OC Transpo

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I assume that is 12 single length trains or 6 double trains.

I assume that is for growth; i.e. to reduce train headways at peak. Depending on what ridership does over the next year or so they may defer this purchase.

I wonder what the lead time is on 12 Spirits- is this a 2024 order for delivery in 2026?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I am curious, what your definition of “the downtown core” is if you think routes 6 and 7 avoid it?

I don't think routes 6 and 7 avoid the downtown core. I know that OC Transpo doesn't assign the right vehicles (artics) to serve those routes, though.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Great coverage by CBC Ottawa on the e-bus program:

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6067736

Other than discussion about the tech and financing there's two points that standout. First, they plan on rejigging routes to match the range (said in there to be 286 km).

Oh, great: more routes are going to get sliced and diced into uselessness.

[Uhuniau]

OK, so now that we've committed even more public treasure to electric buses, for some reason, on top of the third, and maybe fourth phases of LRT which prioritize the suburbs, can this city finally get around to improving urban transit in the urban area?

Or if not now, when?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Oh, great: more routes are going to get sliced and diced into uselessness.

Yep. And bus routes without transit destinations other than a LRT transfer station will see ridership decline.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Oh, great: more routes are going to get sliced and diced into uselessness.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Yep. And bus routes without transit destinations other than a LRT transfer station will see ridership decline.

...This isn't happening.

They plan to deploy them on the shorter blocks of routes, but the routes themselves will remain unchanged.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

OK, so now that we've committed even more public treasure to electric buses, for some reason, on top of the third, and maybe fourth phases of LRT which prioritize the suburbs, can this city finally get around to improving urban transit in the urban area?

Or if not now, when?

I don't think electric buses can be categorized as anti-urban. A bus is a tool for a transit operator. The question is how they employ them.

I raise my concerns because I'm a little surprised reading about the possible need to truncate routes when there are battery packs that would let OC Transpo cover any route in the network for a shift.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Yep. And bus routes without transit destinations other than a LRT transfer station will see ridership decline.

FUD.

And as usual without evidence.

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

They plan to deploy them on the shorter blocks of routes, but the routes themselves will remain unchanged.

This doesn't line up with what was said in the article that they would rejig routes.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

This doesn't line up with what was said in the article that they would rejig routes.

I'm not sure if this is what the article originally said, but it says:

[...] but also retraining drivers and mechanics, rescheduling routes to deal with a shorter travel range [...]

Anyway, "rejig"-ing routes doesn't line up with what Manconi or Scrimgeour were saying in the transit commission meeting. Since buses can be out for very long periods of time, they intend to schedule the electric buses on blocks of trips that result in the bus returning to the garage after a shorter period of time. It's just a matter of scheduling the trips for those particular buses to match their range.


In any case, I'm not sure what routes could be adjusted to better match the electric buses' range. Split the 6 at Rideau like they originally planned? Trim the 10 to end at Billings? I guess it's possible, but I doubt it based on what I heard from the meeting.

[lrt's friend]

FUD.

And as usual without evidence.

What I have said has been well documented over the years. A bus route that runs a short distance, with low frequency and accesses few if any amenities without a transfer will have low ridership.

As usual, you have assumed more into what I have stated.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

What I have said has been well documented over the years. A bus route that runs a short distance, with low frequency and accesses few if any amenities without a transfer will have low ridership.

None of this follows from the electrification of buses. And that is why I called out your assertion. Where's your evidence the routes are being modified to exclude "transit destinations other than LRT stations".

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

As usual, you have assumed more into what I have stated.

I have a tough time sticking to leaps of logic.

[TransitZilla]

OC Transpo has updated the network map on their website to reflect the new summer service, with the new 110, etc.

https://www.octranspo.com/en/plan-yo...s/network-map/

[rocketphish]

Council approves $1B transformation of diesel bus fleet to zero-emission buses
The entire Transpo bus fleet could be fully converted to zero-emission by 2036.

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Jun 23, 2021 • 6 minutes ago • 1 minute read

A $1-billion project that will introduce hundreds of electric battery-powered buses to OC Transpo’s fleet received council’s full approval on Wednesday.

Mayor Jim Watson said he didn’t expect there would be a major expansion of zero-emission buses when he called for a pilot project during the last municipal election campaign.

But a lucrative funding agreement with the federal government was too good to pass up, so the city will be in the market for 450 e-buses between 2022 and 2027.

The total cost when charging infrastructure is included is estimated at $986 million.

The Canada Infrastructure Bank is providing a $400-million loan and the federal government is offering up to $493 million in grants. The money is designed to cover the extra costs associated with having e-buses instead of diesel buses.

The city is also using its own capital funds that would have spent on diesel buses.

The entire Transpo bus fleet could be fully converted to zero-emission by 2036.

Four electric buses are already scheduled to be added to the fleet in the fall.

Some councillors, while supportive of the initiative, expressed apprehension with the city going into full gear on buying e-buses without a testing period.

Coun. Riley Brockington won support to make sure the e-buses are assessed for their winter capabilities before annual acquisitions under the project.

That measure should be a “bare minimum,” Coun. Rick Chiarelli said, noting that the city’s experience with other big contracts, like LRT and the green bin program, have been costly lessons.

jwilling@postmedia.com
twitter.com/JonathanWilling


https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...emission-buses

[Dundas]

https://cupe.ca/rideau-transit-maintenance-workers-join-1cupe?utm_medium=rss

Rideau Transit Maintenance workers join CUPE

Workers at Rideau Transit Maintenance in Ottawa voted almost unanimously yesterday to join CUPE.

Rideau Transit Maintenance has a 30-year contract to maintain the Confederation Line, Ottawa’s new light rail transit system.

“This group does the same work as our members in transit systems across the province, including at OC Transpo. They contacted CUPE because they want the same protection and voice that all our members enjoy,” said Marc Lafrance, a CUPE representative who is involved in the organizing drive. “As of today, they have new rights and we can work together to build a better, safer workplace.”

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I don't think electric buses can be categorized as anti-urban. A bus is a tool for a transit operator. The question is how they employ them.

It's not that e-buses are anti-urban. It's that they don't really do anything, on their own, to solve the problems of urban transit service in our LRT deserts, and never will.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

It's not that e-buses are anti-urban. It's that they don't really do anything, on their own, to solve the problems of urban transit service in our LRT deserts, and never will.

Yes!! We have a finite amount of money and spending hundreds of dollars per ton of carbon removed with electric busses means less actual improved transit infrastructure. In this case it's mostly federal money but still it makes it that much harder to ask for phase 4 money or a NCC loop etc.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes!! We have a finite amount of money and spending hundreds of dollars per ton of carbon removed with electric busses means less actual improved transit infrastructure. In this case it's mostly federal money but still it makes it that much harder to ask for phase 4 money or a NCC loop etc.

You're looking at the opportunity cost the wrong way here. The whole switch is about $1B. Of that, $400-500M is in one time grants for infrastructure and to overcome the higher purchase price of the buses. There's another $400M in loans from the CIB. And the city has to pony up $100-200M.

The CIB loan is structured such that it is conditional on BEB operating savings equating to our exceeding the loan. That should give some insight into the feds intentions.

The grants they are making to help with the transition will effectively help transit agencies lower operating costs in the future through electrification, which frees up capital for other priorities and limits vulnerability to fluctuating fuel prices.

Next, Canada is home to several busmakers. It's in the national economic interest to give them a home market for their BEBs.

So the feds aren't just doing this for reasons of climate change. And the idea that if they didn't help with electrification, they'd hand over billions for Stage 3 and 4 instead is flawed. Also, OC Transpo is not the only agency they are helping with electrification. They are doing this nationwide.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

It's not that e-buses are anti-urban. It's that they don't really do anything, on their own, to solve the problems of urban transit service in our LRT deserts, and never will.

And I don't think anyone expects e-buses to improve transit service. While I agree that improving service is important, it isn't the only issue facing transit service.

While diesel buses are cleaner than the dozens of cars they each replace, they are by no means clean. Just ask a cyclist why they don't like riding behind a diesel bus.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by roger1818

And I don't think anyone expects e-buses to improve transit service. While I agree that improving service is important, it isn't the only issue facing transit service.

While diesel buses are cleaner than the dozens of cars they each replace, they are by no means clean. Just ask a cyclist why they don't like riding behind a diesel bus.

Disappointingly, the view that electric buses would have been a suitable alternative to the LRT is not that uncommon of a view for people to hold.

(Of course, those people are clueless idiots, but you get the idea)

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Disappointingly, the view that electric buses would have been a suitable alternative to the LRT is not that uncommon of a view for people to hold.

(Of course, those people are clueless idiots, but you get the idea)

I'm just excited to walk down an arterial main street and now have to shout over a roaring bus. That is 1000% the best reason to go electric, let alone cost savings over the service life of the bus.