Sparks Street

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by m0nkyman

Lack of parking does affect the retail mix, as it limits it to things people are willing to carry for a few blocks. Forget furniture stores, stereo stores, art galleries etc. etc. That lack of retail mix means that you can't do all your shopping in one place, so you end up going elsewhere when you do your errands for efficiency's sake. That's what has killed Sparks. Being able to park near a store makes a huge difference, even if it's just loading zones.

The pedestrian mall in downtown Cardiff, Wales had no parking on it and very little in the area last time I visited, but it had a lot of people. They didn't even have a lot of residential density in the immediate area. What they had was a lot of anchor tenants and clothing stores that people wanted. I guess North America is different.

[J.OT13]

I don't get it. How will they keep track of this. You can't buy 50$ worth of stuff and then park. You usually have to pay your parking before leaving your car (on the street).

Anyway, I don't think we should allow cars under any circumstances. As for bikes, I wouldn't allow free roam through Sparks, but bike lanes might be a good idea.

Retail mix is lacking. It's all touristy shops and an HMV. The fact that everything is closed by 5pm also doesn't help. It kind of explains why the place is dead after 5pm, yet no one else seems to have cracked the code.

I think that the best Sparks street can hope for as of today is becoming yet another bar district. As much as having it a high fashion destination would be interesting, Ottawa is still to small and middle class to support it. Everything high class will likely open on/in Rideau.

[m0nkyman]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

The pedestrian mall in downtown Cardiff, Wales had no parking on it and very little in the area last time I visited, but it had a lot of people. They didn't even have a lot of residential density in the immediate area. What they had was a lot of anchor tenants and clothing stores that people wanted. I guess North America is different.

Having never been to Cardiff, I find it difficult to respond. I do know that Sparks St in Ottawa and Stephen Ave in Calgary are almost identical in that they are insanely busy for the lunch hour all summer, and are basically dead zones at all other times of the day and year. I know that they both have an almost identical mix of restaurants aimed at the lunch crowd, mid range clothing stores, with a few high end mixed in, some jewellery, book stores, an HMV, and some tourist traps. Stephen Ave is in better shape due to it's numerous connections to the Plus 15 and the anchor of a Convention Centre, but they are definitely kissing cousins. Calgary also tends to brag about how great it is, so they talk about how great Stephen Ave is, and Ottawa tends to brag about how boring we are so we talk about how.....

[lrt's friend]

We have made so many mistakes on Sparks Street, it is incredible. I don't know why the city did not require every redevelopment on Sparks Street to have street level retail/restaurant space. It is no wonder the place is dead when building after building was rebuilt with dead walls facing Sparks Street. How in the world can we expect to have pedestrian traffic if every second building has no possibility of retail. Just look at how many banks there are with no street presence. The big bank block at Metcalfe which replaced retail stores. The Bank of Nova Scotia that replaced Murphy-Gambles. Woolworths being replaced by the CBC. 240 sparks that internalized its retail and is now dying as government security increases.

I don't believe that turning Sparks Street into a bicycle route is the answer. What are cyclists buying? Not much.

A grocery may help to bring foot traffic but it is not a draw for people to come downtown. I would rather see the grocery store off of Sparks Street but close by.

We need a mix of interesting shops but it is so hard to be an independent retailer these days. And that is part of the problem. But it is possible as the Glebe and other locations demonstrate. How do we get some of that onto Sparks Street?

The restaurants catering specifically to office workers should mostly be on side streets. We need Sparks to become trendy some how. And then we need a parking garage (like we used to have) that specifically caters to Sparks Street shoppers. Then you can give them free parking with purchases. Not everybody going to trendy shops will want to use the subway.

[waterloowarrior]

I dont see parking as a major issue. There is already free parking on evenings and weekends and the mall is relatively dead.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

I dont see parking as a major issue. There is already free parking on evenings and weekends and the mall is relatively dead.

But unless there is a special event, why would you go there? It would be different if there was quality shopping available.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I don't believe that turning Sparks Street into a bicycle route is the answer. What are cyclists buying? Not much.

Why would you say that? This comment is contrary to the recent studies I've seen which have shown that cyclists do spend considerable amounts of money and actually provide a significant boost to storefront retail. Surely having more people on the street is desirable, regardless of the mode of transportation. Not sure that a bike lane would work very well, but banning bikes entirely is just silly.

[acottawa]

The problem is Sparks street shares almost no characteristics with the world's successful pedestrian streets
1. It is in an office area rather than a retail, entertainment or residential area (so it is hardly surprising it attracts businesses catering to daytime office workers that close at 5:00pm).
2. It connects an empty, windswept plaza to a cliff (in Europe most of these streets connect railway stations to market squares - even William Street gets a lot of traffic linking the Rideau Centre to Byward Market).
3. There is not a single driver of pedestrian traffic (no museum, shopping centre, transit facility, entertainment facility).

To me all the various schemes to revitalize sparks street are doomed to failure because nothing changes the fundamentals, so you might as well allow bicycles, cars, parking, etc. along major parts of the street.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The problem is Sparks street shares almost no characteristics with the world's successful pedestrian streets
1. It is in an office area rather than a retail, entertainment or residential area (so it is hardly surprising it attracts businesses catering to daytime office workers that close at 5:00pm).
2. It connects an empty, windswept plaza to a cliff (in Europe most of these streets connect railway stations to market squares - even William Street gets a lot of traffic linking the Rideau Centre to Byward Market).
3. There is not a single driver of pedestrian traffic (no museum, shopping centre, transit facility, entertainment facility).

To me all the various schemes to revitalize sparks street are doomed to failure because nothing changes the fundamentals, so you might as well allow bicycles, cars, parking, etc. along major parts of the street.

I agree with you, as pessimistic as it is. Although to point out, there is a museum on Sparks (I think it's still there), the Currency Museum. And there will be LRT not to far from it, that might help a bit?

[Aylmer]

I think it would be very important to have at least small entrances to the LRT stations on Sparks: considering it's one of the more pleasant streets to walk down in Downtown, direct entrances would enliven the street with through-traffic and encourage more resident-oriented businesses to set up shop along there.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The problem is Sparks street shares almost no characteristics with the world's successful pedestrian streets
1. It is in an office area rather than a retail, entertainment or residential area (so it is hardly surprising it attracts businesses catering to daytime office workers that close at 5:00pm).
2. It connects an empty, windswept plaza to a cliff (in Europe most of these streets connect railway stations to market squares - even William Street gets a lot of traffic linking the Rideau Centre to Byward Market).
3. There is not a single driver of pedestrian traffic (no museum, shopping centre, transit facility, entertainment facility).

To me all the various schemes to revitalize sparks street are doomed to failure because nothing changes the fundamentals, so you might as well allow bicycles, cars, parking, etc. along major parts of the street.

I agree with points 1-2, because Sparks is busy at lunch time, especially in the summer. It provides a useful place for people to have a lunch other than a 'sad salad' at their desk.

While I would love to see a rejuvenated Sparks, I think it's probably ok, actually, that it serves the purpose as a pedestrian mall used primarily by office workers and tourists to eat lunch and buy souvenirs in the summer time.

The LRT and new condos will help, sure, but until the leasing structure of the street (short term, with many conditions imposed by Goverment landlords) changes, we won't see a serious retail revitalization. It's one thing the Sparks BIA has got right, is that they've decided to stop fighting this and try to make it better with the retail mix it kind of already has.

The zipline would still be cool, BTW.

[lrt's friend]

3. There is not a single driver of pedestrian traffic (no museum, shopping centre, transit facility, entertainment facility).

This is the concept of anchor tenants mentioned previously. If the retail sector will not join in and create anchors, then public facilities could do the same as suggested. For example, a much expanded and improved central library, the long proposed portrait gallery being just around the corner and what I have always advocated is a downtown casino in one or more of the underutilized heritage buildings with a stipulation that there would be no restaurants within the casino itself. This would force pedestrian traffic out onto the street. We have one pillar coming with the subway just a block away and additional residential development will also bring off hour life to the street. With additional pedestrian traffic, the retail mix will improve.

[Kitchissippi]

There is more than ample parking close to Sparks at the WEP, 240 Sparks and other underground garages. I sometimes drive into downtown for meetings where I have to bring bulky presentation material and I rarely have problems finding a spot at the WEP for $6 if I'm there for an hour.

The main issues I see preventing Sparks (and downtown retail in general) from succeeding would be the reluctance of Ottawans to embrace true urban living, and the failure of businesses to cater to the lifestyle. Real urban living involves consuming in smaller quantities and thus shopping more often. In the urban market "value added" usually translates to better quality and service rather than increased quantity, going against the prevalent Costco/Walmart shopping mentality. It has been proven in many places that pedestrians and cyclists are more likely to be loyal customers and reward good retailers by returning more often (A 2009 study of Bloor Street in Toronto found that customers who arrive by foot and bicycle visit the most often and spend the most money per month).

It will be a long process, but the condo development downtown will need need to be matched by smart businesses in the area. The management and merchants of Sparks will need to shift their focus from just tourism and the lunch crowd to servicing an increasingly sophisticated, urban-savvy downtown population which in turn could attract more local residents to frequent the area, especially those who live along the LRT line.

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by defishel

I agree with you, as pessimistic as it is. Although to point out, there is a museum on Sparks (I think it's still there), the Currency Museum. And there will be LRT not to far from it, that might help a bit?

How many people are even aware that the Currency Museum exists?

[OTSkyline]

I agree that a big problem is the lack of anchors and specialty shops but what I also think is a big problem is the lack of people living in downtown in general...

I know that this is technically considered the CBD so it's supposed to be mostly offices and businesses but still... Imagine 4, 5, 7, 10 new apartment or condo towers in the vicinity (on Sparks, Queen, Bank, Slater etc...) THEN you have a nice population living in the area who are likely to walk down the block to Sparks and shop or buy necessities. Heck, they would most likelye also visit the cinema at WEP. But the reality is that right now there is VERY little people who live in the "north" portion of downtown (anything north of Laurier) and until more condos and people move there OR more one-of-a-kind destination are ste up on Sparks, nothing will change.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

I agree that a big problem is the lack of anchors and specialty shops but what I also think is a big problem is the lack of people living in downtown in general...

I know that this is technically considered the CBD so it's supposed to be mostly offices and businesses but still... Imagine 4, 5, 7, 10 new apartment or condo towers in the vicinity (on Sparks, Queen, Bank, Slater etc...) THEN you have a nice population living in the area who are likely to walk down the block to Sparks and shop or buy necessities. Heck, they would most likelye also visit the cinema at WEP. But the reality is that right now there is VERY little people who live in the "north" portion of downtown (anything north of Laurier) and until more condos and people move there OR more one-of-a-kind destination are ste up on Sparks, nothing will change.

I remember seeing an aerial photo taken in the 1960s that clearly showed how much of downtown had been hollowed out and replaced with surface parking lots. This was the beginning of the decay of downtown retail and Sparks Street was the most vulnerable. The surface lots have now been largely replaced with office buildings and zero population but this has been compounded by the decline of household sizes particularly in the central neighbourhoods. So, yes we need population right downtown but we also need destination retailers to attract people from a broader area. I remember visiting a pedestrian mall in downtown Amersterdam. It was an amazing place for the number of pedestrians and the high end retailers. There were lots of people living nearby but it was also the place to be for the whole city. Yes, the locals will be the most frequent customers but to be vibrant, it needs to draw in people from a much larger area. If you look at vibrant downtowns like in Montreal and Toronto, you will see lots of population just blocks away and high quality transit that connects a much larger portion of the city.

We are having problems because our downtown has become almost entirely office buildings with residential being pushed further and further away. I believe the problems with redeveloping Lebreton Flats has also contributed to the problem with it being mostly empty for 50 years. Downtown has almost become an island with Sparks Street one of the most isolated streets. So downtown condo development and redeveloping Lebreton Flats and the Domtar property are keys to reviving downtown.

Improving transit is also important and this needs to occur beyond just the Confederation Line. I am concerned that in our hurry to get people to use the Confederation Line, we will reduce easy downtown access too much. Other transit routes need frequent service and decent coverage. Yes, express routes are not sustainable but I get nervous when I see previous proposals that require transfers even from central neighbourhoods such as Preston Street.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I remember seeing an aerial photo taken in the 1960s that clearly showed how much of downtown had been hollowed out and replaced with surface parking lots. This was the beginning of the decay of downtown retail and Sparks Street was the most vulnerable. The surface lots have now been largely replaced with office buildings and zero population but this has been compounded by the decline of household sizes particularly in the central neighbourhoods. So, yes we need population right downtown but we also need destination retailers to attract people from a broader area. I remember visiting a pedestrian mall in downtown Amersterdam. It was an amazing place for the number of pedestrians and the high end retailers. There were lots of people living nearby but it was also the place to be for the whole city. Yes, the locals will be the most frequent customers but to be vibrant, it needs to draw in people from a much larger area. If you look at vibrant downtowns like in Montreal and Toronto, you will see lots of population just blocks away and high quality transit that connects a much larger portion of the city.

We are having problems because our downtown has become almost entirely office buildings with residential being pushed further and further away. I believe the problems with redeveloping Lebreton Flats has also contributed to the problem with it being mostly empty for 50 years. Downtown has almost become an island with Sparks Street one of the most isolated streets. So downtown condo development and redeveloping Lebreton Flats and the Domtar property are keys to reviving downtown.

Improving transit is also important and this needs to occur beyond just the Confederation Line. I am concerned that in our hurry to get people to use the Confederation Line, we will reduce easy downtown access too much. Other transit routes need frequent service and decent coverage. Yes, express routes are not sustainable but I get nervous when I see previous proposals that require transfers even from central neighbourhoods such as Preston Street.

Transfers aren't necessarily a huge problem, provided that they are combined with frequent service. My fear is that the frequent service will never materialize, given that we don't even have it on streets like Bronson.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

The main issues I see preventing Sparks (and downtown retail in general) from succeeding would be the reluctance of Ottawans to embrace true urban living, and the failure of businesses to cater to the lifestyle. Real urban living involves consuming in smaller quantities and thus shopping more often. In the urban market "value added" usually translates to better quality and service rather than increased quantity, going against the prevalent Costco/Walmart shopping mentality. It has been proven in many places that pedestrians and cyclists are more likely to be loyal customers and reward good retailers by returning more often (A 2009 study of Bloor Street in Toronto found that customers who arrive by foot and bicycle visit the most often and spend the most money per month).

It will be a long process, but the condo development downtown will need need to be matched by smart businesses in the area. The management and merchants of Sparks will need to shift their focus from just tourism and the lunch crowd to servicing an increasingly sophisticated, urban-savvy downtown population which in turn could attract more local residents to frequent the area, especially those who live along the LRT line.

I think the opposite is happening - condo owners may want their beer and coffee downtown, but when it comes time to spend money it is off to the inner suburbs (by car or using a rapid transit system that is well-connected to big box stores). Partly it is a quality issue (Hartmans sucks, Country Boy is nice), partly it is a price issue (Costco is cheap, Hartmans is expensive), but most condo owners grew up in the suburbs and may have ditched the suburban commute, but like the suburban shopping experience.

It isn't just Ottawa BTW, thousands of Parisians and Romans flock to Ikea and other big box stores every weekend.

[Buggys]

I think here are less people living downtown mostly because it's more expensive to buy a decent condition house or condo.

For many of those near the inner edge of the greenbelt and in the suburbs, public transportation would be much slower than driving, so taking the car would feel like the lesser evil. However, many also dread having to fight traffic and pay expensive parking. What would be the point of all the hassle getting to and from downtown if there's no big incentive like much better entertainment or retail?

Land and space rental prices downtown are probably more expensive than the outskirts. Why would a company not want to save that expense when people would happily flock to the outskirts in their cars?

It's a vicious cycle. Question is, how can the cycle be broken?

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by Buggys

I think here are less people living downtown mostly because it's more expensive to buy a decent condition house or condo.

For many of those near the inner edge of the greenbelt and in the suburbs, public transportation would be much slower than driving, so taking the car would feel like the lesser evil. However, many also dread having to fight traffic and pay expensive parking. What would be the point of all the hassle getting to and from downtown if there's no big incentive like much better entertainment or retail?

Land and space rental prices downtown are probably more expensive than the outskirts. Why would a company not want to save that expense when people would happily flock to the outskirts in their cars? That's at least what I read in A Country of Cities: An Manifesto for an Urban America.

It's a vicious cycle. Question is, how can the cycle be broken?

Government intervention? To stop policies that subsidize the suburbs and disadvantage the downtown as happened after the War. I know this is the case with the States, but it may be the case for Canada, too. At least, that's what I'm reading in A Country of Cities: A Manifesto for an Urban America.