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  #61  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2023, 1:00 AM
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The distance is about 340 miles - perhaps you got the two confused.

Current scheduled times for VIA are about 4:45 for the fastest trip, though it’s usually slower, and is late more often than it is on time as a result of freight train delays.

Historically VIA managed to operate a few 4:00 trips using tilting LRC trains, but those haven’t operated in several decades.

HFR as it stands today apparently plans for a much more consistent 4:00 trip time, with a max speed of 200km/h (125mph). The infrastructure minister, apparently on the prompting of bidders, is now also asking for options for higher speeds, which will likely result in even shorter travel times. Exactly what that looks like we have yet to see. We also do not know if that option will even be chosen.

Previous studies for High Speed Rail in the corridor have identified travel times of around 2.5 hours if Canada was to go the “full HSR” route like California is attempting. This will likely not happen. If we do get speeds higher than 200km/h in the final design, I would still be surprised if we get travel times better than 3.5 hours.
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  #62  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2023, 1:23 AM
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Originally Posted by wanderer34 View Post
What I was saying is that in order for the route to truly be HSR, it has to be at least 150 mph+. Anything less isn't HSR, and you have to consider the estimated time of arrival, which along with the speed, is just as important in getting this project enough political & popular support, regardless of whether it uses the lakeshore alignment or a new alignment, it really doesn't matter, as long as the project has 150 mph+, the speed & ETA is very important in order for it to be successful & utilized heavily.
I agree that it wouldn't be considered HSR without those higher speeds. The only thing I was correcting was the claim that higher speeds are necessary for success. The improved service would (continue to) be successful and heavily utilized either way.
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  #63  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 4:33 PM
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https://www.journaldemontreal.com/20...bec-et-toronto

Google translation;
Quote:
More profitable, better for the environment: the Trudeau government should put aside its high-frequency train project (TGF) between Quebec and Toronto to focus on high speed, insists the French giant Alstom.

"As long as you put sums like these, as much as is in the most profitable investment possible and which brings the impact both economic and societal the highest", confides to the Journal Michael Keroullé, president of Alstom for the Americas.

Mr. Keroullé argues that a high-speed train costs 20 to 30% more than a slower version. It is possibly more. But in the end, the investment is more profitable because more people are using it, he argues.


"We see it in all the countries that have made this choice: with speed, we are shifting the mode of transport [from the car and the plane to the train] much more than what was initially envisaged", affirms the leader.

Alstom, of which the Caisse de depot is the largest shareholder with a 17.5% stake, is making the exit because it said it felt, last fall, an "openness" from Ottawa to the idea of finance a train that would have a maximum speed of 300 km/h.

In March 2022, in its “request for expressions of interest” for the project, Transport Canada mentioned a maximum speed of 200 km/h, which is barely more than the maximum speed of current VIA Rail trains.

About fifty companies responded to the government's call, including several who expressed their desire to go beyond 200 km/h.

Result: In October, the government published an update in which it promises to give “flexibility” to companies to offer “higher speeds on certain segments”.


Aim for less than three hours

According to Alstom, the objective should be to cut the travel time between Toronto and Montreal from five hours to less than three hours.

"There, the benefit of the train becomes obvious," says Michael Keroullé. This is what happened on all lines in all the countries in which we had this same debate. »

Reached by Le Journal , the office of the federal Minister of Transport, Omar Alghabra, did not want to comment on the possibility that the TGF project be transformed into a TGV.

In the spring of 2021, Le Journal reported on tensions within the federal government between the proponents of the two scenarios. According to our sources, Michael Sabia, Deputy Minister of Finance, and Catherine McKenna, then Minister of Infrastructure, were campaigning for a TGV between Montreal and Toronto which would have set Quebec aside.

In December, Mr. Alghabra announced the creation of a subsidiary of VIA Rail to manage the TGF project. A former Hydro-Québec executive, Marie-José Nadeau, has been named vice-chairman of the entity's board of directors.

In May, Cynthia Garneau caused a surprise by resigning from her position as CEO of VIA after three years in office.
I wonder if we will end up with 300km/h rail between Toronto and Montreal and he 200km/h option to Quebec. Honestly, that is what makes the most sense.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
I wonder if we will end up with 300km/h rail between Toronto and Montreal and he 200km/h option to Quebec. Honestly, that is what makes the most sense.
I'm normally a "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" kind of guy, but I'm inclined to agree here.

The state of the right of way between Peterborough and Ottawa (the majority of the route length) is in such poor shape that it would need significant engineering work to travel at 200 km/h. Might as well build it to 300 km/h standards. Some of the other barriers to high speed operation, like grade separation everywhere, are less of a concern because this route travels through remote wilderness with very few road crossings.

There are other obstacles that need to be dealt with to make the line time competitive, whether at 200 km/h or 300 km/h. Crossing Peterborough on the existing alignment will be very slow and they have to replace the Trent Severn canal bridge (currently a 120 year old swing bridge) in any case. Might as well build an entirely new alignment that allows Peterborough to be bypassed at speed.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 4:59 PM
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Ugh... This does not sound good to me. We've been bickering about HSR for decades and nothing has come of it since HSR speeds have ostensibly been too expensive and ambitious for any government to tackle. The HFR proposal was meant to move beyond that impasse by making meaningful improvements that are actually pragmatic enough to get done. This sounds like yet more scope creep that will inevitably lead to more bickering, indecision, and a project too daunting for timid governments to take on.

I hope I'm wrong, but we've been down this road many times before. The whole thing is so ridiculous that it was ripe for satire over a decade ago. Yet somehow we're to believe that this time Wylie Coyote's new plan for HSR speeds will actually succeed. Whoot.

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  #66  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Ugh... This does not sound good to me. We've been bickering about HSR for decades and nothing has come of it since HSR speeds have ostensibly been too expensive and ambitious for any government to tackle. The HFR proposal was meant to move beyond that impasse by making meaningful improvements that are actually pragmatic enough to get done.
But it's not like HFR has much traction, either. I mean, it's been an idea for over a decade, and money to study it has been available for 3 years and the furthest they've come is to open up an RFQ. The public still doesn't have any knowledge of any of the technical details of this plan.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 7:56 PM
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I mean Alstom is likely the largest, most qualified bidder here and if they are pushing for HSR, they may have a point.

The HFR project has scoped up a lot from the initial idea years ago out of necessity, it's simply become more expensive as the government has realized what is actually required to implement it, to the point where the marginal additional amount for 300km/h operations may not actually be all that much.

The Liberals also seem to be infighting within about the right approach - HSR would be a popular project with I think most Canadians agreeing it would be useful, at least until they get an actual price tag for the thing.

If there has ever been a time when the Federal Government would actually be willing to spend the cash for it though, now is the time.

We'll have to see. I suspect we'll end up with a HSR line driven by a private contractor a la CDPQ in Montreal with the government financially backstopping it, and perhaps a downgraded part for Quebec - Montreal which is more politically driven and where there isn't money to be made.

Basically I expect it'll end up being a government-backed Brightline West, not a CAHSR. Rural 300km/h operations but using existing low speed lines to access the cities as that is where there is the greatest cost.
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  #68  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
I mean Alstom is likely the largest, most qualified bidder here and if they are pushing for HSR, they may have a point.

The HFR project has scoped up a lot from the initial idea years ago out of necessity, it's simply become more expensive as the government has realized what is actually required to implement it, to the point where the marginal additional amount for 300km/h operations may not actually be all that much.

The Liberals also seem to be infighting within about the right approach - HSR would be a popular project with I think most Canadians agreeing it would be useful, at least until they get an actual price tag for the thing.

If there has ever been a time when the Federal Government would actually be willing to spend the cash for it though, now is the time.

We'll have to see. I suspect we'll end up with a HSR line driven by a private contractor a la CDPQ in Montreal with the government financially backstopping it, and perhaps a downgraded part for Quebec - Montreal which is more politically driven and where there isn't money to be made.

Basically I expect it'll end up being a government-backed Brightline West, not a CAHSR. Rural 300km/h operations but using existing low speed lines to access the cities as that is where there is the greatest cost.
Until we elect a Conservative government. We all know how westerners particularly from Alberta like to kill ideas that will benefit particularly Ontario.
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  #69  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2023, 4:04 PM
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https://www.railfans.ca/news/ministe...y-rail-project

Minister of Transport announces the launch of the Request for Proposals for the High Frequency Rail project

Quote:
The High Frequency Rail project will be the largest Canadian infrastructure project in generations. Once operational, the rail line will span the Québec City to Toronto corridor with dedicated passenger tracks. This transformational project will provide clean, safe, and efficient travel, drive our economy, and strengthen our partnerships with Indigenous communities.

Today, the Minister of Transport and Quebec Lieutenant, Pablo Rodriguez, announced the launch of the Request for Proposals (RFP). The RFP process will be ongoing until summer 2024. Following the evaluation period, the Government of Canada will select the group who will become the private developer partner to work collaboratively with VIA HFR to design and develop the High Frequency Rail project.

To maximize public benefits and innovation, RFP bidders will have to develop two solutions with respect to speed. One solution must include trains that can reach a maximum speed of 200 kilometres per hour, which is faster than the service offered today. The second solution must include high speed segments for faster travel. This will allow for a rigorous assessment of the costs and benefits of incorporating high speed rail on each segment of the Corridor.

Advancing Reconciliation with Indigenous Peoples is a priority for the Government of Canada, and early engagement with Indigenous communities is already underway. Indigenous engagement is critical to the success of the project. As part of the RFP process, bidders will be required to detail their plans for Indigenous participation in the High Frequency Rail project and how they would facilitate opportunities for sharing the socio-economic benefits with Indigenous Peoples.

The High Frequency Rail project's competitive procurement process follows the highest standards of fairness and transparency. It is overseen by an independent Fairness Monitor, who acts as an objective, third-party observer to safeguard the integrity of the procurement process. National security and related risks will also be assessed, along with measures to address such risks.

High Frequency Rail is a transformational project that will fundamentally change the way Canadians travel in southern Québec and Ontario, notably for communities who will be newly served by passenger rail service such as Trois-Rivières and Peterborough.
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  #70  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2023, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Until we elect a Conservative government. We all know how westerners particularly from Alberta like to kill ideas that will benefit particularly Ontario.
That would probably be true but not if Ottawa also put down some hardcore money for the Calgary-Edmonton HSR line which is the only other place in the country where HSR could be justified. These are the two fastest growing cities in the country and if their current dizzying level of population growth continues, by 2040 Edmonton will be over 2.5 million and Calgary over 3. Central Alberta/Red Deer will also be home to 300,000. Calgary to Edmonton is 300km and that is truly the "Goldie Locks" distance for HSR.
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