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  #3921  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2022, 10:16 PM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are kind of the same thing, actually.
No, I think there's a big difference between Christianity on the one hand, and Judaism/Islam on the other hand. Christianity teaches brotherly love, and the belief in a kind, benevolent God who forgives our sins. Judaism/Islam believe in a terrifying, ominous, all powerful and vengeful God that needs to be obeyed and worshiped absolutely in order not to incur His wrath. That's a fundamental difference.

It's not a coincidence if modern science, the modern world, the Industrial Revolution all appeared in the Christian world and not in the Muslim world.
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  #3922  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2022, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Hybrid247 View Post
When I say "better", I mean in terms of actual performance metrics when it comes to racial/cultural marginalization and discrimination in Canada relative to France. It's an objective truth that Canada performs better than France in that aspect.

It's also a well-known and well-documented phenomenon that marginalization of Muslim minorities in France has contributed to the disproportionate amount of terrorist attacks in the country, and it doesn't take a genius to understand why. Socially excluding Muslim minorities and putting up barriers to their social and economic integration pushes them into the arms of the radical where sentiments of contempt for the host state are more easily manipulated.

If we go back for a moment to the France24 video you posted a few pages back, you'll note that a man tells the women behind the hidden camera "you're in the 93 here, not Paris", referring to the infamous Seine-Saint-Denis area where police department 93 is located. This in itself should speak volumes to just how racially segregated and unintegrated many minorities of France are. That, of course, is by design and further exacerbated by policies which aim to exclude minorities from society.

This phenomenon is much less prevalent in Canada precisely because we don't have policies that intentionally marginalize religious minorities. So, I really don't see why Quebec would want to follow in France's footsteps instead of maintaining the status quo, as it will only make things worse.
Is this Fox News or Skyscraperpage? I have some doubts now...

I hadn't read such a ridiculous and cliché comment about France in a long, long time.
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  #3923  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2022, 10:26 PM
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The Protestant Christian God can be a pretty nasty unforgiving dude as well.
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  #3924  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2022, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
No, I think there's a big difference between Christianity on the one hand, and Judaism/Islam on the other hand. Christianity teaches brotherly love, and the belief in a kind, benevolent God who forgives our sins. Judaism/Islam believe in a terrifying, ominous, all powerful and vengeful God that needs to be obeyed and worshiped absolutely in order not to incur His wrath. That's a fundamental difference.

It's not a coincidence if modern science, the modern world, the Industrial Revolution all appeared in the Christian world and not in the Muslim world.
I don't think anything you've said here is true or stands up to scrutiny.
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  #3925  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2022, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
No, I think there's a big difference between Christianity on the one hand, and Judaism/Islam on the other hand. Christianity teaches brotherly love, and the belief in a kind, benevolent God who forgives our sins. Judaism/Islam believe in a terrifying, ominous, all powerful and vengeful God that needs to be obeyed and worshiped absolutely in order not to incur His wrath. That's a fundamental difference.

It's not a coincidence if modern science, the modern world, the Industrial Revolution all appeared in the Christian world and not in the Muslim world.
This is all pretty much bullshit and is almost not worth responding to.

This thread is not about religion, so if it can be returned yet again to Quebec that would be ideal. Otherwise
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  #3926  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2022, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
No, I think there's a big difference between Christianity on the one hand, and Judaism/Islam on the other hand. Christianity teaches brotherly love, and the belief in a kind, benevolent God who forgives our sins. Judaism/Islam believe in a terrifying, ominous, all powerful and vengeful God that needs to be obeyed and worshiped absolutely in order not to incur His wrath. That's a fundamental difference.

It's not a coincidence if modern science, the modern world, the Industrial Revolution all appeared in the Christian world and not in the Muslim world.
I don’t fully agree with your last paragraph (and it’s not because I’m a woke self-hating Westerner )

Didn’t think there would be a Wikipedia page on exactly that topic, but lo and behold, there was:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scie..._Islamic_world
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  #3927  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2022, 10:51 PM
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  #3928  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2022, 10:53 PM
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In ten minutes we’ll enter a rare window in which we’ll be talking to New Brisavoine from different years (it’ll last a few hours)
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  #3929  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2023, 1:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I often say that Anglo-Canada is the most successful diverse society in the world. I still think that, but that doesn't mean that its approach can apply anywhere in the world. It all depends on what your situation and goals are.

This is especially true of Quebec, and one of Canada's major failings has been not being able to make "multicultural Canada" work for Quebec and the country's francophone population.
The suggestion is not that Quebec adopt the same approach as Canada, but rather that it avoid repeating the same mistakes as France. I think it is well understood there is no one size fits all approach to most things, but there are certainly lessons to take away - and that also extends to the ROC.

In fact, as I hinted at earlier, there are lessons which other provinves can and should be taking from Quebec in what it has done objectively well with, like banning religious school boards, which I can't believe is still a thing in Ontario.
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  #3930  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2023, 2:20 AM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Is this Fox News or Skyscraperpage? I have some doubts now...

I hadn't read such a ridiculous and cliché comment about France in a long, long time.
Well, there's no word limit on posts here, so.. you know.. you can actually substantiate your claims after making them.
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  #3931  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2023, 2:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Hybrid247 View Post
The suggestion is not that Quebec adopt the same approach as Canada, but rather that it avoid repeating the same mistakes as France. I think it is well understood there is no one size fits all approach to most things, but there are certainly lessons to take away - and that also extends to the ROC.

In fact, as I hinted at earlier, there are lessons which other provinves can and should be taking from Quebec in what it has done objectively well with, like banning religious school boards, which I can't believe is still a thing in Ontario.
You can't believe that Ontario's Roman Catholics continue to insist on their constitutional rights? I don't find it surprising at all.
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  #3932  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2023, 2:56 PM
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You can't believe that Ontario's Roman Catholics continue to insist on their constitutional rights? I don't find it surprising at all.
I think what he can't believe is that the Ontario government has not yet done what Quebec and Newfoundland have already done, which the Constitution also allows.
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  #3933  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2023, 6:48 PM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
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Originally Posted by Hybrid247 View Post
Well, there's no word limit on posts here, so.. you know.. you can actually substantiate your claims after making them.
Frankly, I can't be arsed (on this particular topic). It's as if you asked an American to respond to some crazy anti-US clichés from Russian forumers.
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  #3934  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2023, 9:53 PM
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  #3935  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2023, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I think what he can't believe is that the Ontario government has not yet done what Quebec and Newfoundland have already done, which the Constitution also allows.
It seems a bit strange for Ontario, Google says that about 30% of schools there are RC, although Alberta & Saskatchewan may have some too. Newfoundland did the transition about 23 years ago, but still has two private RC schools. The origins are completely understandable, because historically, the task of education was more of a church instituted thing than that of government.

edit: Sorry JHikka, no more posts on that.
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  #3936  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2023, 11:11 PM
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If one of the main topics of this thread is Quebec's approach to secularism, it seems a bit unfair to say that religion is completely off-topic.
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  #3937  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2023, 11:14 PM
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If one of the main topics of this thread is Quebec's approach to secularism, it seems a bit unfair to say that religion is completely off-topic.
Religion as it relates to the Canadian experience is fine - religions as punching bags, whether well-informed or otherwise, is not. That rhetoric can go on the Current Events board if people so please. I think we can spare this forum the navel-gazing of the original intentions of scripture and prophets.
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  #3938  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2023, 1:06 AM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
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Some interesting stat that I found today. The English authorities have released the results of the 2021 England and Wales census by country of birth. I was looking at the number of French people living in London, and then I had the curiosity to look at figures for Montréal (2021 census by country of birth, also now released). I also looked at Belgian figures for Brussels (these ones are based on population registers, i.e. administrative registration, as censuses do not exist in Belgium anymore).

Well the striking finding is... there are now more French people living in Montréal than in either London or Brussels! This despite the fact Montréal is considerably more distant from France than London and Brussels.

The 2021 England and Wales census found 90,780 natives of France living in the London LUZ (Greater London + 44 districts around it). As for Brussels, in 2021 there were 94,570 people with French citizenship at birth who were registered in the population registers of Brussels-Capital + Flemish Brabant + Walloon Brabant (which corresponds to the metro area of Brussels).

In the census metropolitan area of Montréal, the 2021 census found... 96,655 natives of France living there! Their numbers went from 59,250 at the 2011 census to 96,655 at the 2021 census. In comparison, the number of natives of France living in the London LUZ went from 77,940 at the 2011 census to 90,780 at the 2021 census.

The natives of France went from being the 2nd largest foreign-born group in the Montréal census metro area in 2011 (behind the natives of Haiti) to being the largest foreign-born group in 2021.

The largest foreign-born groups in the Montréal census metro area in 2021 were the following:
1- France: 96,655
2- Haiti: 90,025
3- Algeria: 73,475
4- China (HK & Macao included): 67,330
5- Morocco: 65,590
6- India: 46,250
7- Italy: 43,435
8- Lebanon: 41,800
9- Philippines: 30,540
10- Vietnam: 25,775

It's some pretty stunning data I find, considering how Québec is located quite far from France, and the prevalent urban myth in France is that London is the largest French city abroad, which was already wrong before (Brussels had more French people), but now even Montréal has more French people than London.

In the Québec City census metro area the largest foreign-born groups in 2021 were the following:
1- France: 16,360
2- Colombia: 4,045
3- Morocco: 3,775
4- Tunisia: 3,660
5- Côte d'ivoire: 3,340
6- Cameroon: 3,170
7- Algeria: 2,575
8- Brazil: 2,370
9- China (HK & Macao included): 2,320
10- USA: 1,995

In the Québec part of the Ottawa-Gatineau census metro area:
1- France: 2,885
2- Haiti: 2,820
3- Lebanon: 2,695
4- Congo-Kinshasa: 2,580
5- Morocco: 2,285
6- China (HK & Macao included): 2,210
7- Cameroon: 1,980
8- Colombia: 1,975
9- Côte d'Ivoire: 1,770
10- Burundi: 1,760

Gatineau has an odd Belgian air with its numerous Congolese, Burundian, and also Rwandan immigrants. I wonder why.

The Ontario part of the Ottawa-Gatineau census metro area couldn't be any more different: over there the natives of China, India, the UK, and the US dominate.
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  #3939  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2023, 1:17 AM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
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In the combined census metro areas of Toronto and Oshawa, the natives of France are only the... 47th largest foreign-born group, with less people than the natives of Croatia or Hungary.

In total only 10,750 natives of France lived in the combined census metro areas of Toronto and Oshawa at the 2021 census, i.e. less than those who lived in the Québec City metro area.
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  #3940  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2023, 4:28 PM
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Was Hazel McCallion French Canadian? It says she was Anglican in the CBC article re: her death this morning at 101.
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