West Gatineau LRT & Downtown Loop | Proposed

[Truenorth00]

It's not just aesthetics. The disruption from that space being used for everything from parades to Canada Day parties and the security risk that goes with all of that is why Wellington should never have been an option. Guessing it was only ever a straw option.

[zzptichka]

Ruin the aesthetics? That's like the single best thing that could improve the aesthetics of Wellington Street.

[Aylmer]

When people talk of the aesthetics of Wellington, I suspect they're generally thinking about the buildings first and foremost. But the tram project wouldn't affect the buildings.

I think the second thing people think of are the nice, wide sidewalks. But those aren't concerned by this either. If anything, they may be widened.

The only part of Wellington that would be affected is the space between the curbs. And if you really think about it, that part of Wellington is indistinguishable from any 5-lane road you might find in an industrial park. It's regular asphalt and lane markings and huge traffic lights in obnoxious canary yellow. And it's mostly occupied by platoons of noisy SUVs, illegally-parked and idling tourist buses, lorries, and a parade of transit buses.

There's no aesthetic here to speak of, let alone ruin.

[J.OT13]

Transportation Committee Meeting in session. According to Kate Porter, most Councillors agree the Sparks tunnel option is the one to pursue.

https://twitter.com/KatePorterCBC/st...67676031721472

Some Councillors are still obsessed with the PoW/Bayview option even though its elimination has been explained to death.

YouTube Live Stream:

• Video Link

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The only opinion that matters is that of the NCC. I look forward to them settling the discussion and putting it under Sparks.

If the NCC had anything to do with it, there'd be no transit anywhere.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

When people talk of the aesthetics of Wellington, I suspect they're generally thinking about the buildings first and foremost. But the tram project wouldn't affect the buildings.

I think the second thing people think of are the nice, wide sidewalks. But those aren't concerned by this either. If anything, they may be widened.

The only part of Wellington that would be affected is the space between the curbs. And if you really think about it, that part of Wellington is indistinguishable from any 5-lane road you might find in an industrial park. It's regular asphalt and lane markings and huge traffic lights in obnoxious canary yellow. And it's mostly occupied by platoons of noisy SUVs, illegally-parked and idling tourist buses, lorries, and a parade of transit buses.

There's no aesthetic here to speak of, let alone ruin.

You're forgetting about stations. Depending on the scale and an overall design of prospective stations, they could very well be aesthetically incompatible and unpleasing. Since this is intended to become the main transit access to downtown Ottawa for virtually all STO riders, I imagine stations would have to be considerably large to accommodate current and future crowds.

[rocketphish]

FYI: I have renamed this thread to what the project actually is (West Gatineau LRT, not O-Train), and to distinguish it from all the fantasy rail threads that keep popping up.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

FYI: I have renamed this thread to what the project actually is (West Gatineau LRT, not O-Train), and to distinguish it from all the fantasy rail threads that keep popping up.

Nuke some of those fantasy threads. We don't need half a dozen of them.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Nuke some of those fantasy threads. We don't need half a dozen of them.

I would have to agree. There's a lot of overlap, with discussions on a fantasy Bank subway inevitably moving to fantasy Rideau-Montreal and converting the RapiBus. Better to have one fantasy transit thread.

[caboose]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

If the NCC had anything to do with it, there'd be no transit anywhere.

and no development, like at Lebreton Flats.

[caboose]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

You're forgetting about stations. Depending on the scale and an overall design of prospective stations, they could very well be aesthetically incompatible and unpleasing. Since this is intended to become the main transit access to downtown Ottawa for virtually all STO riders, I imagine stations would have to be considerably large to accommodate current and future crowds.

In order to eliminate all STO bus traffic in Ottawa, the STO could restore the original express routes in use before the Rapibus, and have a transfer station at Terrasses for trams continuing on to Ottawa. That would justify building higher capacity stations in downtown Gatineau and Ottawa. And would offer a one transfer only ride to Ottawa.

[caboose]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Nuke some of those fantasy threads. We don't need half a dozen of them.

Instead of nuking them, why not add "| Fantasy" to their title, like is done for "| Proposed"?

While they may not ever happen, one or two may become reality if the case can be made for them and they could secure the proper funding.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

If the NCC had anything to do with it, there'd be no transit anywhere.

Annoying they can be, I think City Council (in all its suburban dominated glory) is worse. For example, I would argue that the NCC forcing LRT off the SJAM has actually improved transit.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Annoying they can be, I think City Council (in all its suburban dominated glory) is worse. For example, I would argue that the NCC forcing LRT off the SJAM has actually improved transit.

I fully agree. The long and winding route along the Parkway would have made the trip longer and placed the stations further from the potential ridership base. This routing currently u/c is much straighter and provides better service to the nearby communities.

That said, I preferred the City's berm with ventilation shafts facing the river, which would have been a fair amount cheaper; that should have been a satisfactory compromise, but here we are.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

When people talk of the aesthetics of Wellington, I suspect they're generally thinking about the buildings first and foremost. But the tram project wouldn't affect the buildings.

I think the second thing people think of are the nice, wide sidewalks. But those aren't concerned by this either. If anything, they may be widened.

The only part of Wellington that would be affected is the space between the curbs. And if you really think about it, that part of Wellington is indistinguishable from any 5-lane road you might find in an industrial park. It's regular asphalt and lane markings and huge traffic lights in obnoxious canary yellow. And it's mostly occupied by platoons of noisy SUVs, illegally-parked and idling tourist buses, lorries, and a parade of transit buses.

There's no aesthetic here to speak of, let alone ruin.

They're probably referring to overhead wires.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

They're probably referring to overhead wires.

Don't think so. the survey specifically said they would pursue catenary-free solution along Wellington.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by caboose

Instead of nuking them, why not add "| Fantasy" to their title, like is done for "| Proposed"?

While they may not ever happen, one or two may become reality if the case can be made for them and they could secure the proper funding.

OK, I'm game to try this idea before we nuke anything. I've just tagged 3 threads with " | Fantasy " so people who aren't interested in them can clearly identify them by title and ignore them. If there are more in the same genre, let me know.

[J.OT13]

City leans to Sparks Street tunnel to fulfill Gatineau's rail dreams

Jon Willing, Postmedia
September 2, 2020

Gatineau is plotting a transit system between its western communities and the heart of Ottawa's parliamentary district using the Portage Bridge.

The political sentiment at Ottawa City Hall is leaning toward making the City of Gatineau build an expensive tunnel under Sparks Street if Gatineau wants to run a tram into the nation’s capital.

Out of two options to run rail into downtown Ottawa from Gatineau, a Sparks Street tunnel “seems to be by far the one people would like to see,” according to Coun. Tim Tierney, the chair of Ottawa’s transportation committee, which received an update on the interprovincial transit project Wednesday.

Gatineau is plotting a transit system between its western communities and the heart of Ottawa’s parliamentary district using the Portage Bridge. It’s still in an early planning stage and there isn’t a cost estimate yet, but Ottawa city council could be asked to take a position by the end of the year.

The transit system is projected to take 10 years to build after the studies are complete next spring.

If not through a tunnel under Sparks Street, the electric trains would have to run on the surface of Wellington Street, consultants have determined.

Judging by the reactions from Ottawa councillors on Wednesday, there’s little appetite to have trains squeeze down Wellington Street and mar the vistas to Parliament Hill.

Tierney said it seems clear that, from the view of Ottawa’s transportation committee, the “much-preferred option is under Sparks,” though no committee member was prepared to put a motion on the table to cement a city position. The opportunity could come up during an Ottawa council meeting on Sept. 9.

An online survey drawing 1,503 respondents over the summer resulted in strong support registered for the Sparks Street tunnel option.

Even Ottawa’s director of transportation planning, Vivi Chi, seemed skeptical about the notion of carving up a narrow section of Wellington Street to build two tracks, passenger platforms, cycle lanes, sidewalks and car lanes.

“There will be tradeoffs if it’s on Wellington, that’s for sure, because we just can’t fit everything in,” Chi said.

One big advantage of a 1.2-kilometre-long tunnel under Sparks Street is the prospect of having underground connections with the Confederation Line tunnel under Queen Street.

Having the City of Ottawa dig in its heels could put Gatineau in a tough spot when it comes to deciding on the ultimate route. Building a rail tunnel is undoubtedly the more expensive of the two options.

On the other hand, Gatineau isn’t planning to use its own property tax money to pay for the new transit system. Instead, it’s counting on the Quebec government paying 60 per cent of the costs and the federal government covering the rest. Gatineau doesn’t intend on the City of Ottawa paying anything.

Gatineau is trying to build a sustainable transit network from Aylmer using trains or buses, or a combination of the two modes through that city’s western communities, before a tram rolls into Ottawa via the Portage Bridge.

“If we cannot find a way to get the tram in Ottawa, it will be buses, and we know what the scenario will incur for the City of Ottawa’s downtown and also for our own challenges that we are experiencing now with the amount of buses we have to roll through the Portage Bridge,” said Myriam Nadeau, the Gatineau councillor who chairs Société de transport de l’Outaouais (STO).

Both options would still require STO buses running in downtown Ottawa to varying degrees.

A tram line on Wellington Street could bring significant traffic impacts if there are turning restrictions — or even the complete removal of cars east of Bank Street — and the transit system risks operational delays because of demonstrations that usually happen around Parliament Hill, the committee heard. A Wellington Street tram might even require a slice of federal land along Parliament Hill.

There’s also a concern about cluttering the vista in front of the Parliament Buildings and around the National War Memorial with trains and rail infrastructure. (The trains would run on battery power in the Ottawa section to eliminate the need for overhead lines.)

The federal government, including the National Capital Commission, will weigh in during the study.

“Impeding the visual aesthetics of our Parliament Hill is not an option to me,” said Coun. Laura Dudas, a member of Ottawa’s transportation committee. “I know that it probably seems to be the easier choice, but once we impede that visual aspect we can’t get that back.”

Dudas questioned if a Sparks Street tunnel is even a viable option considering the expected high price of construction.

Orléans Coun. Matthew Luloff said he was concerned about diverting traffic onto Queen Street if a tram eats up road space on Wellington Street.

“I’m very concerned that we’re solving one problem and creating five,” Luloff said.

https://ottawasun.com/news/local-new...-08a32b73a8dc/

[caboose]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

OK, I'm game to try this idea before we nuke anything. I've just tagged 3 threads with " | Fantasy " so people who aren't interested in them can clearly identify them by title and ignore them. If there are more in the same genre, let me know.

Will do. If I ever start a "fantasy" thread, I'll make sure to label it.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

They're probably referring to overhead wires.

They are 100% referring to overhead wires, which is, apparently, the worst possible thing that can exist in a city.