Salt Lake International Airport Development Thread

[airhero]

Originally Posted by smartdev

There used to be a park and wait lot with large electronic signs informing you on what flights were arriving. Did they get rid of that lot or move it somewhere else? The airport website seems to indicate there is one located southeast of the terminal. I was waiting to pick someone up yesterday and had to circle the terminal about 6 times and never found the lot. People were trying to park on the right side of street but security would make them move.

There is a park and wait. It is on the left as you approach the airport. It’s bigger than the old one. There is a gas station, convenience store, a few restaurants there as well. It takes a lot longer to get out of it though. You have to backtrack a bit and make a couple turns to get back on terminal drive.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by airhero

There is a park and wait. It is on the left as you approach the airport. It’s bigger than the old one. There is a gas station, convenience store, a few restaurants there as well. It takes a lot longer to get out of it though. You have to backtrack a bit and make a couple turns to get back on terminal drive.

The new park and wait is poorly designed compared to the old one. It’s not super obvious and is kind of confusing to get in… and especially out of. I always see people having a hard time getting out of there and ending up in the wrong place. It should also be bigger.

It really should be relocated to the opposite side of the road where it’s easier and quicker to get in & out and there is much more space. The gas station should be moved over there as well. The old park and wait was located on that side of the road and it was much more convenient to pull in and out quickly. They should make it as convenient as possible and then start ticketing people who park on the side of the road because they shouldn’t be there.

[i-215]

Entering the Park and Wait area wasn't too bad for me.

Exiting? That was an entirely different matter.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Autonomous technology - overyped and oversold.

Isaac Asimov ... was a weirdo.

But among the sensible stuff I have read, he compared robotics to the wheel. If transportation tried to imitate ("robot-ize") humans, we'd build these complicated gigantic two legged vehicles (AT-ST Walkers in Star Wars) which would use complicated balancing systems. Take the chicken walker for a nice (literal) run across the country for our summer road trip.

But we don't do that. We use wheels. Because we worked from the need forward to a solution, rather than a solution (human legs) backward to fit the need.

Silly airport food robots fit the second description. And that's why they are pointless. Automation/robotics which will actually be effective for human use will work from the problem forward (e.g., in-wall "smart" food conveyor belt systems). The technology probably won't resemble humans at all.

[ucsbgaucho]

Originally Posted by i-215

Isaac Asimov ... was a weirdo.

But among the sensible stuff I have read, he compared robotics to the wheel. If transportation tried to imitate ("robot-ize") humans, we'd build these complicated gigantic two legged vehicles (AT-ST Walkers in Star Wars) which would use complicated balancing systems. Take the chicken walker for a nice (literal) run across the country for our summer road trip.

But we don't do that. We use wheels. Because we worked from the need forward to a solution, rather than a solution (human legs) backward to fit the need.

Silly airport food robots fit the second description. And that's why they are pointless. Automation/robotics which will actually be effective for human use will work from the problem forward (e.g., in-wall "smart" food conveyor belt systems). The technology probably won't resemble humans at all.

Problem: People find a seat at their gate, get hungry, but don't want to get up to go get food as they'll lose their precious seat, and they can't leave their bags on the seat as they'll get stolen or someone will think there's a bomb.

Current solution: Design a small, hard-to-see-in-a-crowded-space robot cart ala the NASA food cart at the beginning of Flight of the Navigator, that can probably only hold food/drink for one person, which has to be loaded by hand and then escorted by a human anyway to it's destination, which is your seat at the gate.

Where does the cart stay when it's not in use? Does it have to go from it's charging station to the food kiosk, get loaded with food and then drive to the person's seat? How does it navigate all of the people walking? What happens when someone trips over it? How long will it take if there are lots of orders?

It's not "going crazy" over a silly robot. It's a foolish idea and a waste of money. That person escorting the robot could push a cart with 4 or 5 orders loaded on, and "make the rounds" in a certain area dropping off multiple orders one after the other, strategically choosing the order of drop-off to minimize travel time and distance.

I know the idea is coming from movie theaters offering food service to your seat from the concession stand, which has been around for 10 years or more at higher-end theaters and a great feature. It's a great idea in theory, as often food kiosks have long lines, which clog up walking areas. But using an automated robot delivery cart doesn't solve the problem. Using automation and AI over a human should 1) reduce costs, 2) increase speed & efficiency, and 3) provide an equally-positive experience. This does none of those, I imagine.

[ucsbgaucho]

deleted

[i-215]

Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho

Using automation and AI over a human should 1) reduce costs, 2) increase speed & efficiency, and 3) provide an equally-positive experience. This does none of those, I imagine.

It's too bad this idea wasn't built into the airport when we designed it. But hindsight is always 2020.

A track on the ceiling which carries food trays to each gate and lowers them onto tables? Still better than the silly robot.

[ucsbgaucho]

Originally Posted by i-215

It's too bad this idea wasn't built into the airport when we designed it. But hindsight is always 2020.

A track on the ceiling which carries food trays to each gate and lowers them onto tables? Still better than the silly robot.

Ehh, I think the whole idea is silly... there's no way to implement an automated food delivery service in an airport, unless it's behind the scenes and to some sort of kiosk near your gate. No way does it make any sense to try and develop something that delivers to exactly where you are at your seat. Sure, there could be automated kiosks where the food can be delivered and you walk over and scan your QR code and the door opens and you take your food, and there's one near each gate, but not a delivery bot to your seat. Too many people, too much movement, and delivery bots roaming the concourses would only make it worse. Just offer delivery options from the restaurants, put a QR code on each seat for location that you scan when you place your order, and a person can run it right over to you much more efficiently than a bot.

[Atlas]

This reminds me of my experience at the Minneapolis airport a few years ago. They have restaurants that front the passenger waiting areas around the gates, and you can order food through an app or kiosk and the servers bring it out to you. The waiting areas were designed with more table seating too. I recall that there was a bar at the restaurant at my gate and I was able to wait for my plane while having a beer.

That always struck me as innovative and I've never seen it anywhere else.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho

Sure, there could be automated kiosks where the food can be delivered and you walk over and scan your QR code and the door opens and you take your food, and there's one near each gate, but not a delivery bot to your seat.

That's more what I had in mind. Get it in the *general area* of your gate (e.g., no farther than the nearest bathroom/drinking fountain).

[Blah_Amazing]

Salt Lake City Int'l Airport among most costly to depart

https://www.fox13now.com/news/salt-l...iest-to-depart

[Reeder113]

Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing

Salt Lake City Int'l Airport among most costly to depart

https://www.fox13now.com/news/salt-l...iest-to-depart

But why?

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by Reeder113

But why?

I don't know why. It is very extremely expensive.

[i-215]

the average airfare for passengers departing the new SLC Airport is $329.56; fourth highest in the country.

Woof! I keep wanting to fly on one of my trips home to Utah, but I guess I'll keep driving (with the 80 mph limit, driving is nearly as convenient).

Normally I'd say, oh, the new airport has higher landing/gate fees which they are passing onto the customer. But the entire idea of the SLC rebuild was how the gate/landing fees would stay rock-bottom low.

Maybe Delta overstepped themselves with upgrades and are trying to unofficially recoup some of their money? And since Delta has such a lock on that airport, if they raise fares, it gives ceiling room for other carriers to do the same?

[ucsbgaucho]

Originally Posted by i-215

Woof! I keep wanting to fly on one of my trips home to Utah, but I guess I'll keep driving (with the 80 mph limit, driving is nearly as convenient).

Normally I'd say, oh, the new airport has higher landing/gate fees which they are passing onto the customer. But the entire idea of the SLC rebuild was how the gate/landing fees would stay rock-bottom low.

Maybe Delta overstepped themselves with upgrades and are trying to unofficially recoup some of their money? And since Delta has such a lock on that airport, if they raise fares, it gives ceiling room for other carriers to do the same?

My question would be what the trend has been over the last 5-10 years... have they always been one of the most expensive, or did it change with the airport construction? A one-time figure doesn't tell you anything unfortunately.

[i-215]

This is the newest chart I can find at the moment. It shows SLC nearly at the bottom ~$4 per emplaned passenger. There was an article in the Tribune a couple of years ago which said that price wasn't going to change much.

So we can't directly blame the new airport. But I wonder if we can indirectly. Delta paid for nearly everything SLC wanted and asked for.

[i-215]

From the Transit News thread:

Originally Posted by Atlas

I've mentioned this before but after flying out of SLC yesterday, I'm back to thinking that the pickup and dropoff zones have been built to be far too short. It was already pretty crowded and chaotic, more so than the old setup.

I love the rest of the airport despite it being unfinished. The loading zones are finished though, and that fact worries me.

I flew in/out of SLC for Father's Day weekend, and I agree with your assessments. The airport is great. It's just jarring to see how busy and looooooooong it is to walk (my gate was A1 -- which is the farthest "A" gate.)

It feels like a mix of other great airports. A layout like Denver. A security like Atlanta (at least it felt like it to me). Glass-walled "no man land" areas between the gate and jetway like Dallas.

But oh my freaking heck -- that pick up area is a circus. People parking on the side of the terminal access road rather than going to the Park and Wait. Cars getting stuck and unable to move because people loiter curbside. It's an absolute disaster.

What really troubles me: If the airport is THIS busy feeling now (especially inside the A-gate corridor), what is it going to be like in 20 years when passenger traffic is 50-100% greater than it is now?

[RockMont]

My question now about this airport, is will they build an adjoining hotel next to it?

[airhero]

Originally Posted by i-215

From the Transit News thread:



I flew in/out of SLC for Father's Day weekend, and I agree with your assessments. The airport is great. It's just jarring to see how busy and looooooooong it is to walk (my gate was A1 -- which is the farthest "A" gate.)

It feels like a mix of other great airports. A layout like Denver. A security like Atlanta (at least it felt like it to me). Glass-walled "no man land" areas between the gate and jetway like Dallas.

But oh my freaking heck -- that pick up area is a circus. People parking on the side of the terminal access road rather than going to the Park and Wait. Cars getting stuck and unable to move because people loiter curbside. It's an absolute disaster.

What really troubles me: If the airport is THIS busy feeling now (especially inside the A-gate corridor), what is it going to be like in 20 years when passenger traffic is 50-100% greater than it is now?

People haven’t figured out the park and wait yet for whatever reason. Also I wonder why they don’t cover the whole length of the pickup and drop off areas. The pickup and drop off are a lot longer than people realize (longer than the old ones and without all the crosswalks) because only the part right in front of the terminal is covered. I always park before the canopy to drop off. Nobody is ever parked there. Same with after the canopy.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by airhero

People haven’t figured out the park and wait yet for whatever reason. Also I wonder why they don’t cover the whole length of the pickup and drop off areas. The pickup and drop off are a lot longer than people realize (longer than the old ones and without all the crosswalks) because only the part right in front of the terminal is covered. I always park before the canopy to drop off. Nobody is ever parked there. Same with after the canopy.

It's an interesting psychological game you point out. I noticed the same. In fact, I walked as far east (beginning) as I could and my family avoided 99% of the congested mess.

Using Google Maps's measuring tool, it appears the old canopy was 460 ft. (terminal 1) + 562 ft. (terminal 2) = ~1,000 feet.

It's trickier to determine the new airport. Apple Maps were the only ones to have a picture of the new terminal available, but no measuring tool. So using the legend in a highly unscientific janky way, I roughly figured the new canopy is about 500-600 feet long.

So I decided to line it up using photo software:



The curb may be similar in length. But the canopies are NOT EVEN CLOSE. So maybe a "fix" would be building longer canopies?