around with it. I think the biggest pool for staking atm is Rocket Pool.

Here's some more links for Proof of Stake info from the Ethereum website if you're interested to learn more about it.

https://ethereum.org/en/developers/d...echanisms/pos/

https://ethereum.org/en/staking/

[LightingGuy]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Imo it should be more secure then proof of work because staking is either done by single staking (requires 32 Eth) and pooled staking. Here's how it ensures security:


So essentially bad actors will be disposed of accordingly in pooled stakes, but there is still risk if someone in the party holds the majority of Eth. However, consider holding 51% of Eth in a large pool is nearly impossible which means the larger the pool is the harder it is to mess around with it. I think the biggest pool for staking atm is Rocket Pool.

Here's some more links for Proof of Stake info from the Ethereum website if you're interested to learn more about it.

https://ethereum.org/en/developers/d...echanisms/pos/

https://ethereum.org/en/staking/

Thanks for the info, I will definitely take a look!

[Hali87]

I agree with most of the problems that have been pointed out with Bitcoin - another is that while transactions are relatively quick (compared to, say, gold), they aren't instant, and generally they can take up to 20 minutes (possibly longer, I forget). This is a disadvantage compared to, say, credit or debit cards. For some types of transactions this isn't really a problem but it's hard to picture this ever being truly practical in most retail settings for example. There isn't really a simple way of making it faster without drastically changing the way its blockchain works. This is a problem inherent to Bitcoin but not necessarily inherent to all crypto.

I think that Ethereum is interesting as a sort of 2nd-gen blockchain/coin and while it has its own set of problems (the volatile and often very high trading fees being a main one) it hints at the direction things seem to be heading - blockchains and tokens with functions other than simple financial transactions.

I think that within the next few years we'll see more practical/"actually useful" uses of blockchain technology emerge, and I think Bitcoin will remain a thing mostly as a sort of bridge between fiat currencies/banks and other blockchains that perform useful functions.

In the meantime I do think the federal government needs to get going and create some clear policies around crypto and that these should be written by a team that has a solid understanding of both the economic and technological sides of it. Right now, for example, it's very complicated to even try to declare anything crypto-related during tax season (there's no real framework to do so), and there are very few (if any) consequences to not declaring it, so most people just don't bother.

On the other hand I think that anything along the lines of "making it illegal to buy or sell crypto in Canada" would be politically disastrous in the current era, would drive away a lot of the young talent that we're trying to attract/retain, and would effectively lock Canada out of the still-developing blockchain sector. I think if the Libs tried to introduce such a policy it would basically be a recipe for PM Poilievre, winning a majority on a platform of "getting rid of the tyrannical crypto ban".

[Hali87]

It seems that in the face of a recession, something that Canada could do that would address some (not all) of the current problems would be to open up some federal/crown lands to housing development, and pour money into this as both a make-work project (construction jobs, but also other jobs along the supply chain) and as a way of rapidly increasing the modern-but-affordable (or even just "available") housing supply. They could give away the land for free or lease it for very cheap. Ideally I'd love to see something like Habitat for Humanity on a large scale, where people involved in the construction could be awarded with a unit after X number of hours of work put in.

(I mean this in addition to what was promised in the last election, which did not seem like enough to me at the time, and doesn't seem to have had any real impact so far)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by LightingGuy

https://seekingalpha.com/article/410...tility-lessons

Interestingly, if you only take the last few years (right half of the graph), which isn't an illogical or obviously cherrypicked choice, the trend (red line) will go the other way.

Also, it's worth pointing out that your graph stops a full five years ago! Which is a few eternities ago, in the bitcoin world. How about a graph that covers the past few years? (I'm neutral in this, I don't even know in advance what it would show, but I DO know that it's the freshest data that matters, whatever it says!)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Also, that 1% figure itself is subject to substantial debate. Cryptobros love to low ball because being the preferred transaction medium of trans national criminals and terrorists is a bad look to potential greater fools.

Exactly. I've argued this regularly on this forum regarding everything shadowy -- idiots with an agenda typically won't admit that undetected stuff is undetected. It's totally contradictory to claim we have super-precise data on phenomena that are by our own admission off the radar. We can only guesstimate and the margins of error are gigantic.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by lio45

Also, it's worth pointing out that your graph stops a full five years ago! Which is a few eternities ago, in the bitcoin world. How about a graph that covers the past few years? (I'm neutral in this, I don't even know in advance what it would show, but I DO know that it's the freshest data that matters, whatever it says!)

The graph conveniently stops just before Bitcoin's value began doubling and tripling y/y.

July 2017 ~$2,700 (all USD)
July 2018 ~$7,000
July 2019 ~$9,000
July 2020 ~$9,000
July 2021 ~$30,000
July 2022 ~ entering at $20,000

The reason why BTC is crazy is because five years ago each was worth under $1K (and in 2016 could be bought for as low as $265), and the price increased to as high as $65K last year. There's plenty of stories of people trading multiple BTCs for, like, pizza delivery prior to 2015.

[lio45]

Actually, turns out I was correct when commenting that while his graph shows Bitcoin's volatility going down from ~2013 to ~2015, it went UP from ~2015 to ~2017... you can see this much more clearly in a volatily graph designed to erase those local peaks:

https://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/...=15&st=log&t=l

AND you can also see that bitcoin's volatility has continued to go up since then.

[ssiguy]

When discussing Bitcoin, we have to go back to the basic question........what is a currency?

A currency is simply a medium of exchange. If someone sells you a TV, you pay them with a currency. The currency that you receive in exchange for the TV allow you to purchase other goods or services whether that be a home, food, or a drink at the local bar. It has values because it is universally accepted and, just as importantly, people believe it has value.

By this basic definition, Bitcoin is not a currency because it cannot be universally traded for a good, service, or even another currency. Bitcoin is nothing more than a private company that offers stock of no value who's entire business model revolves around nothing more than buying a worthless piece of digital paper hoping that another person will come along and purchase that worthless piece of digital paper for more than you did and so on...............it's a classic ponzi-scheme and nothing more.

If your average person decided to start their own such company the Central Banks would close you down for such an illegal activity but when rich people do it it's called entrepreneurship.

[lio45]

It's not yet fully "a currency" but could become one. That's precisely what the discussion is about.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lio45

It's not yet fully "a currency" but could become one. That's precisely what the discussion is about.

Not happening at current rate of acceptance. Even the whole digital bit sucks. Think of tap and pay that requires 10-20s to validate. That would never be acceptable. Would be downright impractical for high volume places like transit fare gates.

[LightingGuy]

Originally Posted by lio45

Actually, turns out I was correct when commenting that while his graph shows Bitcoin's volatility going down from ~2013 to ~2015, it went UP from ~2015 to ~2017... you can see this much more clearly in a volatily graph designed to erase those local peaks:

https://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/...=15&st=log&t=l

AND you can also see that bitcoin's volatility has continued to go up since then.

I tried finding a more recent graph, but they're hard to find in percentage terms. The link you posted appears to be in NET terms, so as the price moves up obviously the daily changes in terms of dollars are also going to go up. The one that matters is the daily percentage change. It's hard to find a recent one though.. might have to make one myself.

[WarrenC12]

Visa and Mastercard process billions of transactions a day, almost instantly. The cost to them is fractions of a penny. They can process transactions in hundreds(?) of currencies.

Crypto has a near impossible hill to climb to compete with this.