Public Toilets in Ottawa

[rocketphish]

Lobby group GottaGo! says the city should install more public toilets

Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: February 20, 2015, Last Updated: February 20, 2015 6:12 PM EST



When Eric McCabe goes somewhere new, one of the first things he does is scout out where the nearest toilets are.

The active 70-year-old has a prostate issue — as do so many older men — and access to a washroom is of supreme importance and something he considers before venturing on an outing. A half-day of cross-country skiing in the Gatineaus? No problem — there are plenty of well-maintained outhouse-type facilities along the National Capital Commission routes. Taking the bus downtown? A much riskier proposition.

If McCabe is embarrassed to discuss his biological needs, he certainly doesn’t show it. Indeed, he talked openly about it at the city’s first budget consultation.

That might sound like an odd venue to talk about your health issues. But McCabe is part of the GottaGo! Campaign that’s been lobbying councillors to install public toilets in the capital. The group’s ultimate goal is for the city to develop a fully fledged policy on making sure that the public has access to toilets in high-traffic parts of the city.

But in the short term, GottaGo! is pressing councillors to include public washrooms in the new light-rail stations and at park-and-ride facilities. At the very least, the group argues, the city should install washrooms at Bayview and Hurdman stations where there aren’t any other facilities nearby. And they’re recommending that the city provide subsidies to some private businesses in exchange for letting non-customers use their washrooms.

“We want people to have a sustainable system,” says Joan Kuyek, chair of the GottaGo! campaign. “If you’re using the Confederation Line (and) somewhere along that line you need to go, then what?”

The GottaGo! folks are right, of course. (They are also to be applauded for their efforts: showing up at each consultation and committee meeting, lobbying councillors and generally being civicly engaged in fighting for this basic right.)

Of course, when it comes to public toilets, there are safety and cleanliness concerns, to say nothing of the funds to maintain them. Some North American transit systems have shut down their washrooms over the years. But many cities are embracing the public toilet. In Washington, D.C., its latest rail addition — the Silver Line — included publicly accessible washrooms in each of the five new stations. But many cities in Europe, as well as Japan and Korea, provide public toilets, many of them at least partially self-cleaning. Some require a small payment to enter. In Toronto, some of the subway stations also offer public washrooms.

The fact is, other cities are able to provide access to facilities. Why not Ottawa?

We’re spending billions on a rapid transit system that we hope will get people out of their cars. But if seniors, men with prostate issues, folks with illnesses (from Crohn’s to colitis to irritable bowl syndrome), people with disabilities or parents with young children are worried about what they’re going to do if they get caught short on a train with no place to go, then they may decide not to take transit. Worse, they may decide it’s too much trouble to leave the house.

The city’s contract with the Rideau Transit Group — the consortium building the Confederation Line — calls for no public washrooms in the station. That decision may turn out to be one of the casualties of council approving the massive contract in one meeting. Voting on the contract was such a major decision, with so much at stake, that many smaller issues were glossed over or missed. (Another example: that all the buses from the Transitway would be routed onto Scott and Albert streets. The detail was in the report that council approved, but was overlooked in the enormity of the day.)

Certainly including washrooms in the light-rail plan now instead of at the start is more difficult, but it shouldn’t be impossible. The city hasn’t yet decided whether to allow businesses to open up in LRT stations, so there’s no reason that we couldn’t add washrooms to that discussion.

Queries to the city about public toilets in new LRT stations this week remained unanswered. But to many people, it’s a no-brainer. How can we not offer up this basic service, at least in places where no other option exists?

As Kuyek puts it, if the city refuses to provide accessible toilets, “what are we saying? That some people can’t take transit? What does that say about us?”

Nothing very good.

jchianello@ottawacitizen.com
twitter.com/jchianello

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-col-chianello

[EdFromOttawa]

Couldn't agree more. My mind was blown visiting places like Copenhagen. Free, easily accessible, clean public/tourist washrooms EVERYWHERE. Like enough that they had their own symbol on city maps and I was never concerned I would be caught with no options.

Even in London where it (usually) costs money. I don't mind paying a buck or two to keep graffiti/vandalism down and have access to toilets when I need them. Could be a decent source of revenue for the city too if the right model is used?

[acottawa]

I wish one of these pro-toilet groups would come up with a specific proposal. Where do they want it, how much will it cost to build, how much will security and cleaning cost? Will there be a charge? Then they could go to the city or NCC or a BIA with a specific proposal.

Although I'm not sure that new public toilets would be anymore convenient than existing facilities in the downtown area that people use as de facto public toilets (parliament hill, city hall, byward market building, Rideau Centre, infocentre, many downtown office buildings, hotels, most fast food places, etc)

[UrbOttawa]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I wish one of these pro-toilet groups would come up with a specific proposal. Where do they want it, how much will it cost to build, how much will security and cleaning cost? Will there be a charge? Then they could go to the city or NCC or a BIA with a specific proposal.

I worked on some very very preliminary designs for Gottago and they have a few specific locations mapped out such as in the market (street urinals + toilet), bayview station, as well as various parks and park & rides.

Originally Posted by acottawa

Although I'm not sure that new public toilets would be anymore convenient than existing facilities in the downtown area that people use as de facto public toilets (parliament hill, city hall, byward market building, Rideau Centre, infocentre, many downtown office buildings, hotels, most fast food places, etc)

Well as far as the market goes, the toilet in the market building itself closes at 6 i believe, so there ends up being quite a bit of peeing in and around the parking garages by bar goers.

[danishh]

labour and security costs are a big issue, but we're really close to surmounting it. There's a pilot going on in atlanta right now for a couple of 'automatic' toilets in transit stations. The doors are monitored by video remotely, the toilets self clean, and sound an alarm after 10 minutes use.

installation cost is ~100k.

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/...ations/385549/


I'd assume there are still labour costs for the remote monitoring and for restocking of the bathroom, and transit police might need to be called in at some point, but those types of operating costs are probably acceptable.

If I was advising the executive of gottago, i'd be lobbying the city for space for 2 or 3 of these at every station. Then launch a fundraising campaign for the 2-3M in capital costs required.

[DEWLine]

Certainly a problem that's needed addressing for decades.

[CongoJack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I wish one of these pro-toilet groups would come up with a specific proposal. Where do they want it, how much will it cost to build, how much will security and cleaning cost? Will there be a charge? Then they could go to the city or NCC or a BIA with a specific proposal.

Although I'm not sure that new public toilets would be anymore convenient than existing facilities in the downtown area that people use as de facto public toilets (parliament hill, city hall, byward market building, Rideau Centre, infocentre, many downtown office buildings, hotels, most fast food places, etc)

Coming up with specific proposals may be a challenge for groups that wouldn't have access to much of the information that would impact the cost of adding toilets. It would be like asking a contractor to give a quote on adding a second bathroom to a house without telling them anything about the house. Suggested locations and ballpark estimates would be possible, but not anything that could be used for decision-making purposes.

I'm also leery of telling advocacy groups that the onus is on them to analyze a situation and come up with a solution. Here we are talking about accessibility for individuals with disabilities, so I think it is incumbent on government to take the lead in consultation with different groups.

Lastly, a lot could be done with existing toilets that could make new toilets unnecessary in many areas; however, as it stands their simple physical existence does not address the issue. For which hours are they open to the public? Is there location clearly advertised? Are they actually open to the public, or are they really meant only for customers? If so, do we want to put people in a situation where they have to explain to some cashier or security guard that they can't wait to go?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by CongoJack

Coming up with specific proposals may be a challenge for groups that wouldn't have access to much of the information that would impact the cost of adding toilets. It would be like asking a contractor to give a quote on adding a second bathroom to a house without telling them anything about the house. Suggested locations and ballpark estimates would be possible, but not anything that could be used for decision-making purposes.

I'm also leery of telling advocacy groups that the onus is on them to analyze a situation and come up with a solution. Here we are talking about accessibility for individuals with disabilities, so I think it is incumbent on government to take the lead in consultation with different groups.

Lastly, a lot could be done with existing toilets that could make new toilets unnecessary in many areas; however, as it stands their simple physical existence does not address the issue. For which hours are they open to the public? Is there location clearly advertised? Are they actually open to the public, or are they really meant only for customers? If so, do we want to put people in a situation where they have to explain to some cashier or security guard that they can't wait to go?

I take your point that community groups don't necessarily have the capacity to put together super detailed plans, but I think they need to do a better job of explaining what they want. Every 6 months the citizen runs an article on how there are not enough public toilets and interviews someone with a medical condition that requires them to use a toilet frequently but those articles rarely provide any details on where and when the problem is occurring, which is vital information to developing a solution. The person interviewed in the article above seems to suggest the bus ride is a concern, so building more public washrooms downtown (or in LRT stations for that matter) wouldn't help that very much.

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I take your point that community groups don't necessarily have the capacity to put together super detailed plans, but I think they need to do a better job of explaining what they want. Every 6 months the citizen runs an article on how there are not enough public toilets and interviews someone with a medical condition that requires them to use a toilet frequently but those articles rarely provide any details on where and when the problem is occurring, which is vital information to developing a solution. The person interviewed in the article above seems to suggest the bus ride is a concern, so building more public washrooms downtown (or in LRT stations for that matter) wouldn't help that very much.

I think they mean to imply that, on a high-frequency bus corridor like the current transitway, you should be able to get off your bus, go to the bathroom, and get on another bus soon after that.

[CongoJack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I take your point that community groups don't necessarily have the capacity to put together super detailed plans, but I think they need to do a better job of explaining what they want. Every 6 months the citizen runs an article on how there are not enough public toilets and interviews someone with a medical condition that requires them to use a toilet frequently but those articles rarely provide any details on where and when the problem is occurring, which is vital information to developing a solution. The person interviewed in the article above seems to suggest the bus ride is a concern, so building more public washrooms downtown (or in LRT stations for that matter) wouldn't help that very much.

Agreed. Toilets available everywhere all the time is an unobtainable goal and investments must be strategic. I'd suggest first looking at simply placing signage indicating the location and hours of existing washrooms.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I take your point that community groups don't necessarily have the capacity to put together super detailed plans, but I think they need to do a better job of explaining what they want. Every 6 months the citizen runs an article on how there are not enough public toilets and interviews someone with a medical condition that requires them to use a toilet frequently but those articles rarely provide any details on where and when the problem is occurring, which is vital information to developing a solution. The person interviewed in the article above seems to suggest the bus ride is a concern, so building more public washrooms downtown (or in LRT stations for that matter) wouldn't help that very much.

+1. I can't stand activists and politicians who complain about how something is a problem without any ideas on how to fix it.

[c_speed3108]

The other issue I found with some of the comments was that some of the perceived needs can be address by moving the activity elsewhere.

For instance one of the "complaints" was seniors in a Tai Chi group in Dundonald Park, and the first thing I thought is rather than building an expensive washroom, perhaps this activity could simply be moved somewhere where there already is washrooms. I know a number of city parks that have community centre-type buildings in them. Perhaps they would be a better location, solving the problem without expense....

[rocketphish]

Gotta Go? Carleton students design innovative public potties

By Dani-elle Dube, Ottawa Sun
First posted: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 01:00 PM EST | Updated: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 01:09 PM EST



When you gotta go, you gotta go. But what if there's nowhere to go?

That's a problem second year students of Carleton University's industrial design program hope to solve.

As part of a class project in collaboration with the GottaGo! campaign, 48 students were divided into 8 teams and came up with public washroom designs for some of Ottawa's highest-traffic locations. Their scale models were presented to students and faculty Wednesday.

"We thought that this project would help stimulate discussion," said Prof. Joan Kuyek. "We think that the provision of public toilets is essential."

The sites were chosen by GottaGo!, a campaign that advocates for clean and safe public toilets and water fountains in parks, transit stops and other public places.

The eight sites chosen were the Eagleson OC Transpo Park and Ride, Dundonald Park, Strathcona Park, Optimiste Park, Rideau Street, the Byward Market, the Ottawa River Pathway and the Bayview Station.

"Washrooms are important and a human need obviously," said Isaac Mazer, one of the designers for the Rideau Street model. "It's important today for large cities like Ottawa to have these facilities available for public use."

The students hope to present their scale models to councillors at the City of Ottawa, but have yet to hear back from ciy officials.

If this were to happen, Kuyek said it's a great opportunit to get people talking about the campaign.

"We just think that this is a really innovative way to get things going," said Kuyek. "These aren't necessarily the designs that would be used but they give you an idea of the range of ideas of how designs like these could work and incorporate safety, cleanliness and accessibility."

dani-elle.dube@sunmedia.ca

http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/02/25/...public-potties

[rocketphish]

Ottawa Council gets options for public washroom shopping

By Jon Willing, Ottawa Sun
First posted: Friday, May 15, 2015 11:07 AM EDT | Updated: Friday, May 15, 2015 11:15 AM EDT

If a downtown project goes ahead, the city can to choose between the Chevy version of a public washroom, a Cadillac version, or something in between.

Staff are considering Dundonald Park on Somerset St., between Bay and Lyon streets, for a pilot project to create a public washroom.

Several community groups, such as the Gotta Go campaign, have been calling on the city to install more public washrooms. Along with Somerset Coun. Catherine McKenney, they have identified the park as a good spot to try out a new loo.

There currently is no motion on the table to install public washrooms. McKenney asked the infrastructure department for best practices when it comes to the washrooms.

City staff have been researching public potties and have provided council with four options that range from a mobile outhouse to a self-cleaning washroom.

The outhouse option -- like the johnny-on-the-spots at festivals -- would cost $1,500 to rent annually and the city would want to surround part of it with a $1,000 screen to prevent vandalism.

A precast concrete washroom, which wouldn't be used in cold weather, would cost $125,000, while an all-season upgrade would cost $300,000-$350,000.

The luxury washroom, at a cost of $400,000, would have users drop in a coin or token and have 20 minutes of privacy before the door unlocked. When person leaves, the door locks and the entire interior is automatically spray washed and sanitized. The City of Toronto is installing 20 of these units over 20 years.

The operations, depending on the type of washroom installed, range from $5,000-$100,000.

"To facilitate a standalone public washroom in a pilot project, such as Dundonald Park, the location and design need to be carefully considered in regards to public safety and ongoing operation and maintenance," staff told McKenney a written response this week.

jon.willing@sunmedia.ca
Twitter: @JonathanWilling

http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/05/15/...hroom-shopping

[eltodesukane]

At the very least, there should be public toilets in all Transitway stations and all future LRT stations.
Of course, there are no plan to do so.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

At the very least, there should be public toilets in all Transitway stations and all future LRT stations.
Of course, there are no plan to do so.

All downtown stations will be directly connected to buildings, so people will have access to washrooms during business hours.

I agree major transfer stations and suburban hub stations surrounded by Park and Rides should have them built in.

[DEWLine]

"...during business hours."

That's the problem.

[DarthVader_1961]

Just found this article

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...deas-1.3083551

[J.OT13]

I wonder if it might be cheaper to strike a deal with property owners to keep their communal areas (or parts of them) open at night for the use of the washrooms. If it works with the Rideau, why not the PdVs underground or SunLife's atrium?

[DEWLine]

Interesting proposal.