Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Your observation is not confirmed by the census. The percentage of people living in the Halifax census metro area for whom French is the language most spoken at home went from 1.23% of the total population at the 2001 census to 1.12% at the 2021 census.

Also, the percentage of people in the Halifax census metro area who had French as their mother tongue was 3.12% at the 2021 census, but only 1.12% had French as their most spoken language at home as I've said, which shows a clear Anglicization of the native French speakers.

Halifax is not Francophone Shangri-La I'm afraid.

Primary language spoken at home isn't really what I was getting at, although this is not necessarily incompatible with my observations - a greater overall number of people speak French (either as a first or second+ language) and nearly all of these people also speak at least some English.

(I originally just meant in terms of raw numbers, but I think this would also be true percentage-wise.)

So there are likely more living situations with one Francophone and one Anglophone partner (for example), or one or more Francophone roommates among a group of 4-8 sharing a house (a common living arrangement here), and in these cases English does become the common language "spoken at home" more often than not. But any of these people (including the non-Francophone ones) could be studying in French or work at a job that requires French.

On the other hand I would have been surprised if much of the growth was in households with Francophone parents who don't speak any English raising their children as unilingual Francophones (etc) - I absolutely agree with that. Although that's a lot more possible/practical now than it would have been 20-30 years ago or more, and certainly some households here fall into that category, but not many. I only think this is noteworthy in contrast with most of Canada.

As a side note though you do have a better understanding of Canadian census data than most Canadians do

What has always puzzled me if why the Acadiens have never asked for their own province.

I think part of it is that the geography would be too complicated for it to work well - the present-day Francophone-Acadian parts of NS are at opposite ends of the province, and are both quite far from the Acadian parts of NB, which are mostly along its eastern coastline. There's no obvious choice for a capital, they would have a hard time getting their voice heard federally (in the HoC and in federal elections, for example), and their prospects and quality of life aren't really limited by the current system the way they might have been in pre-60s Quebec.

Overall the process of carving a new Francophone province out of existing ones, so that new province can get to be the #2 Francophone province (of 2) by a wide margin in every metric seems daunting and like more pain than gain.

That would prevent the erosion of the language (and eventual extinction of the Acadian identity).

For most of the Acadians I know in my generation, the "eroded" language is the identity (or at least a big part of it).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Hali87

For most of the Acadians I know in my generation, the "eroded" language is the identity (or at least a big part of it).

That's only transitional though. You don't remain at the "eroded language" stage for ever. The Acadians of today are like the Cajuns of Louisiana in the 1950s. Fast forward 70 years, and they are all Anglophones now.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Hali87

For most of the Acadians I know in my generation, the "eroded" language is the identity (or at least a big part of it).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0r0_urwo8

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Acajack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0r0_urwo8

First time I heard this was blasting at the canteen at Parlee Beach. Is NB the Louisiana of Canada?

[Loco101]

Very similar to a lot of the French or rather Franglais heard in Timmins.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

That's only transitional though. You don't remain at the "eroded language" stage for ever. The Acadians of today are like the Cajuns of Louisiana in the 1950s. Fast forward 70 years, and they are all Anglophones now.

For a lot of these communities the best case scenario in the future will be as natively anglophone populations in everyday life but with some degree of second language French.

This does not correspond to the Québec vision of what it means to be francophone of course.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

For a lot of these communities the best case scenario in the future will be as natively anglophone populations in everyday life but with some degree of second language French.

This does not correspond to the Québec vision of what it means to be francophone of course.

I wonder if linguists agree? Could this not develop into a distinct dialect? I guess it would need its own literature and official use for that to happen.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I wonder if linguists agree? Could this not develop into a distinct dialect? I guess it would need its own literature and official use for that to happen.

In order for a new dialect or language to emerge and have some stability (like Haitian Creole), most everyone in a given region would have to speak it.

But anglophones in Acadian regions of New Brunswick and Nova Scotia don't speak Chiac (the Acadian franglais of SE NB). They speak English just like other Canadians and Americans do.

Chiac according to linguists is not a linguistic end-state. It is a transitional phase between more standard French and standard North American English.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Nashe

First time I heard this was blasting at the canteen at Parlee Beach. Is NB the Louisiana of Canada?

I don't think that NB or where I live will become like Louisiana. I don't know Louisiana's education system but how prominent is the French language in it? Most francophones here go to french-language schools. We have a federal government that has French has an official language, labelling with French on products, a provincial government (in ON) where French is used on almost everything in regions with many francophones and it's an official language in NB. The presence of the French-language was taken away in Louisiana in so many ways unlike in Canada.

Now there has certainly been a decline in the use of French in ON and NB and the quality of it and there are serious concerns about future generations but it's not as though some overwhelming power is taking over to get rid of it.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I don't think that NB or where I live will become like Louisiana. I don't know Louisiana's education system but how prominent is the French language in it? Most francophones here go to french-language schools. We have a federal government that has French has an official language, labelling with French on products, a provincial government (in ON) where French is used on almost everything in regions with many francophones and it's an official language in NB. The presence of the French-language was taken away in Louisiana in so many ways unlike in Canada.

Now there has certainly been a decline in the use of French in ON and NB and the quality of it and there are serious concerns about future generations but it's not as though some overwhelming power is taking over to get rid of it.

French-first schools in minority settings in the ROC these days are producing more and more people who are mostly first language anglophones but who also know passable French as a secondary language.

Strong exceptions would be in Hearst, Prescott-Russell, Caraquet, Tracadie, Shippagan, Edmundston, etc.

Eastern parts of Ottawa and the Moncton area in between but transitioning to what you can imagine.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Now there has certainly been a decline in the use of French in ON and NB and the quality of it and there are serious concerns about future generations but it's not as though some overwhelming power is taking over to get rid of it.

Sure there is. Cultural momentum. (See: the language used in writing this post)

It's just not something visible in the sense of a defined political objective by a person/organization.

It's not the scheming of great minds as much as the slow erosion of natural forces. Which is actually probably more insidious and clever, if one thinks about it. Why do the hard work of agitation when time and patience will do the work for you?

If economic and demographic momentum of those areas was reversed, maybe there's an argument to be made for language durability in those regions. I fully expect Northern Ontario/Northern New Brunswick to become more anglophone as time marches on.

Hence the position of the Government of Quebec with respect to language.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Nashe

First time I heard this was blasting at the canteen at Parlee Beach. Is NB the Louisiana of Canada?

Lafayette and Baton Rouge both look like they could be somewhere in (or at least adjacent to) New Brunswick.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Lafayette and Baton Rouge both look like they could be somewhere in (or at least adjacent to) New Brunswick.

Lafayette is actually one of Moncton's "sister-cities".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Lafayette and Baton Rouge both look like they could be somewhere in (or at least adjacent to) New Brunswick.

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on this beyond generic North American vernacular. There isn't really much of an Acadien architectural style.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on this beyond generic North American vernacular. There isn't really much of an Acadien architectural style.

You say that but both of those LA streetviews scream Shediac to me. Or at the very least Dieppe

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Lafayette and Baton Rouge both look like they could be somewhere in (or at least adjacent to) New Brunswick.

Wow! I see why you are saying this. I have to agree.

[harls]

https://www.businessinsider.com/air-...-french-2023-4

An Air Canada passenger says he was left furious after being served in business class by a flight attendant who didn't speak French

An Air Canada passenger filed a complaint with language authorities after a flight attendant was unable to serve him in French.

Jean-Pierre Beaudoin told the Canadian French-language channel TVA Nouvelles that he was flying in business class last month from Quebec City to Fort Lauderdale, Florida when a flight attendant who only spoke English served him.

He asked for a bilingual flight attendant to serve him so that he could speak in French.

Beaudoin told TVA the crew member spoke to a colleague and then told him "in English, 'Sir, this is my section. You have the right to leave the plane or I will serve you.'"

He said a man, who was either an Air Canada employee or an airport agent, came on to the plane to tell him that either an English-speaking attendant would serve him, or he would have to leave the aircraft.

Beaudoin said: "It made my blood boil. I was thinking, 'We're in Quebec. The flight originates from Quebec.' It wasn't a choice for me to leave the plane."

Beaudoin, who speaks both French and English, told TVA he decided to stay on the plane and only reply in French when crew spoke to him in English. He described the act of rebellion as a "matter of principle."

He told the outlet he'd filed a complaint with the Quebec Office of the French Language after the flight. Beaudoin said he didn't complain to Air Canada because he didn't trust their process, instead escalating the matter to language authorities.

Air Canada is subject to Canada's Official Languages Act, which gives equal status to both English and French. The airline was fined $15,700 in 2019 after a couple complained that some signs on a domestic flight were only in English, BBC News reported.

In a statement to Insider, an Air Canada representative said two of the three cabin crew on the flight could speak French.

"Therefore, service in the two official languages was available and offered. In this regard, it is false to claim that the only solution was to ask him to leave the aircraft since French-speaking staff members were able and available to serve Mr. Beaudoin in French," the airline added.

The Quebec Office of the French Language didn't immediately respond to requests for comment from Insider made outside normal working hours.

[1overcosc]

Why is it always Air Canada?

[Nashe]

If I somehow found myself in business class you could serve me in Vogon poetry. All I'd need to know is the Vogon word for "sure!".

[big T]

Originally Posted by Nashe

If I somehow found myself in business class you could serve me in Vogon poetry. All I'd need to know is the Vogon word for "sure!".

For all the talk of “checking your privilege” these days, I would hope the difference between an amusing interlude from an otherwise unencumbered life in your language of choice vs. what likely was the umpteenth instance of not being served in / not receiving documentation in / having to switch from your officially and legally recognized native language just to go about your day/week/month, all the while paying top dollar with an explicit expectation of service, should be rather clear.

Shit happens, on planes especially, but “get over it” is not typically an appropriate customer service response.