JERSEY CITY | 500 Summit Avenue | 458 FT | 42 FLOORS

[C.]

Originally Posted by chris08876

This would be such a cool addition to the area, but I have no idea how they are planning to pull off a tower that high. The height limit is not in feet but in storeys. They can have extra large ceiling heights, but the rendering clearly shows ~60 storeys.

[drumz0rz]

“Journal Square is very close to Manhattan,” Mr. Polack said. With the PATH train service, “in 15 minutes you are on 34th Street.”

Where do these people get these facts and why doesn't anyone fact check them?

According to the PATH's own schedules it takes a train 22 minutes to get from Journal Square to 33rd street on a weekday, and 27 minutes via Hoboken on nights / weekends.

Not only is it 46-80% longer, but that assumes you perfectly time it and catch a train right away. If you just miss a train, you get to wait 10 minutes, extending the travel time to 37 minutes on nights / weekends or 2.46x longer than Mr. Polack is advertising.

Source: PA NY/NJ

[C.]

Originally Posted by drumz0rz

Where do these people get these facts and why doesn't anyone fact check them?

According to the PATH's own schedules it takes a train 22 minutes to get from Journal Square to 33rd street on a weekday, and 27 minutes via Hoboken on nights / weekends.

Not only is it 46-80% longer, but that assumes you perfectly time it and catch a train right away. If you just miss a train, you get to wait 10 minutes, extending the travel time to 37 minutes on nights / weekends or 2.46x longer than Mr. Polack is advertising.

Source: PA NY/NJ

He probably means Manhattan. It's 16 minutes from Journal Square to the Christopher Street PATH station. Train run every 5 minutes during the morning and afternoon rush.

Journal Square Depart @ 9:24AM
Christopher Street Arrive @ 9:40AM

It's even less than 15 minutes if heading to the World Trade Center

Journal Square Depart @ 9:22AM
WTC Arrive @ 9:33AM

11 minutes. Trains also run every 5 minutes.

Still not a bad deal and I live to brag with my friends living in Brooklyn on how fast I can get to the city before they can and pay 1/3rd the rent. But I agree Journal Square to 33rd is 22 minutes and his statement is inaccurate. Late nights through Hoboken is also a big pain. I'm hoping with the incredible growth in PATH ridership that there is demand to justify JSQ to 33rd late night and weekends with no stop in Hoboken. It really is a pain that could be easily fixed by the Port Authority. All you really need is one train serving the HOB - 33 line that can go back and forth overnight. The round trip would be about 30 minutes.

[nyc_alex]

Originally Posted by CIA

He probably means Manhattan. It's 16 minutes from Journal Square to the Christopher Street PATH station. Train run every 5 minutes during the morning and afternoon rush.

Journal Square Depart @ 9:24AM
Christopher Street Arrive @ 9:40AM

It's even less than 15 minutes if heading to the World Trade Center

Journal Square Depart @ 9:22AM
WTC Arrive @ 9:33AM

11 minutes. Trains also run every 5 minutes.

Still not a bad deal and I live to brag with my friends living in Brooklyn on how fast I can get to the city before they can and pay 1/3rd the rent. But I agree Journal Square to 33rd is 22 minutes and his statement is inaccurate. Late nights through Hoboken is also a big pain. I'm hoping with the incredible growth in PATH ridership that there is demand to justify JSQ to 33rd late night and weekends with no stop in Hoboken. It really is a pain that could be easily fixed by the Port Authority. All you really need is one train serving the HOB - 33 line that can go back and forth overnight. The round trip would be about 30 minutes.

I feel like I'd rather keep the Hoboken late night stop and just increase frequency. Not sure which would lower travel times on average - they'd have to study it. But twice the trains with a stop in Hoboken would be better than still having to wait 10-15m but not have the stop. The stop adds maybe 5 minutes?

[drumz0rz]

It adds exactly 5 minutes. I agree they need more frequency. Try riding the PATH at 2am on a Saturday. The cars are more crowded than Friday afternoon rush hour.

[C.]

Originally Posted by drumz0rz

It adds exactly 5 minutes. I agree they need more frequency. Try riding the PATH at 2am on a Saturday. The cars are more crowded than Friday afternoon rush hour.

Packed trains yet the Port Authority wanted to kill late night service...

It adds 5 minutes but it's a very inconvenient 5 minutes (speaking from experience here folks). They also need to add a couple more trains. I'm sure there are a lot of folks that end up taxiing rather than dealing with that mess.

I honestly would prefer they raise fare prices if it could mean better service at night. 2,3,4am should not be standing crowd only. There have been a couple times the train is so packed leaving 33rd that folks waiting down the line at 23, 14, 9th, and Christopher could not get on. It's absolutely ridiculous! Shame on the PA.

[limak116]

Good news everyone! The tower is making a come back! http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...struction.html

[C.]

Moves one step closer, but pity this version will not be built

HAP Investments is moving into the New Jersey market having paid $26.5 million for land in Jersey City on which the developer will erect a $400 million-plus, 42-story mixed-use tower, Commercial Observer has learned. The deal, which involved no brokers, closed on June 1, according to a spokeswoman for HAP.

The 80,000-square-foot parking lot, at 500 Summit Avenue, is in the Journal Square section of Jersey City, and will contain 785,000 square feet for 800 residential rental units and 30,000 square feet for retail. Plus there will be 100 parking spaces. The building will be called HAP Tower for now, according to a source with knowledge of the deal.

HAP, which declined to name the seller, bought the site from Robinhood Plaza, according to past articles which erroneously said that HAP Investments had bought the property in 2014. HAP has tapped Cetra Ruddy as the architect for the 916,955-square-foot building.

https://commercialobserver.com/2016/...y-parking-lot/

[C.]

Another render:

[citybooster]

I'm actually glad the original won't be built. Looked like a jenga mess and miss. The other two are much nicer. Though kinda boxy... hope they keep tweaking. Still, isn't the city council, neighborhood, and mayor's office all dead set against the tower? FAR too big for the neighborhood the critics cry... and the mayor's office most recently did not seem to want to back up the developer. So I'm not sure we should be celebrating very soon.

[C.]

Originally Posted by citybooster

I'm actually glad the original won't be built. Looked like a jenga mess and miss. The other two are much nicer. Though kinda boxy... hope they keep tweaking. Still, isn't the city council, neighborhood, and mayor's office all dead set against the tower? FAR too big for the neighborhood the critics cry... and the mayor's office most recently did not seem to want to back up the developer. So I'm not sure we should be celebrating very soon.

The city got slapped in court and in their appeal. Originally the property was illegally downzoned. The landowner took the city to court, and the city settled to allow this tower to be built. The city then tried to renege on the settlement due to NIMBY pressures and got destroyed in the ensuing lawsuits. The developer had a contract with the prior owner to purchase the property but only after all legal matters had been settled to allow the tower to be built. By closing on June 1, that appears to be the case.

The tower is way too bulky, would love to see a point tower here to compliment the 80-story Journal Squared development across the street.

[citybooster]

So it looks like the NIMBYs will cry but nothing will become of it, then? I definitely agree the design needs work... I wonder how high they will go, as 800 apartments seem a lot and they might have to go kinda fat.

There is another future tower zoned by the Loew's Theater supposed to go 45 stories, so an 8th potential 500+ footer in the Square. I just wish we could get rid of the ugly PATH headquarters.. the plaza around it is getting an upgrade with new restaurants like Chickpea and the second branch of PJ Ryan's, but it seriously lacks in aesthetics.. both the main 15 story building(god, it's a hideous mess) and the plaza itself. How many towers do you think we will wind up with in the Square cluster? Any other possibilities for upward development?

[C.]

Originally Posted by citybooster

So it looks like the NIMBYs will cry but nothing will become of it, then?

I definitely agree the design needs work... I wonder how high they will go, as 800 apartments seem a lot and they might have to go kinda fat.

It's limited to 42 storeys and about 1 million sqft of space. That equates to very blucky 23,800 sqft floorplates.

There is another future tower zoned by the Loew's Theater supposed to go 45 stories, so an 8th potential 500+ footer in the Square.

Can't wait to see what's in store. The area needs it!

I just wish we could get rid of the ugly PATH headquarters.. the plaza around it is getting an upgrade with new restaurants like Chickpea and the second branch of PJ Ryan's, but it seriously lacks in aesthetics.. both the main 15 story building(god, it's a hideous mess) and the plaza itself.

That would be a dream come true. Maybe one day the Port Authority will decided to redevelop the land its owned. It would be a prime spot for an office tower. The PA is exempt from local zoning, but the density the city allocated to the land is more than anyone would ever ask for or need. The zoning allows a FAR of 25 and the land owned by the port authority for PATH plaza is approximately 7 acres. That's about 7.5 million sqft the PA would be allowed to build under existing zoning with no height limit...

[citybooster]

It may take a generation or so... at least til there are a few more residential towers built out and the area becomes so successful it would be a no brainer for a PATH headquarters upgrade. With the potential for a huge tower with a lot of office, retail and public space let's talk genuine 1,200+ ft monster that serves as an exclamation point to the cluster of towers that will highlight the Square revitalization. Not to mention the new low and middle rise development of residences, businesses and cultural centers the wonderful new Journal Square district will comprise of surrounding the central tower cluster... let's start bringing on Jersey City, Journal Square 2040 asap!

LOL at the South Park inspired diss to the NIMBYS.... got me gut busting laughing!


One last thing... so as long as HAP doesn't exceed 42 stories it has every right according to the courts to build this(and I believe they are going to create a public plaza/park right next to the building as a community benefit condition)... how high can they go?

[C.]

Originally Posted by citybooster

LOL at the South Park inspired diss to the NIMBYS.... got me gut busting laughing!

Thanks!

One last thing... so as long as HAP doesn't exceed 42 stories it has every right according to the courts to build this(and I believe they are going to create a public plaza/park right next to the building as a community benefit condition)... how high can they go?

They still have to go through site plan approval. Think of it as the detailed plans for everything from landscaping, traffic circulation, building placement. It must be approved it it complies with zoning, and they have the legal right to build up to 42 stories.

There is no height limit, so in theory, they can build with 20 ft ceilings, realistically, it will probably come at around 500 ft.

[citybooster]

500 ft seems right... and since this land is among the highest points of the city, it would resonate bigger than that. Hopefully the developers will be smart enough to put together a plan that doesn't revive the hopes of the NIMBYs that this tower never get built. The Planning Commission will likely give the developers leeway but hold them to something well thought out, If it does pass muster there will be at least 8 towers in development 500 ft or more(don't forget the 45 story tower by the Loews I mentioned) plus hopefully in the main cluster area there is still room for a couple more. Only thing I didn't like abut the building of the HCCC library building recently is why did they build only 4 stories... that should have been a project incorporated into a much taller tower.

[C.]

The NewJournalSquare reports that this may have up to 800 units.

500 Summit has sat and operated as a parking lot for some time now. The site was recently purchased by HAP Investments for $26.5M, this site is set to be developed with 800 units and 30,000 feet of retail once completed. The site was recently closed but we have yet to see any rumblings of the initial phases of construction from the street.

It's more than anticipated.

[chris08876]

Developers behind Jersey City high-rise project win new court victory

A New Jersey appellate panel last week ruled against Jersey City's attempt to halt a high-rise proposed for a neighborhood just east of Journal Square.

The three judges rejected the city's claim that a 2012 settlement agreement between the city (under the previous administration) and the developers that paved the way for the proposed high-rise should not be honored because it wrongfully tied the hands of the current council.

Redevelopment area zones like the one at the focus of this lawsuit are by nature long-term deals, the judges note in their nine-page ruling.

"The plan at issue here specified it was to remain in effect for a period of 50 years," the ruling says. "It, therefore, would be illogical to conclude that an agreement entered into by a city council in 2012 would not extend beyond that council's term."

The decision affirms a lower court ruling from October 2015 that also sided with the developers, known as Robinhood Plaza.

The city declined to comment on the June 7 ruling. Michael Kates, attorney for the developers, said he expects the city to allow them to move forward with their plans.

"Willful noncompliance at this stage would be unacceptable," Kates said.

The dispute dates back to 2010, when Robinhood sued the city, saying a new redevelopment plan for Journal Square restricted the development potential for a site it purchased at the end of West Street.

====================
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...rt_river_index

[citybooster]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Developers behind Jersey City high-rise project win new court victory




====================
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...rt_river_index

They have stated that unlike other developers, should they win they will get to breaking ground asap. The city has virtually no shot with an appeal to the NJ Supreme Court and should stop now. If certain developers we know all about it recent press coverage can't get their act together and build.. and the Robinhood Plaza people can and are willing, the city ought to get the hell out of their way and allow for this to happen. We can't wait any longer and shouldn't have to.

[chris08876]

Amen to that.

The golden rule really for any developer is to just break ground ASAP. As soon as it can get done, the better.

Jersey City sometimes baffles me. The city wants to grow, and some projects go up easily, but others, in an area that really needs supply to combat ever rising rents, you'd think they would be for it.

Its nonsense really; the city is ego tripping. Journal Square will rise, and lots is planned for the area. Its time to just accept the change. Its making the area better. Journal Square use to be a dump, and now, it's becoming more vibrant with better architecture, and street life.

A lot of Jersey City use to be a dump. It has changed dramatically.

The three judges rejected the city's claim that a 2012 settlement agreement between the city (under the previous administration) and the developers that paved the way for the proposed high-rise should not be honored because it wrongfully tied the hands of the current council.

This is just bureaucratic bullshit. Like much of everything that goes on with government. IMO, the less government involvement in developments, the better.