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Originally Posted by urbandreamer
Regina is a grown up Brandon, or 1980s London? I really liked both cities, although Saskatoon impressed me more. North end Saskatoon is very agricultural, like North Kamloops. Saskatoon overall reminds me of (1950s?) Toronto: vibrant downtown, residential streetcar suburbs with commercial strips. Brandon and Lethbridge very similar: grid downtown with great housing stock.
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Brandon and Lethbridge aren't that similar. Lethbridge is bigger (like twice the size), its university is too (and is located much further from the core), has totally different topography (dry, barren, hilly vs flat parkland). The only area they have some
superficial similarity is in what you describe, which makes me wonder if your experience with both is through Google Maps. The vibe of Downtown Lethbridge is pretty different and it has a lot more going on. DT Lethbridge is anchored by the city's only mall and all the amenities that avails, DT Brandon has a dead mall akin to Portage Place. Lethbridge's core is busier and has more shops, restaurants, bars, and amenities. Brandon's has some impressive architecture but is pretty run-down by comparison. Lethbridge's economy is a lot healthier and the area is growing much faster too.
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Winnipeg's Canadian twin is Edmonton: capital city ambition, ragged dumpy downtown, endless tree-lined residential neighborhoods, the river etc.
I also was surprised by Swift Current - the Revelstoke of the Prairies?
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As someone extremely familiar with both Edmonton and Winnipeg, having lived in both, I do agree that there's a lot of similarities between the two, but not really in the ways that you describe and I would never describe either as twins. I'm guessing you haven't spent a lot of time in either because even for myself, I found the similarities greater initially, although they still felt distinctive in their own right. You don't get the weird doppelganger stuff that Edmonton and Calgary have.
What exactly is capital city ambition? Because I don't think either city has it. Edmonton has some ambition, but Winnipeg is probably the least ambitious city west of Ontario. They don't think big there, or at least they haven't since the Perimeter opened. Nearly every idea feels watered down and dull compared to what comes out of Alberta's cities, if there is even an idea at all.
I don't think Edmonton's ambition is related to being the capital. In fact, the city had about 25 unambitious years until about a dozen years ago. It was arguably in this period that Edmonton and Winnipeg were most alike, through the 1990s and 2000s. Edmonton's ambition, at least since the Second World War, comes from it being in Alberta and the bold culture that permeates (though is significantly stronger in Calgary) due to the oil industry. You see Alberta thinking a lot more boldly after the Leduc No. 1 discovery in '47 and by the 1970s it seemed like both Calgary and Edmonton were on crack due to the oil boom. Peace River could've been Alberta's capital and Edmonton still would've held the Commonwealth Games, built WEM, and erected the tallest building outside of Toronto.
Edmonton tries, but it often misses the mark. Winnipeg doesn't even try and feels content maintaining its status quo. I think that's the way I'd sum up the status of "ambition" in either city.
I wouldn't call either city's downtown a dump (ok, maybe I would call Edmonton's that as hyperbole for how far it's fallen through covid), but you're right to criticize them. Neither is particularly vibrant, despite recent investments. But they look very different. There is no Exchange District in Edmonton and the kinds of boutiques and such it offers doesn't really have a Downtown Edmonton equivalent, although 104th Street sure tries. There's no Forks, Broadway, Union Station, or Riverwalk equivalent either in Downtown Edmonton. Portage Place is a bit better than City Centre in terms of dead downtown malls, but it's close and 5 years ago, City Centre was doing better out of the two. Edmonton's Portage & Main equivalent, Jasper and 101st, is open to pedestrians and both of Downtown Winnipeg's main roads make Jasper Ave look like a quaint cobblestone street in a small French city. Edmonton's new downtown arena seems to be doing more than Winnipeg's, despite covid.
Winnipeg is smaller and
feels it too. There just aren't as many amenities as Edmonton has and its palpable when living there. Winnipeg has the Shield and Edmonton has the Rockies for recreational opportunities, but the things people do are quite different. People don't hike in Manitoba, they're on a boat in one of the thousands of lakes the province has. Despite being and feeling smaller, there's a very obvious historic grandeur to Winnipeg that Edmonton lacks. Winnipeg is significantly older than everything west of it excluding cities that start with a V on the coast. Edmonton is incredibly new looking and feeling by comparison, which is probably one of its weaknesses, whereas Winnipeg's oldness is probably its greatest asset. Regardless, this fundamental difference in urbanism makes both cities pretty distinct.
The youth and art scenes are a bit different too. Winnipeg feels more "alternative" and is full of wannabe '90s indie rockers. It's not like these kinds of people don't exist in Edmonton, but their social spaces aren't as prominent and the vibe doesn't pervade as strongly. I mean, Alberta's premier indie music festival isn't even in Edmonton, it's in Calgary. I think Edmonton had more of this in the past, but I was too young to be involved in it. The young people in Edmonton seem less punk now, and more aspirational, leaning towards glossier things. It's little things. In Edmonton, trendy ice cream places like Kind and Yelo'd have become a big deal for 20-somethings come spring whereas in Winnipeg you have classic ice cream institutions like Sargent Sundae and Bridge Drive-In. There's still trendy-bougie ice cream spots in Winnipeg, but they don't figure as prominently. These differences are subtle and not something you easily pick up on, but there seems to be a stronger bourgeois element in Edmonton that influences the local culture, including youth and arts. Politically, even though Edmonton is the more leftist hub for Alberta, Winnipeg is more leftist. Both have seen an uptick in radical, grassroots organizing, but it seems much more developed in Winnipeg. There's also a lot more postering and graffiti for political messaging than in Edmonton.
Winnipeg's transportation planning is abysmal, even if its infill tends to look nicer. There's no highways, so the main streets are turned into the worst stroads you've ever seen. The city is a bunch of different municipalities rammed together with their own street layouts, so nothing really meshes like Edmonton's giant and roomy grid. Winnipeg has probably the worst public transit system of the "major" Canadian cities (though I have no experience with Quebec City's system) and there's not much attempt to make it better. Edmonton already has an LRT system, which it's rapidly expanding, is looking into BRT, and the buses generally run on time. Also despite all the rivers and creeks, Winnipeg seriously lacks bridges.
And the rivers? I mean, they both have rivers, but so does Calgary and Montreal, doesn't mean those two are tied at the hip. I get that both Edmonton and Winnipeg have rivers play heavily into the identity of the city and are major sites of recreation, but the way its done is totally different. Winnipeg is flatter than a pancake and so there's no generous river valley like Edmonton has, which is a bigger deal than the river itself there. But this flatness means you have the Forks, the River Walk, and generally a more accessible riverfront than Edmonton could ever hope to get. Winnipeg also has like 4 rivers (5 if you wanna include the floodway) to Edmonton's 1. Winnipeg does have a lot of big parks along the Red and Assiniboine, but its not this uninterrupted "ribbon of green" with extensive trails like Edmonton's river valley.
Winnipeg is older and smaller, Edmonton is bigger and newer. Edmonton has ambition whereas Winnipeg is content with the status quo. Winnipeg is more "alternative" whereas Edmonton is more of a misguided "aspirational" place. There's still a lot of similarities and vibes and whatnot, but because of all these differences, they could never be seen as twins.
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