PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

NJ has a tax problem. For me personally it came down to property taxes, why pay $4k extra/yr for a the same sized house/lot in a similar school district? I'm about 5 miles from the NJ border and 45 minutes from where I grew up, so I'm not missing out on anything. NJ has also increased personal income tax across the board, so everybody from the rich to the poor are paying more. Unfortunately NJ has gotten a bad reputation from all of this, so when somebody looks at the non-discernible difference in things like commute times into Philly, west of the Delaware is more appealing.

It's also geographic. Getting into the city from Jersey is a pain in the ass. The city is what drives regional growth, what attracts young people to the area. So young people move to the city, and when they look to move out they often want to have continued easy access to the city. SEPTA has excellent regional coverage, and PATCO/NJ Transit does not. Throw in the tax issue and it's easy for somebody to ask "why would I even consider NJ?" I certainly wouldn't. It only makes sense if you work there. Unfortunately I just don't think SJ is situated for substantial population growth any time soon.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

It's also geographic. Getting into the city from Jersey is a pain in the ass. The city is what drives regional growth, what attracts young people to the area. So young people move to the city, and when they look to move out they often want to have continued easy access to the city. SEPTA has excellent regional coverage, and PATCO/NJ Transit does not. Throw in the tax issue and it's easy for somebody to ask "why would I even consider NJ?" I certainly wouldn't. Unfortunately I just don't think SJ is situated for substantial population growth any time soon.

@milksteak and Urban

https://www.unitedvanlines.com/conta...ers-study-2018

Drop down the menu to NJ to see the reasons for NJ loss of population. Not just taxes as the common default reason.

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

It's also geographic. Getting into the city from Jersey is a pain in the ass. The city is what drives regional growth, what attracts young people to the area. So young people move to the city, and when they look to move out they often want to have continued easy access to the city. SEPTA has excellent regional coverage, and PATCO/NJ Transit does not. Throw in the tax issue and it's easy for somebody to ask "why would I even consider NJ?" I certainly wouldn't. It only makes sense if you work there. Unfortunately I just don't think SJ is situated for substantial population growth any time soon.

I actually deleted some of what I said in my earlier comment, but yeah....I wanted easy proximity to Philly, so I moved into the burbs a mile away from the train station.

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

@milksteak and Urban

https://www.unitedvanlines.com/conta...ers-study-2018

Drop down the menu to NJ to see the reasons for NJ loss of population. Not just taxes as the common default reason.

I'm not disputing why people would decide to leave NJ overall, I was speaking from personal experience of why somebody would choose PA over NJ, and taxes were really the only reason in my case. When I bought my house in PA I was working in NJ, so packing up and heading elsewhere in the US wasn't an option unless I wanted to switch jobs. Retirement is huge, but those people are heading south, lifestyle is negligible between eastern PA and NJ, and family is out of a state's control.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Nomad9

What’s driving the exodus?

Originally Posted by Milksteak

NJ has a tax problem. For me personally it came down to property taxes, why pay $4k extra/yr for a the same sized house/lot in a similar school district? I'm about 5 miles from the NJ border and 45 minutes from where I grew up, so I'm not missing out on anything. NJ has also increased personal income tax across the board, so everybody from the rich to the poor are paying more. Unfortunately NJ has gotten a bad reputation from all of this, so when somebody looks at the non-discernible difference in things like commute times into Philly, west of the Delaware is more appealing.

I can second all of this, know many people who want out ASAP due to the tax situation and these are people who have been there for decades. I view it as really unfortunate, as I think that NJ is kind of a neat place.

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

I can second all of this, know many people who want out ASAP due to the tax situation and these are people who have been there for decades. I view it as really unfortunate, as I think that NJ is kind of a neat place.

As do I, I take no joy in any of this. I spent my formative years there....between the history, the shore, the diverse and eclectic population, and the unparalleled music scene, it's a shame to see things take a downturn. All hope is not lost though and I'm pulling for them to turn things around.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

It's also geographic. Getting into the city from Jersey is a pain in the ass. The city is what drives regional growth, what attracts young people to the area. So young people move to the city, and when they look to move out they often want to have continued easy access to the city. SEPTA has excellent regional coverage, and PATCO/NJ Transit does not. Throw in the tax issue and it's easy for somebody to ask "why would I even consider NJ?" I certainly wouldn't. It only makes sense if you work there. Unfortunately I just don't think SJ is situated for substantial population growth any time soon.

Personally, I think the topography (outside of the shore area) is far nicer in PA as well. Some probably don't notice it, but I do and small things like that add up for me.

Of course, that's not the case up in Hunterdon County, etc, but south of 195 unless you're right on the water, Jersey is basically flat and piney. PA has rolling hills and really good tree cover in most burbs, especially the more established ones. It just makes it feel more established overall, which I like.

I grew up in the PA burbs, so I'm partial. Most of the folks who I grew up with who didn't leave the area remain in PA or DE, but there were a handful that bought in the Mullica Hill area as I suppose it's the last close in area where up until recently you could get a really big newer construction house for not that much money (say, sub $400K). I think those days are gone, even for Gloucester County, but nonetheless, I thought they were crazy.

I'd rather live in a slightly smaller, slightly more expensive home in the Chadds Ford or West Chester or Phoenixville areas if exurban was what I was interested in (which I'm not).

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

As do I, I take no joy in any of this. I spent my formative years there....between the history, the shore, the diverse and eclectic population, and the unparalleled music scene, it's a shame to see things take a downturn. All hope is not lost though and I'm pulling for them to turn things around.

It will take a complete overhaul of the government and I wonder if the younger generation will find that to be worth it or will it just be simpler to move elsewhere?

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Personally, I think the topography (outside of the shore area) is far nicer in PA as well. Some probably don't notice it, but I do and small things like that add up for me.

Of course, that's not the case up in Hunterdon County, etc, but south of 195 unless you're right on the water, Jersey is basically flat and piney. PA has rolling hills and really good tree cover in most burbs, especially the more established ones. It just makes it feel more established overall, which I like.

I agree with this but that is also what I like about south NJ, as it is so different than PA and I have been in some neighborhoods in south NJ where it felt like you could have been in a part of the southern US, it was pretty cool.

[summersm343]

With opening of luxe apartments, developers hope to turn Bala Cynwyd into trendy ‘NoBA.’ Can City Avenue follow?

When the first few residents moved into a luxurious Bala Cynwyd apartment complex last month, Kevin Michals said he saw signs of such growth. To him and his colleagues at Cross Properties, the opening of the Kelly apartments marked the first wave of revitalization for a sleepy area off City Avenue that he and his fellow developers have coined “NoBA,” short for North Bala.

“NoBA was just a way for us to signal there’s a new sheriff in town, new money coming into town," said Michals, the manager partner for Cross.

He hopes others will follow their lead, he said, and invest in the small community on the edge of Lower Merion Township, which has a median household income of more than $125,000. He wants to transform the main drag on Bala Avenue from its current, ghost-town-esque state, he said, to a happening suburb similar to Phoenixville or Media.

With its rooftop dog park and sundeck, clubhouse and private conference rooms, and 24-hour front-desk concierge, the Kelly certainly looks and feels as if it belongs in a trendy town.

The $50 million, 109-unit building (16 of which were occupied or pre-leased as of last week) is the first of three complexes Cross plans to open in coming years. In all, they say, they’ve invested $110 million, bought 20 properties, and made plans to incorporate an upscale food court and community gathering and co-working space alongside the 258 new apartments.

In the works for several years, these efforts play into larger goals of the City Avenue Special Services District. Officials with the district have been working to reinvigorate the congested, three-mile stretch that straddles Philadelphia and Lower Merion, a strip that often goes by the misnomer “City Line," especially in Delaware County, said Terrence Foley, the district’s president and CEO.

McKeon said he expects improvements along City Avenue to take more time.

Foley said he has seen positive signs, however. The corridor has gotten younger in recent years, he said, with more millennials moving into apartment buildings such as the revamped Presidential City and the Mansion at Bala.

Read more here:
https://www.inquirer.com/news/pennsy...-20190603.html

[mcgrath618]

Now if they could just get weekend service on the Cynwyd line...

[summersm343]

CA Senior Living begins construction on 192-unit Anthology of King of Prussia

CA Senior Living LLC, the senior housing investment and development division of Chicago-based CA Ventures, today announced construction is underway on Anthology of King of Prussia, a 192-unit senior living community in Wayne, Pa., approximately 17 miles northwest of Philadelphia. Located at 350 Guthrie Road, the 11-story building is scheduled to deliver in late 2020, marking the first senior living community in The Village at Valley Forge, a 122-acre mixed-use lifestyle village.

Read more here:
https://montco.today/2019/05/ca-seni...ng-of-prussia/

[Urbanthusiat]

$500M project planned for former Upper Merion GSK campus

A year after buying a GlaxoSmithKline research facility in Upper Merion, MLP Ventures Group will seek to reposition that space as well as a neighboring office park into a $500 million, 1.6-million-square-foot coworking campus called the Discovery Labs that will cater to health care, life science and pharmaceutical companies.

The former GSK property off Swedeland Road will be the first of what is expected to be a series of other similar coworking projects. MLP Ventures plans to buy other unwanted lab and research facilities pharmaceutical companies are jettisoning and brand them as Discovery Labs. The company has six other facilities either under agreement or in negotiations. They are located in New York, Boston, San Francisco, Dublin and London.

...

To that end, MLP Ventures has partnered with Pennsylvania Biotechnology Center of Bucks County. The organization will occupy 100,000 square feet of the Discovery Labs and the space will be called IQ Connect. It will be a business incubator that will bring together researchers, entrepreneurs and startups with other resources such as venture capital, investment banking and other help with the goal of getting companies and products launched.

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel..._news_headline



"New York, Boston, San Francisco, Dublin and London" Good list of cities to be mentioned with!

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

It's also geographic. Getting into the city from Jersey is a pain in the ass. The city is what drives regional growth, what attracts young people to the area. So young people move to the city, and when they look to move out they often want to have continued easy access to the city. SEPTA has excellent regional coverage, and PATCO/NJ Transit does not. Throw in the tax issue and it's easy for somebody to ask "why would I even consider NJ?" I certainly wouldn't. It only makes sense if you work there. Unfortunately I just don't think SJ is situated for substantial population growth any time soon.

Absolutely. I'm 23, live car-free, and enjoy walkable communities. Though I will never live in the suburbs (even with kids. I grew up in the city and suburbs, and I don't want my future kids growing up in suburban hell), I wouldn't consider living in South Jersey for a second. NJ Transit and the DRPA really messed up when it came to opportunities to expand rail transit in South Jersey. When PATCO was first conceived, the state should have really pushed for additional lines to Mt. Holly and Glassboro (with the possibility of going as far south as Millville).

If only the Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR) had completed its intended South Jersey tunnel from Suburban Station. Imagine how much different SJ would be with a huge commuter station in Camden (with connections to the River Line and PATCO), transfer stations at Ferry Avenue and Woodbury Junction, and lines going to Mt. Holly, Bridgeton, Salem, Millville, and Ocean City/Cape May.

Transit--specifically NJ Transit--is also a huge problem in North Jersey. Before he moved, I had a friend who lived in Essex County. The Montclair-Boonton Line runs on two hour headways on weekends, along with not going past Bay Street in Montclair. Two hour headways and reduced service levels in the largest metro area in the US? Absolutely crazy! Even SEPTA has better headways than NJ Transit on the weekends! PATH can also be a nightmare at times. When considering locations outside of NYC, North Jersey is clearly superior to LI and the Hudson Valley; however, its major disadvantage is the lack of 24/7 service similar to that of the LIRR and Metro-North.

[Nomad9]

Just when it seems like Wilmington is turning a corner, it loses 500 jobs.

https://www.delawareonline.com/get-a...F1351334001%2F

[Urbanthusiat]

New Construction out in Kennett Square.

The Flats at Kennett Breaks Ground, Signals New Luxury Apartments for Kennett Square

Kennett Square, Pa., May 29, 2019 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- High Real Estate Group LLC held a groundbreaking for The Flats at Kennett, a four-story, 175-unit apartment complex that will bring luxury apartment living to Chester County. Located on a 14.4-acre tract at 603 Millers Hill Road, The Flats at Kennett will be Kennett Square’s newest apartment community and will open in 2020.

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-r...tt-Square.html

[Urbanthusiat]

New housing, office development planned for Great Valley

DP Partners Group is proposing to develop the former Knickerbocker Quarry in East Whiteland into a residential development that would preserve half of its 172 acres as open space.

...

Vanguard, which has 11,500 employees working in Great Valley, is starting exploratory discussions on another new building that could be as big as 194,000 square feet and is undertaking site master planning to look at its real estate needs for the next five, 10 years and beyond;

...

Trammell Crow, as master developer of Atwater, has an office tenant for a new 35,000-square-foot build-to-suit that will break ground later this year, Goggins said. While he declined to disclose the name of the company, sources say it is Cenero, an audiovisual business based on Yellow Springs Road across from Atwater.

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel..._news_headline

[jonesrmj]

Here is an update on the Riverfront Hotels in Wilmington, DE!

Hyatt:
[IMG]Hyatt Wilmington Riverfront (June 12, 2019) by jonesrmj, on Flickr[/IMG]

Both hotels viewed from more north on the Riverwalk:
[IMG]Hyatt and Homewood Suites by Hilton Wilmington Riverfront (June 12, 2019) by jonesrmj, on Flickr[/IMG]

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

I can second all of this, know many people who want out ASAP due to the tax situation and these are people who have been there for decades. I view it as really unfortunate, as I think that NJ is kind of a neat place.

I grew up in South Jersey and amongst the people I know most people that came back to the area after college moved into the city when they came back. I am 31 btw to give an age group.

Amongst my parents age group, early 60s, most seem to be looking to move because of cost of living reasons.

Until the way federal money is distributed gets changed NJ is screwed. The state residents only get about 70 cents back for every dollar they pay to the feds. Its been that way for probably 50+ years.

[RowanGrad]

Originally Posted by Jelly Roll

Until the way federal money is distributed gets changed NJ is screwed. The state residents only get about 70 cents back for every dollar they pay to the feds. Its been that way for probably 50+ years.

How is federal money distributed among states?

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by RowanGrad

How is federal money distributed among states?

I don't really want to get into a political debate or anything, but I believe he is referring to the fact that New Jersey only gets back $0.82 from the federal government for each dollar it pays in taxes (49th out of 50 states), which resulted in a $21B outflow from NJ in FY 2017. I struggle with this argument because people who would identify as "liberal" who complain about this discrepancy are sort of arguing against the progressive taxation that they would claim to support. If New Jersey residents are wealthier on average (which they are), then they should expect exactly this result.

Source: https://rockinst.org/wp-content/uplo...f-Payments.pdf