Palm Trees of Canada

[giallo]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

reboot time!

recently drove by this house in Stoney Creek and noticed they had a windmill palm out front. Streetview seems to indicate that it's been there since at least 2007. I wonder if it's protected in the winter, I'll have to drive by next winter and see.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2090...7i13312!8i6656

I really wonder if it's possible for hardy windmill palms to survive in the Niagara / Windsor areas. They most likely could have survived this past winter completely unprotected.

They could last for a few years if the winters are mild enough, but all it takes is a single cold snap of temperatures below -10 for a couple of days in a row, and that'll be it. Mature windmill palms are more hardy, but it takes a good ten years before they can handle temperatures below -10, and even then, they can't handle those temperatures for too long.

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

reboot time!

recently drove by this house in Stoney Creek and noticed they had a windmill palm out front. Streetview seems to indicate that it's been there since at least 2007. I wonder if it's protected in the winter, I'll have to drive by next winter and see.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2090...7i13312!8i6656

I really wonder if it's possible for hardy windmill palms to survive in the Niagara / Windsor areas. They most likely could have survived this past winter completely unprotected.

Where is the ultimate warmest section of the microclimate along the southern shore of Lake Ontario? I have wondered if windmill palms and other plants could survive winters there. Specifically, I have wondered if anyone has tried to get a crape myrtle to survive in a place like Niagara-On-The-Lake. I have seen crape myrtle as far north as King Of Prussia, PA, and Woodbury, NJ. I'm sure it's a little farther north than that. Crape myrtle can be found just about everywhere as a decorative plant here in Delaware, and is even more extensive when you get into Virginia. All of these areas are humid subtropical climates, but I wonder if the microclimate on the southern side of Lake Ontario functions as a humid subtropical climate. I have seen tons of canna plants used for decoration and color and patterns in Victoria Park in Niagara Falls. Those can grow here in Delaware, provided they are planted 4 inches under the surface. So to me, that is evidence of a humid subtropical subclimate (see below).

Not to take away from Canada as the subject, but I planted a windmill palm tree at my house. To provide optimal conditions, I have it in the front yard, about 6-7 feet away from the house. My house is made of brick and stone (so may reflect heat) and faces south. The palm tree survived this past winter with no problem at all and no protection, but then again, we had our lowest snowfall total ever, with only 0.9 inches (2.3 cm) for the entire season. Windmill palms are the only palm trees hardy enough for Delaware, pr so I'm told by the owner of the store I got my palm tree from. I also have a banana palm that should survive the winter, but the first one I got rotted out. I don't know if that was from a mistake that I made, though, or because the plant couldn't take it. Other banana palms around here die and come back to life in May. I have a few mango canna plants, like what I saw in Niagara Falls, and those survived the winter here.

[SpongeG]

in Burnaby under the skytrain in the median is a nice row of palms

2020-09-04_11-08-39 by snub_you, on Flickr

[MonctonRad]

Behold the only palm tree in Moncton, New Brunswick, located on the plaza in front of the 8,800 seat Avenir Centre hockey arena.



Yes, the Hyatt Place Hotel is missing an "H", but the hotel is still under construction, and sign installation was underway when I snapped the photo.

[bossabreezes]

Pardon my ignorance, but isn't Coastal East Coast Canada way too cold for any palm species., even the hardy ones?

I know the West Coast of Canada is much milder and can support a few species. Most people don't know that, so I'm glad this thread has shown people that. Even Seattle can support a few species!

[MonctonRad]

They are certainly pushing the envelope here, yes.

The palm trees in Halifax are currently boxed in place in the wintertime for protection. So far it seems to be working, with the hope being that once the trees are a little more mature, that they might be able to stand the wintertime cold stress. Moncton is further inland, and colder than Halifax, so I'm not sure what the plan is for this particular decorative palm. It appears to be a miniature, so it could be possible they plan on taking it indoors in the wintertime.

In either event, I am not really sure what they are trying to prove here. I find the palm trees in both Halifax and Moncton to be amusing. Kinda the ultimate form of Canadian denial regarding our climate.

It should be noted though that the coastal areas of eastern Canada have hardiness zones similar to northeastern areas of the US. (Moncton - zone 5a/b, Halifax - zone 6)

[someone123]

Atlantic coastal NS is within the hardiness range of the hardiest palms. Some weather stations in NS have -20 C or so as their all-time low and have high temperatures above freezing year-round. The Halifax Dockyard station hasn't hit -20 since they started collecting data there in 2004. I think the coldest last winter was -15. NS is a bit colder overall compared to the US Northeast but also a bit more marine influenced. A cold snap of the kind that will kill palms doesn't necessarily hit NS any harder than Boston or NYC even though the mean is lower.

The biggest threat to the palms in NS is probably wind damage and freeze-thaw, not temperatures.

A lot of maps distort latitudes and give a false impression of how far north NS is. The southern tip of NS is 43.5N, which is a Southern Ontario latitude or into Oregon on the west coast. You also sometimes see people basing their assessments of hardiness on weather stations like YHZ which is nowhere near the most favourable microclimate in NS.

I'm happy that people are trying out new plants. Another thing that's changing is the climate is getting a bit warmer over time so experiments in the 2020's might be different from say the 1970's.

[Nouvellecosse]

Those poor trees. I know it's not like they're sentient or anything but it almost seems abusive.

[itom 987]

Queen Charlotte Island should be able to grow palm trees, even the southern tip of Alaska.

[Metro-One]

That palm in Moncton will need some serious attention during the winter, that one especially seems to be pushing the envelope.

I wonder if it is even outside year round.

The windmill palm may be able to survive in several locations in Canada with intensive care through the winter but the South Coast of BC still remains the only area where you can plant one in your yard, forget about it, and it will still survive and even bear fruit and in the mildest locations self seed. In other words, it’s the only area in Canada where they are not just hanging on to survival.

[Citizen_Bane]

Palm Hydroston Summer 20202 1 by Citizen Bane, on Flickr

Palm Hydrostone Summer 2020 2 by Citizen Bane, on Flickr
Looks like we have a messy weather week ahead but spring is just around the corner and we'll be back out in our gardens again soon. I've pasted in below a pic of fresh greens that I harvested from my backyard Halifax garden on January 19, 2021. This is a record late harvest for me personally. Last year's final harvest of greens was December 14th. BUT, because I'm usually south by xMas perhaps a later harvest could have been had last year too. Kale and collards are pretty sturdy greens. The plants went into the garden in April, first harvest was in May. No protection.



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...de1e4d3a_m.jpg

These next two pics are of a garden in the Hydrostone area of Halifax. The palm is boxed this time of year as I noted the last time I drove by. I have two windmill palms of my own out in the yard. They're just three years old now and still quite small. Last year I uncovered them on March 12th.



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...7e3b7874_m.jpg



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d5319fb0_m.jpg

[CaliNative]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

I really dislike the idea of palm trees in Canada. It just seems so unnatural and doesn't go with the landscape/architecture in any way.

What about cactus? There are cactus in Canada, even a desert in British Columbia. Osoyos area. Prickly pear cactus are common... If somebody can show me Saguaro cactus growing in B.C. I'd be really impressed. In Toronto, amazed. Not Winnipeg-- impossible! By the way, prickly pear cactus also grow in unexpected areas in the U.S., near Chicago for example on the Indiana dunes. There might even be cactus in New England, on Cape Cod for example. By the way..palm trees and cactus are NOT native to L.A.. the nearest natives are out in the desert near Palm Springs. The most typical native vegetation is chaparral shrubland and scattered oak woodland in damper places. Spiky yuccas are native to the area in the brushy areas, but I'm not sure if they are "cactus".

[itom 987]

You will even find Cactus in the dry areas of southern Alberta.

[TownGuy]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

What about cactus? There are cactus in Canada, even a desert in British Columbia. Osoyos area. Prickly pear cactus are common... If somebody can show me Saguaro cactus growing in B.C. I'd be really impressed. In Toronto, amazed. Not Winnipeg-- impossible! By the way, prickly pear cactus also grow in unexpected areas in the U.S., near Chicago for example on the Indiana dunes. There might even be cactus in New England, on Cape Cod for example. By the way..palm trees and cactus are NOT native to L.A.. the nearest natives are out in the desert near Palm Springs. The most typical native vegetation is chaparral shrubland and scattered oak woodland in damper places. Spiky yuccas are native to the area in the brushy areas, but I'm not sure if they are "cactus".

Prickly Pear are native to Southern Ontario on the north shore of Lake Erie. Their biggest obstacle is habitat destruction.

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

What about cactus? There are cactus in Canada, even a desert in British Columbia. Osoyos area. Prickly pear cactus are common... If somebody can show me Saguaro cactus growing in B.C. I'd be really impressed. In Toronto, amazed. Not Winnipeg-- impossible! By the way, prickly pear cactus also grow in unexpected areas in the U.S., near Chicago for example on the Indiana dunes. There might even be cactus in New England, on Cape Cod for example. By the way..palm trees and cactus are NOT native to L.A.. the nearest natives are out in the desert near Palm Springs. The most typical native vegetation is chaparral shrubland and scattered oak woodland in damper places. Spiky yuccas are native to the area in the brushy areas, but I'm not sure if they are "cactus".

I'm pretty sure I've seen prickly pear cactus plants on Cape Cod. I have an uncle there and walk to the beach, and I'm certain I've seen them growing in some of the naturally sandy gardens.

We have lots of prickly pear cactus plants on the land side of the little sand dunes down here in Delaware.

[CanadianCentaur]

Originally Posted by itom 987

You will even find Cactus in the dry areas of southern Alberta.

And even in the Peace region, too. I know there are cacti growing in certain spots like the Kleskun Hills not far from Grande Prairie. They are also known even farther north as around Dunvegan in the Peace River valley.

[202_Cyclist]

It isn't Canada but I saw this palm tree in Bridgeport, CT, yesterday. We received about a half inch of snow yesterday morning.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

I have bad news about the Nova Scotia palms.

It Might Be The End Of Dartmouth’s Palm Trees – It Looks Like They Didn’t Survive The Winter

[mrnyc]

^ i’m shocked. shocked!

waiting for the kowloon thread bump …

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

There's been no need to put a lid on my outdoor palms so far this winter. The palm pictured below just started to develop a trunk this past summer and is perhaps two/thirds the size of the potted palms of the same age that I bring inside for the winter. Regarding the now deceased Dartmouth palms, I'm not surprised that they didn't survive given where they were sourced...Montreal. Obviously the seed stock didn't come from palms grown outdoors in Montreal. Trees grown from seed sourced on Canada's west coast would have had a better chance. My seed stock came from Nanimo and all of my five trees seem robust. Two are outdoors.


20230101_133240_HDR by AJ Forsythe, on Flickr

20230101_133300_HDR by AJ Forsythe, on Flickr