The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I mean Tesla jacked MSRPs far faster than any other automaker over the last years. Other manufacturers were letting dealers respond to market conditions by putting markups over the MSRP - Tesla just jacked the MSRP.

Now that those crazy price days are gone, I don't think anyone should be surprised that Tesla is dropping their prices back down to ground too. They were printing money at their old pricing structure as people would still buy them even at the inflated price. It's less some desperate ploy to prop up sales and more an acknowledgement that the unlimited demand days of 2021 are gone now as interest rate hikes cut demand and other automakers finally start managing to ramp production again.

I think I'm more curious to see if other manufacturers will start lowering their prices on their EVs as well.

[homebucket]

Ah, speak of the devil.

Tesla just started an EV price war that it will likely win
Fred Lambert | Jan 20 2023 - 8:53 am PT

Tesla has just started what could become a major EV price war, and it could change the landscape as the automaker is in a great position to win that war.

...

Tesla has implemented some significant price cuts across its entire lineup and in all markets. It almost reversed the price increases over the last few years entirely.

As we recently reported, the price drop has been working in the US where it also arrives at the same time as the new $7,500 tax credit for electric vehicles.

Tesla’s sales are surging following the price drop and now we are seeing other automakers following in the price drop. For example, Xpeng saw its sales drop during the week following Tesla’s price drop, and the company has now implemented important price drops, too.

Many experts are seeing this as the first few steps into the first ever EV price war.

Tesla is in a perfect position to win the EV price war
In a price war, it’s all about your ability to absorb price reductions and on that front, you can’t deny Tesla’s lead.

For years now, the automaker has been enjoying industry-leading gross margins and net profits.

Here, Reuters put a chart together showing how Tesla’s gross margin and net profit compare to rivals in the auto industry:



That chart is impressive, but it doesn’t even tell the whole story.

Aside from companies like Nio and Xpeng, all the gross margins and net profits from the other companies also come from non-all-electric vehicles – meaning hybrids, PHEVs and gas-powered cars.

For companies like GM, which comes in second to Tesla in net profits, it is believed that its gasoline-powered vehicles have much higher margins than its electric vehicles.

Electrek’s Take
I’ve always said that I believe some big companies will fall during the electric revolution. I’m not saying that’s happening now, but if an EV price war heats up, I think we could see it happen.

I think Tesla still has a few wild cards that are questionable – Elon Musk is at the top of that list – but it is definitely Tesla’s war to lose.

https://electrek.co/2023/01/20/tesla...price-war-win/

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Now that those crazy price days are gone, I don't think anyone should be surprised that Tesla is dropping their prices back down to ground too. They were printing money at their old pricing structure as people would still buy them even at the inflated price. It's less some desperate ploy to prop up sales and more an acknowledgement that the unlimited demand days of 2021 are gone now as interest rate hikes cut demand and other automakers finally start managing to ramp production again.

Part of Tesla's growth plan is to continue to increase production YOY. They don't want to stockpile cars so they are pricing to sell what they produce.

Legacy carmakers would layoff staff and cancel shifts to reduce production to closer match demand. Pricing to the dealers wouldn't change IMO. Dealers then drop prices and/or add "market adjustments" in response to local demand.

[whatnext]

Has anybody done a scholarly paper on the psychological aspects of Musk fanboy-dom?

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Part of Tesla's growth plan is to continue to increase production YOY. They don't want to stockpile cars so they are pricing to sell what they produce.

Legacy carmakers would layoff staff and cancel shifts to reduce production to closer match demand. Pricing to the dealers wouldn't change IMO. Dealers then drop prices and/or add "market adjustments" in response to local demand.

Tne one thing that Tesla has done right that I think even the staunchest of Musk haters would have to admit to is rejecting the dealer network. There's no haggling required, getting bent over by ADMs, etc. At least you know what you're paying and what you're getting.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Tne one thing that Tesla has done right that I think even the staunchest of Musk haters would have to admit to is rejecting the dealer network. There's no haggling required, getting bent over by ADMs, etc. At least you know what you're paying and what you're getting.

The service process strangely feels more transparent as well. I've had my vehicle in for a few warranty things and other stuff. The staff isn't trying to upsell or BS me. This could be more of a cultural thing, but it's a far cry from your average legacy dealership experience, nevermind Joe's garage or wherever you might take your vehicle.

They only have a few models so far and know my car inside and out. The car has transmitted god knows how much data back to Tesla on every little thing.

The only criticism is that Service isn't growing fast enough to deal with the number of their cars on the road. I've never had a problem personally, but I've heard it from others.

[logan5]

The Aptera ev sounds almost too good to be true. Using their fuel savings calculator, even in a low sunshine city like Vancouver, it would still get you 38 km's per day purely from its solar panels.

• Video Link

[Nouvellecosse]

^ The best part of that vehicle is the ultra low energy usage due to the low weight and aerodynamics. That allows amazing range which on most other vehicles means a huge battery (and therefore high weight and cost). Without that the solar panels couldn't provide any notable amount of range.

[WarrenC12]

38kms/day on solar is impressive, but you're sacrificing a ton to get that performance.

38kms would take about 6.5kWh in my Model 3, about 75 cents in electricity including taxes.

Great for off the grid type uses.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

38kms/day on solar is impressive, but you're sacrificing a ton to get that performance.

38kms would take about 6.5kWh in my Model 3, about 75 cents in electricity including taxes.

Great for off the grid type uses.

It's looks different, and it's only a 2 seater (which is fine 99.9% of the time). Other than that, what is the major sacrifice here?

[Airboy]

Brother just took delivery of his Audi E-tron on Friday. A lot of money for 375km range. But being in Vancouver I guess that's good. I would need a bit more range. I am looking at a plug in Hybrid a Mazda CX90 or similar.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logan5

It's looks different, and it's only a 2 seater (which is fine 99.9% of the time). Other than that, what is the major sacrifice here?

A 2 seater isn't fine for me that much. Any storage room? Comfort? Crash safety?

Sure as a 2nd commuter vehicle it seems ok, might as well go with an Electra Mechanica Solo though.

My point is just that power is cheap, it's not worth much to get it "for free".

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Airboy

Brother just took delivery of his Audi E-tron on Friday. A lot of money for 375km range. But being in Vancouver I guess that's good. I would need a bit more range. I am looking at a plug in Hybrid a Mazda CX90 or similar.

The E-Tron has a big battery too, just terrible efficiency. I'm sure it's nice inside though.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by logan5

It's looks different, and it's only a 2 seater (which is fine 99.9% of the time). Other than that, what is the major sacrifice here?

I would say crash protection? Not sure where the regulations are now, but 3-wheeled vehicles used to be classified as motorcycles and thus didn't have to adhere to the same crash protection standards as 4-wheeled vehicles. I recall that there was some movement to separate closed-in car-like 3-wheelers from those with a motorcycle configuration (i.e. motorcycle with a side car, etc.), but I'm not sure if it came to fruition. That said, I wouldn't want to be involved in a side crash situation in one of these as it doesn't appear to be protected very well.

Another caveat for me would be snow performance. I can imagine it would be quite a handful in slippery snow, slush, or ice conditions.

Also, I wouldn't want to accidentally hit a curb or large pothole with the flimsy-ish front suspension - maybe it's just how it looks to me, but it appears that it would be easy to bend one of the suspension members and throw its alignment out of whack. Maybe they've taken that into consideration, but it looks more like a California vehicle than a midwest/rustbelt/Canadian market vehicle.

That said, I agree with Nouvellecosse in that it's refreshing to see an EV that has targeted efficiency through light weight and aerodynamics. I'm hoping that future EVs will try to venture in that direction vs just being and EV version of current ICE vehicles (while maintaining safety standards, of course).

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

A 2 seater isn't fine for me that much. Any storage room? Comfort? Crash safety?

Sure as a 2nd commuter vehicle it seems ok, might as well go with an Electra Mechanica Solo though.

My point is just that power is cheap, it's not worth much to get it "for free".

I'd drive either of those cars as a commuter, but not being able to fit golf clubs is a deal breaker.

[Tvisforme]

We're approaching a time when we won't need two regular-size (ie seats 4) vehicles since the kids are going to be out in the next few years. I have to say, these look like really interesting alternatives for a second car. I can't wait to see what develops over the next few years as the industry shifts to new technologies.

[urbandreamer]

I just saw a blown Leaf getting picked up on the side of Hwy 85 in North Waterloo.

The Dutch Lightyear 0 production has been shut down.

The upcoming BYD Seagull looks like a promising affordable EV; however, its range won't get me very far on rural roads across Canada.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

A 2 seater isn't fine for me that much. Any storage room? Comfort? Crash safety?

Sure as a 2nd commuter vehicle it seems ok, might as well go with an Electra Mechanica Solo though.

My point is just that power is cheap, it's not worth much to get it "for free".

Not sure about crash safety but they seem to have a decent amount of room. Not as much as large heavy vehicle of course but not that different from some small production cars like the smart fortwo which seem to have been fairly successful.

• Video Link

[homebucket]

Heh. Saw this coming a mile away.

Ford cuts prices on electric Mustang Mach-E, following Tesla’s lead
PUBLISHED MON, JAN 30 2023 8:30 AM EST

DETROIT — Ford Motor is increasing production and cutting prices of its electric Mustang Mach-E crossover, weeks after industry leader Tesla announced similar plans for its EVs.

The Detroit automaker said Monday it will lower pricing of the Mach-E, which is comparable to Tesla’s Model Y, by an average of about $4,500, depending on the model. The reductions range from $600 to $5,900, compared with Tesla’s price cuts of up to $13,000 on its Model Y earlier in January.

Wall Street analysts and investors largely applauded Tesla’s price reductions as a way to drum up demand and increase sales, despite concerns the move would erode some profits. Analysts expected Tesla’s cuts to put pressure on other automakers to cut their own prices.

In Ford’s case, the price cuts will mean not all Mach-E models, based on the trim, will be profitable on a per-unit basis, according to Marin Gjaja, chief customer officer of Ford’s electric vehicle business. He said Mach-E production is expected to increase from 78,000 vehicles to 130,000 units annually.

“We are responding to changes in the marketplace,” Gjaja said during a media briefing, referencing new federal EV incentives and Tesla’s price cuts. “As we look and want to stay competitive in the marketplace, we’re having to respond.”

Ford expects to offset some of the profit shrink with cost improvements thanks to the additional production as well as a reduction in some commodity costs, according to Gjaja. The Mach-E’s starting price will now range from about $46,000 to $64,000. Tesla’s Model Y starts at about $53,500 to $57,000, without any options.

The Mach-E led Ford to become the second-bestselling automaker of EVs last year in the U.S., albeit trailing Tesla by a wide margin. Ford sold more than 65,000 EVs in the U.S. last year. Motor Intelligence estimates Tesla, which does not report sales by region, sold more than 522,000 EVs in the U.S. in 2022.

Ford said existing Mustang Mach-E customers awaiting delivery of their vehicle will automatically receive the adjusted price. For customers who bought one of the vehicles after Jan. 1, and who have already received their Mustang Mach-E, Ford will reach out with a “private offer,” the company said.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/30/ford...price-cut.html

[WarrenC12]

Didn't Ford already say they were losing money on every EV? I hope they will get a little more efficient with production.