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  #22781  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 3:15 AM
McBane McBane is offline
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Originally Posted by allovertown View Post
Why though? You hate it. I hate it too. Cheesecake factories suck. Why do you want bad things to continue to exist?

A sugar factory sells nothing but overpriced stupid bullshit. I will never use one and have no desire for there to be one in our city. What's wrong with being happy it's gone and will be replaced by something else? The sports bar doesn't seem like anywhere I'll be spending much time, but it's an easy improvement over Sugar Factory. A 7-11 would also be an improvement btw, another place I'd at least occasionally frequent as opposed to the completely useless sugar factory.
That's a pretty selfish way to look at things. A successful city appeals to everyone. I dislike chain restaurants, too but you know what, a lot of people DO like them and so having those options available is a good thing: their money is green, also. Frankly, as long as a retail space is full, attracts a decent clientele, supports jobs, and generates income for the City, I could care less whether it's somewhere I would patronize or not. Even better if it's a place with few locations and cachet.
     
     
  #22782  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 3:37 AM
AnEmperorPenguin AnEmperorPenguin is offline
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Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
I'm not a data wizard, but it would be interesting to see a comparison of housing data in the largest US cities from 2019-2022. And reassuring if this trend is similar across the board. If not, do policy changes drive the slowdown moreso than the general economic climate? I'm not sure, just thinking out loud...

But to chimpskibot point, there may be a waiting game for some developers to see the absorption rates of all these massive new projects.

OT, I roll my eyes when I see quotes from Helen Gym...
looking through https://housingdata.app/ it doesn't look like it, seemed pretty clear last year that developers were racing to get the full abatement so I don't think this is surprising even without any economic factors.

I don't really think it's about absorption though, philly has had very bad construction on a per capita basis for decades even as population growth has picked up, there are some structural factors that probably increase costs to the point most new projects won't be profitable
     
     
  #22783  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 4:38 AM
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Originally Posted by AnEmperorPenguin View Post
looking through https://housingdata.app/ it doesn't look like it, seemed pretty clear last year that developers were racing to get the full abatement so I don't think this is surprising even without any economic factors.
Same thing happened in NYC. This was expected and it's probably more appropriate to look at a 12-month rolling average in this case. Everyone and their mother was getting permits in 2021 to get the full abatement. Now we have some sellers scrambling to sell their properties while they're fully entitled for the full 10-year abatement to unwitting buyers, knowing their permits and extensions will run out soon.

[NYC] Building Permits Soared Before Developer Tax Break Expired, New Numbers Show
     
     
  #22784  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 6:29 AM
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Originally Posted by allovertown View Post
A 7-11 would also be an improvement btw, another place I'd at least occasionally frequent as opposed to the completely useless sugar factory.
Fortunately for you, there is a 7-11 just half a block away at 1201 Chestnut. ;-)
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  #22785  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 8:51 AM
skyhigh07 skyhigh07 is offline
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
That's a pretty selfish way to look at things. A successful city appeals to everyone. I dislike chain restaurants, too but you know what, a lot of people DO like them and so having those options available is a good thing: their money is green, also. Frankly, as long as a retail space is full, attracts a decent clientele, supports jobs, and generates income for the City, I could care less whether it's somewhere I would patronize or not. Even better if it's a place with few locations and cachet.
Exactly! Thank you! Couldn’t have said if better myself.

Also, I know a lot of people who choose chain restaurants when they go out to dinner with their kids. That generally seemed to be the crowd coming in and out of Sugar Factory I noticed.

Last edited by skyhigh07; Dec 8, 2022 at 10:29 AM.
     
     
  #22786  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 2:29 PM
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
That's a pretty selfish way to look at things. A successful city appeals to everyone. I dislike chain restaurants, too but you know what, a lot of people DO like them and so having those options available is a good thing: their money is green, also. Frankly, as long as a retail space is full, attracts a decent clientele, supports jobs, and generates income for the City, I could care less whether it's somewhere I would patronize or not. Even better if it's a place with few locations and cachet.
"Oh stop it, CC is supposed to be for the rich who will only patronize the most local of businesses and it should only have the things that *I* like in it. Eff chains, families, and anyone else who doesn't think like I do!"

Years later:

"It's a shame businesses keep leaving and we need to do something to attract families, tourists, and a more diverse crowd."

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  #22787  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 3:00 PM
PHLtoNYC PHLtoNYC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnEmperorPenguin View Post
looking through https://housingdata.app/ it doesn't look like it, seemed pretty clear last year that developers were racing to get the full abatement so I don't think this is surprising even without any economic factors.

I don't really think it's about absorption though, philly has had very bad construction on a per capita basis for decades even as population growth has picked up, there are some structural factors that probably increase costs to the point most new projects won't be profitable
Thanks for the link!

Hopefully the fallout is a temporary symptom of the reduced abatement. If new housing permits continue to trickle in 2023, I would hope local leaders (like Helen Gym) get their heads out of the sand and find an equilibrium to incentivize more new housing.
     
     
  #22788  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 3:01 PM
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Personally chains aren’t my favorite but it’s imperative that the city has them. I live in the city with young kids and we love going to Iron Hill because it’s spacious and it’s a good option for young families. As much as I love them It’s almost impossible to take kids to some of the small footprint restaurants in the city. The chains offer families a much needed, hassle free option to get in and out easily and keep our $ in the city.
     
     
  #22789  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 3:02 PM
PHLtoNYC PHLtoNYC is offline
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Originally Posted by skyhigh07 View Post
It’s funny how the city spent over a decade successfully cleaning up crime and changing public perception of the city only to have it unravel rather quickly lol. Curious to see if there’s any actual hard numbers on the economic impact and investor sentiment. I do feel like the city is more or less back on its feet with the caveats of crime, some QOL issues and a partially absent workforce. However, it does seem like those issues are improving albeit rather slowly.
It appears crime is slowly going down, including shootings & homicides. Let's hope this becomes a real trend in 2023 and beyond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyhigh07 View Post
I now understand PHLtoNYC’s post awhile back regarding comments like this. Not sure how losing a vibrant tenant that provides jobs, attracts customers and families that spend money in an otherwise somewhat blighted block is a good thing lol. Maybe we can get another 7/11 in there that’s a magnet for homeless and druggies. I guess at least the replacement is a sports bar…
Don't drag me into this!
     
     
  #22790  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 3:40 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Has anyone seen this yet?

https://www.inquirer.com/news/census...-20221208.html

It's amazing that these writers take what to me should be a feel good story and turns it into a negative.

I would look at that map of rising incomes all over Philadelphia and say thank god and finally.
     
     
  #22791  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 4:11 PM
PHLtoNYC PHLtoNYC is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
Has anyone seen this yet?

https://www.inquirer.com/news/census...-20221208.html

It's amazing that these writers take what to me should be a feel good story and turns it into a negative.

I would look at that map of rising incomes all over Philadelphia and say thank god and finally.
The title hinted at an interesting and positive set of stats.

But lo and behold it's mostly another nonsense piece that distorts rising incomes as a bad thing... I wish the Inquirer could better separate news and sad dramatizations.

I say contact the writer or editor with your critiques, but they never respond to me when I do.

Last edited by PHLtoNYC; Dec 8, 2022 at 4:38 PM.
     
     
  #22792  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
It's amazing that these writers take what to me should be a feel good story and turns it into a negative.
But are you really surprised?
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  #22793  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 5:58 PM
allovertown allovertown is offline
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
That's a pretty selfish way to look at things. A successful city appeals to everyone. I dislike chain restaurants, too but you know what, a lot of people DO like them and so having those options available is a good thing: their money is green, also. Frankly, as long as a retail space is full, attracts a decent clientele, supports jobs, and generates income for the City, I could care less whether it's somewhere I would patronize or not. Even better if it's a place with few locations and cachet.
... But the retail spot we're talking about is full. It was immediately replaced. It's not like I'm taking picket signs to cheesecake factory and demanding they close. Idgaf. I'm simply saying if a place like cheesecake factory closes and is replaced by something I'd enjoy better, why would I be upset about it? Just because I think there should be a Cheesecake Factory in center city to cross it off some imaginary checklist? Makes no sense to me.

And all the people crying "won't somebody think of the children" please get a grip. Cheesecake Factory is not cheap or good. I have children and I couldn't imagine wanting to go there and easily spend over $100 for a shit meal. How is this a commentary on where will regular people eat if there's no cheesecake Factory? There are dozens of nearby restaurants where a family could go and get a better meal for less than they would at the cheesecake Factory.

Also not a commentary on chains in general. I also like iron hill! These "factories" we're discussing are simply bad and overpriced. And it seems most agree, so I just don't understand why anyone would fret at all that sugar factory left town and was immediately replaced by something better.
     
     
  #22794  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 6:17 PM
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Nice spotlight piece in WSJ today. On the front page of their website right now. Touches on crime but it's not a focus, and mostly fair.

Philadelphia’s Center City Sees Resurgence in Housing, Economic Activity

Quote:
PHILADELPHIA—This city’s downtown is showing fresh signs of renewed economic vitality, buoyed by strong housing demand, hospitality-sector growth and a return-to-work push led by employers such as Comcast Corp., despite ongoing concerns about crime.

Cities across the country have struggled to rebound from the affects of the Covid-19 pandemic, when a shift to working from home hollowed out many downtown cores. Residents, business owners, workers and local commerce officials say they see clear improvement in Philadelphia’s Center City as the pandemic begins to turn a corner into its fourth year.

The budding resurgence here shows how a downtown with large retail and tourism sectors and where many people live as well as work can jolt back to life more quickly than those more dependent on commuters, local officials say.

Abby Clouser, a 26-year-old area resident, bought Christmas gifts one recent afternoon at Glossier, a makeup boutique that is among the latest retailers to open along Walnut Street in Center City’s upscale Rittenhouse Square neighborhood.

“It’s exciting to see a lot of new places like this opening,” she said of the Glossier shop, which opened in late October. “Every time I’m walking down the street it seems pretty busy,” said Ms. Clouser, who manages client services for an auction house.

Some data back up the notion of a resurgence. Center City hotel occupancy was 67% in both September and October, the highest monthly rates since the start of the pandemic, according to data provided to Visit Philadelphia, the city’s marketing agency, by the firm Tourism Economics. Leisure and group travel accounted for nearly two-thirds of the stays, the data show.

Downtown pedestrian foot traffic in November reached 73% of November 2019 levels, based on anonymized mobile-phone data, making it one of the busiest months of the pandemic, according to the Center City District, a business-improvement district that spans 233 blocks. The group said storefront occupancy in September hit the highest level since June 2020, with 81% open for business, compared with 89% in 2019.

One of Center City’s newest residential projects is a 48-story condo and apartment tower in Rittenhouse Square by developer Southern Land Co. Rents for the 184 apartments range from $2,200 to $7,900 a month, and the 65 condos for sale start “in the upper $2 millions,” the company says. A few blocks east stands another recent arrival, Dranoff Properties’ 47-story Arthaus condo tower, whose 107 units cost between $1.6 million and $15 million.

Center City, like many downtowns, remains hampered by factors such as remote work’s enduring appeal and public-safety concerns. Foot traffic in October was down 25% to 30% from October 2019 in Center City, Chicago’s Loop, Boston’s Financial District and Midtown Manhattan, according to analytics firm Placer.ai. Boston’s Back Bay, which like Center City has a healthy residential population, had 10% less foot traffic; lower Manhattan dipped 36%.

“The recovery for all of this is happening more slowly than we would like, but the trends are pretty significant,” said Paul Levy, Center City District’s longtime president and chief executive.

Some economic indicators point to continuing headwinds in Center City, said Thomas Ginsberg, a senior officer with the Pew Charitable Trusts’ Philadelphia research and policy initiative. A Pew data set tracking Philadelphia’s pandemic-era economic recovery shows 5.6% of retail businesses were delinquent on non-rent bills in the third quarter, the second-highest percentage since late 2020, according to credit-reporting firm Experian PLC.

“It’s definitely still a mixed picture,” Mr. Ginsberg said.

One advantage for Center City, he said, is its large and fairly affluent residential population. Unlike in places such as New York City’s Midtown, many professionals work and live downtown Philadelphia, meaning they help the microeconomy even while working from home, he noted. The heart of Center City has about 70,000 residents.

Many office workers have yet to return to their offices, but some employers are bringing their people back to Center City.

Comcast delivered a boost to the area when it told employees in September they should be in the office on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. The cable and entertainment company has about 8,000 workers spread over two office towers in the heart of Center City.

“You bring those people in three times a week, that’s like a small town,” said Anne Nadol, Philadelphia’s commerce director.

Victory Brewing Co.’s two-level taproom, which opened in October 2021 on the nearby Benjamin Franklin Parkway, has benefited from the influx of Comcast workers, said General Manager Conor Martin. “They’re in here multiple times a week,” he said, sometimes in groups of 45.

Late on a recent morning, Comcast IT engineer Pat Hochstuhl filed into Victory Brewing with more than a dozen colleagues for lunch. Mr. Hochstuhl, 30, who lives in a suburb a half-hour away, said the company’s Center City campus and surrounding areas were noticeably busier.

At the seasonal Christmas Village near City Hall, Charisse McGill said her French Toast Bites food stand drew 20% more customers on Thanksgiving than a year earlier, translating to a 36% jump in gross sales. Fellow merchant Chartel Findlater, who owns Gold + Water Co., said she has done steady business selling the soaps, room sprays and other products she makes.

“Especially on the weekends, it has been shoulder to shoulder here,” Ms. Findlater said.

Public-safety worries remain. Philadelphia overall has experienced elevated levels of violent crime in recent years, with a record 562 homicides last year. Though police department records show the violence has mostly occurred outside downtown, three people were killed in a shooting last June on South Street, a nightlife hub.

The Philadelphia Police Department said that since October 2021 it has boosted patrols in high-pedestrian traffic areas of Center City, based on police data and feedback from employers and commuters. Mr. Levy said the Center City District has doubled deployments of its unarmed safety workers on foot and bicycle.

Early in the pandemic, a period that saw civil unrest in Philadelphia after the 2020 murder in Minneapolis of George Floyd, the ZIP Code that includes Rittenhouse Square lost the most households in the city, said Kevin Gillen, senior research fellow at Drexel University’s Lindy Institute for Urban Innovation.

He said new data are now showing a rebound, with home prices and rents higher than in 2019.

“Affluent households are not only willing to purchase properties in Center City, they are also once again willing to occupy them,” he said in an email. “This demonstrates not only an increased demand to live in Philadelphia, but also an increased optimism to invest in Philadelphia and its future.”

Derek Giannone’s family opened Paulie Gee’s Soul City Slice Shop last June in Washington Square West, attracted by the density of the Center City neighborhood. The retro-themed pizzeria’s bar was crowded on a recent afternoon as customers watched the U.S. men’s soccer team hang on to defeat Iran in a must-win World Cup match.

Mr. Giannone said someone broke into the slice shop earlier this year and unsuccessfully tried to crack a safe. But he said crime in Center City isn’t as bad as many people perceive, and he said everyone he knows who left town early in the pandemic had since returned. “All my friends who went to go live with their parents for a little while eventually came back,” he said.
     
     
  #22795  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 6:19 PM
philly_account12 philly_account12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia View Post
Just reporting, the core is already above ground - we need a pictorial update for this one.
Building on what Jawn said in the 418 Spring Garden thread, there has been a ton of progress on the projects on Spring Garden/Delaware ave since we last got updates on here. The Festival Pier site also has a core above ground, 918 Delaware ave is moving quickly, and 700 Delaware ave looked like they were drilling foundations this morning.

If any of our resident photographers are in the area in the near future I think there are a number of projects that could use some pictorial updates.
     
     
  #22796  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 6:44 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by allovertown View Post
... But the retail spot we're talking about is full. It was immediately replaced. It's not like I'm taking picket signs to cheesecake factory and demanding they close. Idgaf. I'm simply saying if a place like cheesecake factory closes and is replaced by something I'd enjoy better, why would I be upset about it? Just because I think there should be a Cheesecake Factory in center city to cross it off some imaginary checklist? Makes no sense to me.

And all the people crying "won't somebody think of the children" please get a grip. Cheesecake Factory is not cheap or good. I have children and I couldn't imagine wanting to go there and easily spend over $100 for a shit meal. How is this a commentary on where will regular people eat if there's no cheesecake Factory? There are dozens of nearby restaurants where a family could go and get a better meal for less than they would at the cheesecake Factory.

Also not a commentary on chains in general. I also like iron hill! These "factories" we're discussing are simply bad and overpriced. And it seems most agree, so I just don't understand why anyone would fret at all that sugar factory left town and was immediately replaced by something better.
There's a socioeconomic aspect to this. Not everyone feels comfortable going to independent restaurants, right wrong or indifferent. I think there is a perception among some, especially those who don't grow up regularly going out to eat, that the typical independent sort of fine dining restaurant is exclusive or exclusionary. And I see where that comes from.

I say more is more. Let's have all the options for the maximal number of people and everyone gets to do what makes them happiest.

This debate reminds me of all the parking no parking wars that happen in development blogs. There's a hard core group of purists who think nobody should have a car and everybody should walk or take transit everywhere and then there are realists who acknowledge not everyone can walk or take transit to their job, and if we (Philadelphia) is trying to accommodate the maximum number of people, we need to have both.
     
     
  #22797  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 7:05 PM
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summersm343 summersm343 is offline
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Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat View Post
Nice spotlight piece in WSJ today. On the front page of their website right now. Touches on crime but it's not a focus, and mostly fair.

Philadelphia’s Center City Sees Resurgence in Housing, Economic Activity
Pretty good article!
     
     
  #22798  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 7:07 PM
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A new thrift store and health-care center are coming to 8th and Market



Quote:
Center City will soon be getting a new health center and thrift store — in the same building.

The Los Angeles-based AIDS Healthcare Foundation (AHF) has purchased the site of a former two-story Burger King on Eighth Street, just south of East Market Street, for almost $2.9 million.

AHF is a long-established health-care provider that operates in 17 states and 45 countries and claims to be the largest provider of HIV medical care worldwide. AHF has been operating in Philadelphia for five years and currently has a much smaller health center and pharmacy at 1211 Chestnut St.

“Philly is a great city … with a large dynamic population, lots of young people,” LaLota said. “But, unfortunately, like most big cities, there’s a lot of HIV and STIs [sexually transmitted infections]. We figured there’s enough to go around, even with all the organizations there doing a great job.”

At the former Burger King location, AHF plans a full-service pharmacy, health-care center, and testing laboratory on the second floor. On the first floor will be a thrift store called “Out of The Closet,” which will be part of a successful model AHF has used in 23 other locations to help fund health-care services for those who can’t afford them.

The thrift shop plans to sell clothing, housewares, records, books, and other odds and ends. They will accept donations at the store.
Read/view more here:
https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate...-20221206.html
     
     
  #22799  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 8:10 PM
PHLtoNYC PHLtoNYC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat View Post
Nice spotlight piece in WSJ today. On the front page of their website right now. Touches on crime but it's not a focus, and mostly fair.

Philadelphia’s Center City Sees Resurgence in Housing, Economic Activity
A good article, and generally positive trends! I'm actually bringing my partner and 2 friends to the Philadelphia Orchestra holiday concert in 2 weeks. I opted for Philly instead of NYC.

And interesting that the WSJ features a positive writeup about Philadelphia but the Inquirer can't.
     
     
  #22800  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 8:23 PM
McBane McBane is offline
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
A new thrift store and health-care center are coming to 8th and Market

Read/view more here:
https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate...-20221206.html
The East Market revival continues! Goldenberg Group, you have no more excuses. I not only expect the Disneyhole lot to be finally developed but maybe if we're lucky, the project will have a methodone clinic, too. (Sorry, I couldn't help myself!)
     
     
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