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  #17361  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2020, 3:31 PM
gymratmanaz gymratmanaz is offline
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Just rode my bike over. SO SORRY FOR THEIR LOSS!!!!
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  #17362  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2020, 9:15 PM
Wildcats Wildcats is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combusean View Post
Story time!

Phoenix was never a port city or anything like that, it was picked as the center of a fairly large agricultural area when it was founded--homesteads stretched very very far around the area the townsite in 1900. Thomas Rd was considered North Phoenix in 1950--the pre-war population in Phoenix was very small compared to other established cities which is why downtown is small but it was bustling in its day and on its death knell for many years after Park Central was built. Streetcars meandered around as far as 20th St, 19th Ave, an interurban to Glendale, lines like that. But they didn't survive the post war economy as the larger area suburbanized.

North Central Avenue was basically stately mansions that started to come down in the 1960s. Then, an urban renewal trend starting with county and city government buildings and later commercial buildings in the 1970s hit downtown, but it really wasn't sustained and the immediate area looked like a large nuclear bomb went off around 1980 as white flight and later the open air crack markets ravaged the central city. Phoenix wasn't that great a place to live, it was crime ridden and corrupt during this period.

Around then, and for a while, Downtown wasn't really looked at like a mixed use urban neighborhood but an anti-urban office and government district surrounded by a collection of single uses like parking garages, convention centers, arenas, stadiums, that sort of thing. It would serve a daytime population and a nighttime population but not both if that makes sense.

That was pretty much the case until 2004 or so and the urban renewal continued with ASU and the biomedical stuff landing downtown. Although there were a few signature developments like Post Roosevelt Square or whatever it it is today, what was a ghost town or gay/affordable housing ghetto had normies actually begin to want to live in the area, and although little was built during condomania preceding the Great Recession, downtown started to finally pick up.

To answer your question, opportunity zone tax credits are behind most of the dozen+ cranes in the sky today, an unexpected thing I've been waiting for for most of the last 20 years that has pretty much turned the place around within the last five years and will put a huge population downtown and further development.
Excellent history of downtown Phoenix - the last few decades. I would add - that the University of Arizona help drive the recent growth of the Biomedical center. The biomedical campus is an important part of the recent downtown growth. It was the UofA committing to open a medical school campus in downtown Phoenix - that helped the biomedical get off the ground. It was an embarrassment for asu not to be able to open a medical school in their own backyard (many loops schools have to go through - and asu would not have been able to qualify for a medical school). Around 2004, the UofA agreed to partner with asu - having asu play a role in the UofA's medical school -downtown Phoenix. The UofA is the only school in the country to have two separate medical schools. It didn't work out - asu realizing that they would still have no medical school - so, that ended that partnership. asu instead has partnered with the new Mayo Clinic medical school - that med students from Mayo can also earn a Masters from asu in hospital management - or, something like that. Interesting, how myths - ignorance - the press, etc., can distort. Years ago, I was receiving e-blasts/e-news (still do) from the realtor that owns the Urban Connection (a downtown Phoenix realtor). He kept stating "...asu's new downtown medical school..." Finally, I e-mailed him - to correct him. The guy is right there downtown! He did respond to me and was so shocked and surprised after checking and doing some quick research. I don't believe that there is any mistake now which school has the medical school - drive down on 7th Street from Roosevelt towards Van Buren - and it is pretty clear with the large signage on the buildings.
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  #17363  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 1:07 AM
DesertRay DesertRay is offline
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Originally Posted by Wildcats View Post
It was an embarrassment for asu not to be able to open a medical school in their own backyard (many loops schools have to go through - and asu would not have been able to qualify for a medical school). Around 2004, the UofA agreed to partner with asu - having asu play a role in the UofA's medical school -downtown Phoenix. The UofA is the only school in the country to have two separate medical schools. It didn't work out - asu realizing that they would still have no medical school - so, that ended that partnership. asu instead has partnered with the new Mayo Clinic medical school - that med students from Mayo can also earn a Masters from asu in hospital management - or, something like that.
ABOR really drives this, and there is no way in hell Arizona is going to let two schools think they can drive the medical bus. The U of A has both the flagship and land grant designation, so the partnership that ASU has with anyone is a bonus for them. Good for everyone that there are multiple medical hubs in downtown Phoenix. Kudos to flexibility and creativity.
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  #17364  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 1:26 AM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcats View Post
The UofA is the only school in the country to have two separate medical schools.
That's not entirely true. Michigan State University has two separate medical schools. The College of Human Medicine awards the M.D. degree, and the College of Osteopathic Medicine awards the D.O. degree. Students of both are eligible to sit for the U.S. Medical Licensing Exam and go on to residencies, fellowships, and board certification. I think there may be a few other institutions with similar arrangements. What makes UA distinctive is having two separately accredited allopathic (M.D.) medical schools. That is rare.

Last edited by exit2lef; Jul 6, 2020 at 11:39 AM.
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  #17365  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 4:22 AM
SunDevil SunDevil is offline
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Is it a separate medical school or does it still answer to the admins at UofA in Tucson?

I thought it was an extension. I would happily be proven wrong. Can't learn without making mistakes.

Regardless, while it helped there was much more to recent downtown development. However, I think you're right that it saved the biomedical campus, hard to compete with San Diego just a few hours drive away.
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  #17366  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 5:57 AM
fawd fawd is offline
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Originally Posted by SunDevil View Post
Is it a separate medical school or does it still answer to the admins at UofA in Tucson?
They are separate. Both have their own admissions, interview process, accreditation, dean, etc. Obviously there is some carryover in terms of reputation and the fact that both answer to the University.

But for all intensive purposes, they are totally separate.




My wife is an alum of the Phoenix program.
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  #17367  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 10:32 AM
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combusean combusean is offline
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This discussion is whacked.

If you know anything about the history and politics of ABOR, the Arizona Board of Regents, is despite the fact that Phoenix was desperately lacking in a medical school but ABOR, guided by Tusconian beliefs has always vetoed that notion of ASU building a medical school.

The initiative that birthed the ASU expansion downtown was always sidelined around the biomedical campus and joint university cooperation. The brief partnership that existed between ASU and UofA in Downtown in that district was always touted as a joint endeavor. I have a hat from the era that shows the one place ASU's and UofA's logo exist on the same fabric for the only point ever.

It's clear that didn't work. ASU bailed as far as it could from Downtown with the Mayo Clinic, Tucson expanded into Downtown. University politics are wretched and I don't care about why.

FWIW, Arizona's higher education is just broken. ASU is far too large and creates these "ASU everywhere" programs that should just be independent campuses instead of pigeonholing students into generic degrees far and away from the main campus and where they live. It should be something like Cal State where multiple degrees are offered at different campuses, UofA could be a better higher form of education like the University of California system that is harder to get into but similarly delivers geographic results.

And then we have AZ's Community College system, especially Phoenix College and MCC that are left pissing into the wind and are completely underutilized. ABOR doesn't want you to get a 4 year degree there no matter what.

It's ridic that Arizona has so many government agencies fighting with each other to prevent student success.
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  #17368  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 3:36 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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It is interesting, over 10 years ago I sat in a room with Crow who, himself stated, that he wanted the ASU campuses to eventually become their own independent (or semi independent) schools like the Cal State system.

Now I expect Temp and Downtown will still be ASU but West, Poly-tech, Lake Havassue allegedly were and are intended to become independent in a way.

Now not sure if its because of ABOR, or plans changed and they cant manage to get the satellite campuses going? I dont know, but as far as I do know repeating a CAL like system was the intention.
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  #17369  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 3:56 PM
Mr.RE Mr.RE is offline
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Driving East on the I-10 toward PHX from California over the weekend is so satisfying to see all the cranes and the changing landscape. I was in SD over the weekend, admiring their beautiful buildings in downtown. I know once projects like Astra start to take root, PHX will look a lot like these costal cities in the coming decade. I hope we make the push toward the salt river and the reimagined project takes hold for some more "waterfront" developments stretching miles across multiple municipalities
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  #17370  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 5:03 PM
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PHXFireBirds PHXFireBirds is offline
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From what I've been told by higher-ups at UofA's medical department is basically ASU had cold feet and backed out in the 25th hour. Which really rubbed UofA the wrong way, but UofA went through with it and ASU had the audacity to try to get back in, but that door was shut for good. I know a ton of people that went to both med schools. But, many of my friends that went to the Phoenix campus (who are ASU alums) shared that same sentiment.
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  #17371  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 5:21 PM
Chestnut1 Chestnut1 is offline
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Not sure this was posted yet, but X Basecamp submitted their preliminary building plans July 2.
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  #17372  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 5:41 PM
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CrestedSaguaro CrestedSaguaro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chestnut1 View Post
Not sure this was posted yet, but X Basecamp submitted their preliminary building plans July 2.
I have a question on this. The lot is currently being used for construction staging and construction employee parking for the ASU tower. Will X have to wait on ASU getting completed which will be several months or will ASU be required to move the staging lot?
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  #17373  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 6:17 PM
Chestnut1 Chestnut1 is offline
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Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro View Post
I have a question on this. The lot is currently being used for construction staging and construction employee parking for the ASU tower. Will X have to wait on ASU getting completed which will be several months or will ASU be required to move the staging lot?
Well, they need to get their preliminary and final building plans approved yet, pull building permits and then there still may be utility issues before they can start construction. I think it's reasonable to assume the construction staging for ASU will be done by then.
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  #17374  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 8:13 PM
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CrestedSaguaro CrestedSaguaro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chestnut1 View Post
Well, they need to get their preliminary and final building plans approved yet, pull building permits and then there still may be utility issues before they can start construction. I think it's reasonable to assume the construction staging for ASU will be done by then.
Seems like that will be some time yet. Checked on some ground-breaking articles and completion isn't expected until fall of 2021. It shouldn't take 1 year for X to get finalized. Of course, the staging itself may not be needed once the shell is completed. So say 6 months?

On an separate topic, the crane base is in for the O'Neil development. Another crane coming soon, possibly this weekend.
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  #17375  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 8:16 PM
downtownphxguy12 downtownphxguy12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
It is interesting, over 10 years ago I sat in a room with Crow who, himself stated, that he wanted the ASU campuses to eventually become their own independent (or semi independent) schools like the Cal State system.

Now I expect Temp and Downtown will still be ASU but West, Poly-tech, Lake Havassue allegedly were and are intended to become independent in a way.

Now not sure if its because of ABOR, or plans changed and they cant manage to get the satellite campuses going? I dont know, but as far as I do know repeating a CAL like system was the intention.
I believe it was NAU alumni on the board that killed the whole idea. they liken themselves to be on par with asu and uofa. maybe they are.

but they set up a whole system like the california or north carolina. asu and uofA top tier research universities,

https://wc.arizona.edu/papers/98/62/01_6.html
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  #17376  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 8:22 PM
downtownphxguy12 downtownphxguy12 is offline
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Eco Phoenix

Eco phoenix has some columns formed up on the southside of the lot. Glad to see this one moving (diagonal from pita jungle). I was afraid it was going to be an empty lot after they tore down forno's
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  #17377  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2020, 5:07 PM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is offline
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Originally Posted by downtownphxguy12 View Post
I believe it was NAU alumni on the board that killed the whole idea. they liken themselves to be on par with asu and uofa. maybe they are.
They're not, and they're foolish for thinking they're anywhere close to being in the same prestige as either ASU or UofA.

I'm saying this as an NAU grad. Do you have a pulse? Congratulations, you're a Lumberjack! California universities impossible to get into? Come to Flagstaff! Can't drive in the snow? Doesn't matter!

Meanwhile, ABOR royally fucked up the university and community college systems, as combusean already stated. NAU under Rita Cheng's leadership (appointed by ABOR), has been an unmitigated disaster for both the university and Flagstaff.
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  #17378  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2020, 7:06 PM
fawd fawd is offline
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 View Post
Do you have a pulse? Congratulations, you're a Lumberjack!
With the exception of a few specific programs - that's the case for all three of the universities (undergraduate). I've never heard of anyone getting a rejection letter from ASU or UA. lol!
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  #17379  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2020, 8:05 PM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is offline
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Right, I got accepted at all three for undergrad (met the bare-minimum requirements and had terrible SAT and ACT scores) and almost went to UofA. However, ASU and UofA aren't diploma mills like NAU and have nationally recognized/respected specialties. I probably should've re-phrased that to: "Do you have a pulse? Congratulations, here's your NAU Degree!"
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  #17380  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 1:10 AM
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Spitfiredude Spitfiredude is offline
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You know development news is slowing when you're debating the prestige of Arizona colleges. In all seriousness, this is starting to remind me of lurking on this thread 2009-2013, when development news was beginning to slow (or was slow) & arguments over random shit always happened. Definitely had my fair share & not knocking anyone. Just kind of depressing. I wonder how many of these projects sitting in the planning stage will still get developed.
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