Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[WhipperSnapper]

Like a Soviet era housing block in Mariupol

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Would they use the Civic Centre (Lansdowne) or is it slated for reno or demo? Centre Slush Puppie woud be a shoo-in if more than one venue is used, but the question is what the Ottawa rink would be.

It won't be demolished for at least 5 years. City and OSEG need to come up with a plan first, then get someone to build the new rink before the Civic comes down. They'll want to keep the Civic and North stands as long as possible.

Originally Posted by thurmas

Not sure what happens to the senators arena plans and ownership with melnyk's passing today?

Last we heard, the Sens did not want to comment on whether or not they answered the RFI for LeBreton, which usually mean they did express interest. Should his daughter's decide to sell, having LeBreton back on the table as a possible new location could garner some interest.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It's possible that a Toronto bid could be supported by London, or a Hamilton bid supported by Guelph/Niagara.

Hamilton might not be an option. The arena is slated to be closed for renovation some time in 2023 and 2024. But they'd probably wait until the OHL season is done and I imagine management will want to cram as many events in before the closure, so maybe it would work if other things aren't already scheduled.

[JustForTheHalibut]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

My guess would be Moncton > Saint John. As the Memorial Cup and the Canada/Russia series have been in Saint john more recently than Moncton.
They also have the newer arena which they'd want to show off.

Would probably be all Canada group games in Halifax. Second group games all in Moncton. Then obviously the medal games in Halifax.

I think the maritimes would be a good option since they haven't hosted for a long time.

I wish Kamloops and Kelowna or Prince George would be a hosting duo. Vancouver and Victoria hosted only a few years ago if I remember right and Edmonton hosted last year and again later this year after having been rescheduled.

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

If they go to the Maritimes this year, I imagine Saskatchewan will be up again soonish. Would be nice if they could coincide it with Saskatoon's new arena... whenever that will be.

I fell down a rabbit hole looking at NLL teams earlier and ran across a link that suggested that a new arena is in the works in Saskatoon apparently.

https://saskatoon.ctvnews.ca/it-ll-b...ntre-1.5796511

[J.OT13]

Cross posting this on both the Stadiums & Arenas and NHL threads.

It's a bit sad we can't at least wait until after Melnyk's funeral to talk about the future of the Sens, but here we are.

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

Not sure where the criticism is, but the most popular fan site at least is free from such contamination. No matter what you thought of Melnyk the owner, he was a passionate man with a family.

Shaun Simpson on TSN 1200 tweeted that he knows of 4 groups who want the Sens and in on Lebreton.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TSNSimmer...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[JHikka]

Senators partner with OSEG for WJC bid
April 6, 2022

The Ottawa Senators have entered a bit to host the 2023 World Junior Championship with the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group.

According to Bruce Garrioch of Postmedia, the Senators organization made the decision on Tuesday night, breaking away from plans to enter a bid with Quebec City.

La Presse reported last week that the Senators were discussing the possibility of playing five home games in Quebec City's Videotron Centre next season, a report that was dismissed by Senators president of business operations Anthony LeBlanc. He specified at the time that the club has had discussions about a joint bid to host the World Juniors with Quebec City and while the possibility of the Senators playing neutral site games at the Videotron Centre was tabled by Quebec government officials during those discussions, that specific talking point never went any further.

Garrioch adds that the QMJHL's Halifax Mooseheads and the Moncton Wildcats of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League are also believed to be working on a bid to host the tournament, as well as Vancouver and Victoria, B.C., London and Kitchener, Ont., and Regina and Saskatoon, Sask.

https://www.tsn.ca/ottawa-senators-w...ship-1.1781588

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Senators partner with OSEG for WJC bid
April 6, 2022

The Ottawa Senators have entered a bit to host the 2023 World Junior Championship with the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group.

According to Bruce Garrioch of Postmedia, the Senators organization made the decision on Tuesday night, breaking away from plans to enter a bid with Quebec City.

La Presse reported last week that the Senators were discussing the possibility of playing five home games in Quebec City's Videotron Centre next season, a report that was dismissed by Senators president of business operations Anthony LeBlanc. He specified at the time that the club has had discussions about a joint bid to host the World Juniors with Quebec City and while the possibility of the Senators playing neutral site games at the Videotron Centre was tabled by Quebec government officials during those discussions, that specific talking point never went any further.

Garrioch adds that the QMJHL's Halifax Mooseheads and the Moncton Wildcats of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League are also believed to be working on a bid to host the tournament, as well as Vancouver and Victoria, B.C., London and Kitchener, Ont., and Regina and Saskatoon, Sask.

https://www.tsn.ca/ottawa-senators-w...ship-1.1781588

As I said in the other thread, Quebec City and Trois-Rivières are also putting in a bid.

[thurmas]

The Oakland a's ballpark deal in Oakland is very close to collapsing now. They are extremely close to relocating to las Vegas now. With that said if the rays cannot get their ballpark situation sorted there could be a lot of moving parts to mlb relocation and with expansion likely. Not sure how Bronfman wants to play this once the dust settles for montreal.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I looked up Augusta National on Google Earth once and I was shocked at its location. Always pictured it being out in the middle of nowhere.

I took a look and it didn't look too bad to me, it looks like it's surrounded by a little bit of everything... your standard southern stroads with the usual types of businesses, and residential ranging from working poor to upper middle class.

A lot of country clubs are in older parts of the city...i.e., they were "country" when they opened 100, 150 years ago but they are now solidly within the city. But you don't really see that on the TV fairway shots with the lush greenery blocking the view of the city beyond. Not unlike sports arenas and stadiums when you often have no idea what's outside the doors when you're watching an event on TV.

As for the Downsview soccer facility, that's cool to see. As a Winnipegger, I wonder if a domestic women's league might lead to a push for a soccer stadium here? I visited Starlight Stadium recently and I have to say, having something like that for men's/women's soccer might be a step up from what we currently have. I thought that maybe Valour could grow into IG Field and eventually draw 10,000+ a game to make the dampened atmosphere less of an issue but I'm not sure how realistic that is... if CPL soccer is bound to attract in the area of 5,000 fans a game then maybe a secondary facility that could also be used for other sports such as rugby, football, etc. might make sense. A smaller 5,000 or so seat venue could provide a lot of functionality for not a huge cost.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I looked up Augusta National on Google Earth once and I was shocked at its location. Always pictured it being out in the middle of nowhere.

Wait until you see where the Great Pyramid of Giza is.

You can walk to Pizza Hut.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

As for the Downsview soccer facility, that's cool to see. As a Winnipegger, I wonder if a domestic women's league might lead to a push for a soccer stadium here?

If the Bombers are involved in the ownership structure then there's not really much incentive for them to not continue plugging matchdays into IGF.

Originally Posted by esquire

I visited Starlight Stadium recently and I have to say, having something like that for men's/women's soccer might be a step up from what we currently have.

Starlight is definitely a leader for smaller stadiums in Canada at the moment. It's been growing nicely and is a great representation of what the CPL can manage in our mid-size markets. I've said this often but right-sized stadiums are far better for matchdays than cramming smaller events into over-sized stadiums. Nobody wants empty seats. Is there enough demand for a smaller scale soccer facility in Winnipeg? Perhaps with a women's pro team...

Originally Posted by esquire

I thought that maybe Valour could grow into IG Field and eventually draw 10,000+ a game to make the dampened atmosphere less of an issue but I'm not sure how realistic that is...

COVID really threw a wrench into the CPL's initial five-year planning forecast.

Originally Posted by esquire

... if CPL soccer is bound to attract in the area of 5,000 fans a game then maybe a secondary facility that could also be used for other sports such as rugby, football, etc. might make sense. A smaller 5,000 or so seat venue could provide a lot of functionality for not a huge cost.

A 5K venue just for a single CPL team doesn't seem financially viable, but if there are other tenants available then that certainly lends credence to the idea. Starlight hosts rugby, the future York United stadium in Rexdale will likely host CPL and women's pro. Wanderers Grounds hosts an array of events. 5K might be the sweet spot for today's CPL. 2022 will be a good indication of where things stand now that capacity restrictions will presumably be a non-factor.

It doesn't really affect CPL all that much but I still think IGF was built too large. Should have been 25K-27.5K in capacity. Built for a tighter and more compact viewing experience. Oh well.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Senators partner with OSEG for WJC bid
April 6, 2022

The Ottawa Senators have entered a bit to host the 2023 World Junior Championship with the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group.

According to Bruce Garrioch of Postmedia, the Senators organization made the decision on Tuesday night, breaking away from plans to enter a bid with Quebec City.

La Presse reported last week that the Senators were discussing the possibility of playing five home games in Quebec City's Videotron Centre next season, a report that was dismissed by Senators president of business operations Anthony LeBlanc. He specified at the time that the club has had discussions about a joint bid to host the World Juniors with Quebec City and while the possibility of the Senators playing neutral site games at the Videotron Centre was tabled by Quebec government officials during those discussions, that specific talking point never went any further.

Garrioch adds that the QMJHL's Halifax Mooseheads and the Moncton Wildcats of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League are also believed to be working on a bid to host the tournament, as well as Vancouver and Victoria, B.C., London and Kitchener, Ont., and Regina and Saskatoon, Sask.

https://www.tsn.ca/ottawa-senators-w...ship-1.1781588

Quite the turn. Wonder if it's a fallout due to the unrelated NHL discussions.

The Sens and OSEG working together is quite interesting, considering Melnyk and Ruddy (one of the owners of OSEG) were suing each other over the failed LeBreton deal.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by megadude

Always happy to see less desirable areas be improved by projects like this. But for some people who are not a part of that community, it feels like a shame when you host national or international events in areas that don't come to mind as places you want to show off on that kind of stage. I sometimes feel like that. Now, if I lived there, like my cousin, then I'd be very happy. If I were him, I'd go to the track quite a bit, but even though he's five minutes away, he virtually never goes. Not his thing. And he doesn't gamble on slots either.

Land in nice and/or dense areas is just too valuable so you can understand why you can't just plop down a minor stadium like this on say the waterfront. Plus, Woodbine has all that acreage just sitting there, so might as well fill it out. They're already going to put a whole new residential community within the bounds of the racetrack lands. And horse racing is a dying industry, so if things like this can keep that sport afloat, please, by all means.

Anything at Downsview is the same thing. It would be preferable if the SARS concert or papal visits were in nicer areas, but you use what you got that can accommodate the masses for the event itself and how to get them there.

For comparison sakes to Woodbine, Santa Anita is always going to be nicer given the mountain backdrop in the LA area. Churchill Downs is in a residential community giving that Ivor Wynn/TH Field vibes. Belmont Park outside NYC is in a nicer area. Pimlico in Baltimore, I have no idea about. That covers the Breeders Stake and Triple Crown race tracks. Of course, if TO's racing industry was still at Greenwood, in The Beaches neighbourhood, it would be much nicer, but probably not realistic.

What are some other iconic venues that are held in high regard, but are actually in kind of shitty areas. I heard Wimbledon and Augusta National are.

The Rogers Cup, the TO version, at the national tennis stadium, is kind of the same. Immediately north of the infamous Jane and Finch.

The Canadian Open courses are at courses that I assume are in nice areas. Glen Abbey and Hamilton G&CC are in nice spots. St. George's in Etobicoke I can't recall. Very wooded residential area but can't recall if it's particularly nice. It's not shitty though. What about Royal Montreal?

There are arenas that are Downtown or Downtown adjacent where the immediate neighbourhood is run down, but at least the surrounding area is Downtown and has nice amenities/attractions at least around the corner. Woodbine is not Downtown adjacent, but at least it's only a few minutes up the 427 from the airport.

Pimlico in Baltimore is in a pretty nasty part of town (inner city).

Royal Montreal is in the posh western suburbs but not in an area that would tickle the fancy of SSPers.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Quite the turn. Wonder if it's a fallout due to the unrelated NHL discussions.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The Sens and OSEG working together is quite interesting, considering Melnyk and Ruddy (one of the owners of OSEG) were suing each other over the failed LeBreton deal.

Surely working together on a WJC bid bodes well for the new arena at LeBreton.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Quite the turn. Wonder if it's a fallout due to the unrelated NHL discussions.

The Sens and OSEG working together is quite interesting, considering Melnyk and Ruddy (one of the owners of OSEG) were suing each other over the failed LeBreton deal.

I think it's definitely fallout.

No mention of Gatineau in the articles so I guess we're shut out.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think it's definitely fallout.

No mention of Gatineau in the articles so I guess we're shut out.

Which is too bad. Would be a great showcase for Slush Puppie. Might have a better chance than the run-down Civic Centre.

Originally Posted by JHikka

Surely working together on a WJC bid bodes well for the new arena at LeBreton.

Hope so. We might find out more tomorrow as the NCC reveals who expressed interest in the new LeBreton destination buildings.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Which is too bad. Would be a great showcase for Slush Puppie. Might have a better chance than the run-down Civic Centre.

.

The Quebec-TR bid features Centre Vidéotron and a brand-new rink in Trois-Rivières.

There are several other bids in the race as well.

This is highly-coveted.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The Quebec-TR bid features Centre Vidéotron and a brand-new rink in Trois-Rivières.

There are several other bids in the race as well.

This is highly-coveted.

Yup, we have no chance.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

If the Bombers are involved in the ownership structure then there's not really much incentive for them to not continue plugging matchdays into IGF.

Like any sports owner, Winnipeg Football Club would love to expand their empire.

Would they pay all the freight on a new stadium on their own initiative? No, it would make no sense given that they have no shortage of event dates at IG Field.

But if there was a way to get someone else to chip in, you can bet they'd be all over that. So a partnership with local sports organizations, the U of M, possibly a significant sports event of some kind might be enough to leverage government funding. And a 5,000 seat facility would not be beyond the realm of the possible. It might be more than could be justified for just Valour, but if you throw a women's pro team into the mix, maybe some other programs (Bison soccer, some combo of rugby/football, other soccer), then maybe it starts to make sense.

Anyway, I'm not saying I'm holding my breath waiting for it to happen, just that I'd be surprised if it hasn't crossed Wade Miller's mind.

It doesn't really affect CPL all that much but I still think IGF was built too large. Should have been 25K-27.5K in capacity. Built for a tighter and more compact viewing experience. Oh well.

In my opinion it's a good size for football, it is still reasonably compact. I wouldn't say that it's oversized... even the top rows offer a good view. They are lower than the topmost seats at CanadInns Stadium which were really high as most of the seating was crammed between the goal lines.

For the CPL I have to grudgingly admit that there are simply too many seats... I attended several games last season and I don't think there were ever more than about 3,000 fans at the matches I attended, which meant that the stadium was usually about 90%+ empty for the most part. Half empty is one thing, that's manageable... but being nearly totally empty is hard to overcome no matter how much noise the crowd makes.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

But if there was a way to get someone else to chip in, you can bet they'd be all over that. So a partnership with local sports organizations, the U of M, possibly a significant sports event of some kind might be enough to leverage government funding. And a 5,000 seat facility would not be beyond the realm of the possible. It might be more than could be justified for just Valour, but if you throw a women's pro team into the mix, maybe some other programs (Bison soccer, some combo of rugby/football, other soccer), then maybe it starts to make sense.

Might be a difficult ask for public monies for a stadium they may not necessarily even need if they already have a larger stadium operating. If this were the case the business case would have to be good for Valour to move 14+ matchdays out of IGF to a smaller venue, and for governments to commit monies to a new stadium to use that isn't currently IGF. I don't know.

The main problem is that it's difficult to tell where CPL realistically is given that COVID dented most momentum the league had been building. We only really have one season of data to work off of for full seasons at normal capacity. In that season Valour drew reasonably well (averaging north of 5K, IIRC). Something 5K-7.5K would be reasonable. I think the new Rexdale stadium is 8K? That's likely the starting off point.

Originally Posted by esquire

In my opinion it's a good size for football, it is still reasonably compact. I wouldn't say that it's oversized... even the top rows offer a good view. They are lower than the topmost seats at CanadInns Stadium which were really high as most of the seating was crammed between the goal lines.

Oh boy, here comes JHikka...

Outside of the opening season IGF has only been sold out (for regular season games) against Saskatchewan. Otherwise crowds usually float around 25K-27K for Bombers matches. 33K is simply too large for the main tenant, IMO. It's a supply/demand issue when there's 7-10K tickets either available or unused for matches. Even an IGF at 30K would be more reasonable for the folks working ticket sales.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but with NFL teams these days downsizing their stadiums in the US it was likely a mistake to move to a higher-capacity IGF when they did. There was no way of knowing that a decade-plus ago, I guess.

Originally Posted by esquire

For the CPL I have to grudgingly admit that there are simply too many seats... I attended several games last season and I don't think there were ever more than about 3,000 fans at the matches I attended, which meant that the stadium was usually about 90%+ empty for the most part. Half empty is one thing, that's manageable... but being nearly totally empty is hard to overcome no matter how much noise the crowd makes.

COVID is the obvious asterisk here. 2022 will be a big indicator of where that league currently lies.