In your view, is Salt Lake a city of 1.2 million or 2.7 million?

[delts145]

Hey SaltCityScaper, I apologize if I came across as argumentative, as that was not my intention. You seem like a pretty friendly guy and I am definitely interested in your opinion and perspective.

The current estimated greater metro area population of Las Vegas in 2023 is 2,899,000.
Referring to my post above and by the same population 2023 estimates the 2023 population of the Wasatch Front's three official connected Metros and its one Micropolitan Metro are almost exactly the same, the greater Wasatch CSA area being 2,898,954. Of course, the eastern micropolitan fringe area of Park City/Heber could subjectively be considered as disjointed here and there between resorts, incorporated towns, and planned communities. However, for the most part, it definitely has a feeling of a continual flow of development, especially since all of the growth this past decade. There is an 11-mile stretch going around the Western mountain borderline on the 201/I-80 that separates the Salt Lake Valley population from Tooele's Stansbury Park. Officially though, Tooele is now considered by the government as a part of the Salt Lake MSA, and not a CSA appendage.

My question would be given the recent past 5-10 years growth of greater Las Vegas what do you think is the largest empty desert separation between physically developed borders? I know not too long ago there were a number of large empty desert spaces between development, but I imagine that has changed or is changing rapidly since the Vegas recovery from the great recession.

I liked your comments about the historic structures in Salt Lake City. City Hall, Temple Sq., the Capitol, etc. are magnificent. If anything, Salt Lake needs to intersperse its new development with more authentic classic designs. There's so much new build that more authentically recreated classics would help to give it a more organically developed feel. One of the reasons I enjoy living in and around Downtown L.A. is because there are so many historic beauties that have been restored to their original glory. I like much of the recent contemporary styles, but there should always be a mix of vintage thrown in to keep things attractively interesting and not vapid or boring. Also, I hope Downtown Salt Lake continues to push the development of its inner blocks and complete streets. The size of those blocks and streets really lend themselves to incredible creativity, and would really set Salt Lake apart from a typical modern Western U.S. city.


Edit: I thought since the stats of the MSA/CSA seem to be in a few instances a little all over the place I would post the latest 2023 pop. stats. estimates. Keep in mind this is aside from whatever an individual's subjective vibe feels as was asked by Atlas at the beginning of the Thread. These are as reported by the https://worldpopulationreview.com/us...nty-population

Central MSA/Salt Lake City&County................................................................................................................................. 1,231,912

Western Metro/Tooele County, which is included officially as part of the Salt Lake MSA. This is most likely
because of the large number of commuting employment ..................................................................................................77,042

Southern MSA/ Provo/Orem, which is now developmentally interconnected with Salt Lake's MSA....................................840,000

Northern MSA/Ogden/Layton, Interestingly, much of this MSA is developmentally much closer to the
Northern climes of Salt Lake City Proper and its downtown rather than the designated Metro Hub of Ogden.....................750,000

Eastern Micropolitan Metro/Park City/Heber, I-80 extending through Salt Lake's Parley's Canyon and over to Heber Valley.
Punctuated by a recurring flow of resort communities and traditional incorporated towns. As a reference to those of us
who are familiar with Greater L.A. This would be like taking the 5 to Valencia/Santa Clarita, except the development
along I-80 is far more prevalent than the Valley and Valencia............................................................................................82,332


_________________________________________________________________________________________Total..2,898,954

[SaltCityScrapers]

Originally Posted by delts145

Hey SaltCityScaper, I apologize if I came across as argumentative, as that was not my intention. You seem like a pretty friendly guy and I am definitely interested in your opinion and perspective.

The current estimated greater metro area population of Las Vegas in 2023 is 2,899,000.
Referring to my post above and by the same population 2023 estimates the 2023 population of the Wasatch Front's three official connected Metros and its one Micropolitan Metro are almost exactly the same, the greater Wasatch CSA area being 2,898,954. Of course, the eastern micropolitan fringe area of Park City/Heber could subjectively be considered as disjointed here and there between resorts, incorporated towns, and planned communities. However, for the most part, it definitely has a feeling of a continual flow of development, especially since all of the growth this past decade. There is an 11-mile stretch going around the Western mountain borderline on the 201/I-80 that separates the Salt Lake Valley population from Tooele's Stansbury Park. Officially though, Tooele is now considered by the government as a part of the Salt Lake MSA, and not a CSA appendage.

My question would be given the recent past 5-10 years growth of greater Las Vegas what do you think is the largest empty desert separation between physically developed borders? I know not too long ago there were a number of large empty desert spaces between development, but I imagine that has changed or is changing rapidly since the Vegas recovery from the great recession.

I liked your comments about the historic structures in Salt Lake City. City Hall, Temple Sq., the Capitol, etc. are magnificent. If anything, Salt Lake needs to intersperse its new development with more authentic classic designs. There's so much new build that more authentically recreated classics would help to give it a more organically developed feel. One of the reasons I enjoy living in and around Downtown L.A. is because there are so many historic beauties that have been restored to their original glory. I like much of the recent contemporary styles, but there should always be a mix of vintage thrown in to keep things attractively interesting and not vapid or boring. Also, I hope Downtown Salt Lake continues to push the development of its inner blocks and complete streets. The size of those blocks and streets really lend themselves to incredible creativity, and would really set Salt Lake apart from a typical modern Western U.S. city.


Edit: I thought since the stats of the MSA/CSA seem to be in a few instances a little all over the place I would post the latest 2023 pop. stats. estimates. Keep in mind this is aside from whatever an individual's subjective vibe feels as was asked by Atlas at the beginning of the Thread. These are as reported by the https://worldpopulationreview.com/us...nty-population

Central MSA/Salt Lake City&County................................................................................................................................. 1,231,912

Western Metro/Tooele County, which is included officially as part of the Salt Lake MSA. This is most likely
because of the large number of commuting employment ..................................................................................................77,042

Southern MSA/ Provo/Orem, which is now developmentally interconnected with Salt Lake's MSA....................................840,000

Northern MSA/Ogden/Layton, Interestingly, much of this MSA is developmentally much closer to the
Northern climes of Salt Lake City Proper and its downtown rather than the designated Metro Hub of Ogden.....................750,000

Eastern Micropolitan Metro/Park City/Heber, I-80 extending through Salt Lake's Parley's Canyon and over to Heber Valley.
Punctuated by a recurring flow of resort communities and traditional incorporated towns. As a reference to those of us
who are familiar with Greater L.A. This would be like taking the 5 to Valencia/Santa Clarita, except the development
along I-80 is far more prevalent than the Valley and Valencia............................................................................................82,332


_________________________________________________________________________________________Total..2,898,954

Enterprise and the area south of Spring Valley still has a lot of open space.

The only big gap I'm aware of is Railroad Pass, between Henderson and Boulder City.

Boulder, of course, only has 15,000 people.

With the new freeway bypass in that area, I could see that empty area on the Boulder side of the pass getting housing over the next 10 - 15 years, although the pass itself would still create a physical separation, just like Point of the Mountain.


Henderson still has room to grow down by the pass too.

[Wigs]

I can see the appeal of SLC for the Wasatch mountain views/vistas alone!

[mobius42]

Where are you all getting that the Vegas Valley has 2.9 million people? Clark County, according the latest census estimate, has only 2.3 million people.

[AaronPGH]

I don't see how this CSA isn't considered one urban area. Been splitting my time out here the last 3 winters, and we drive allllllll over this giant sprawling metro. It is certainly not dense, however. I love the incredible access to the outdoors, but the actual city leaves a lot to be desired. It all feels like one massive never-ending suburb in need of a road diet.

[edale]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

I don't see how this CSA isn't considered one urban area. Been splitting my time out here the last 3 winters, and we drive allllllll over this giant sprawling metro. It is certainly not dense, however. I love the incredible access to the outdoors, but the actual city leaves a lot to be desired. It all feels like one massive never-ending suburb in need of a road diet.

Yep, that's my perception of the SLC area, too. I'm not sure why I was called out for saying it, as anyone not blinded my boosterism would see that there is very little actual urban development in the SLC metro area, and that lack of urbanism makes it feel smaller and less substantial than the population numbers would suggest.

[SaltCityScrapers]

Originally Posted by mobius42

Where are you all getting that the Vegas Valley has 2.9 million people? Clark County, according the latest census estimate, has only 2.3 million people.

I got the 2.9 million figure from the first few google results (Vegas Valley from Wikipedia and Macrotrends), but you're right, the 2020 Census lists Clark County as 2.3 million.

Keep in mind, Clark County population is Vegas Valley plus maybe 40,000 (basically, Mesquite, Boulder City and a few isolated one-stop-light towns).

Current estimates for 2023 are around 2.5 million.

My perception of the Vegas metro hasn't changed: LV metro is much bigger than the SL Metro. I live in the SL Valley, but travel back and forth to visit family and friends all the time. Just calling it how I see it.

If you feel otherwise, that's fine.

I'm a SL Valley lifer and it doesn't bother me one bit to say my hometown metro is smaller than the Vegas metro.

[dimondpark]

Las Vegas seems like an extremely compact metro from a development standpoint imo. Like you see a clear end of development quite abruptly and all of a sudden youre literally in the wide open desert. Salt Lake and environs is much 'longer'

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by SaltCityScrapers

I got the 2.9 million figure from the first few google results (Vegas Valley from Wikipedia and Macrotrends), but you're right, the 2020 Census lists Clark County as 2.3 million.

Keep in mind, Clark County population is Vegas Valley plus maybe 40,000 (basically, Mesquite, Boulder City and a few isolated one-stop-light towns).

Current estimates for 2023 are around 2.5 million.

My perception of the Vegas metro hasn't changed: LV metro is much bigger than the SL Metro. I live in the SL Valley, but travel back and forth to visit family and friends all the time. Just calling it how I see it.

If you feel otherwise, that's fine.

I'm a SL Valley lifer and it doesn't bother me one bit to say my hometown metro is smaller than the Vegas metro.

I've spent a good share of time in Las Vegas (visiting yearly in my yound adulthood, my sister lived there, etc), and only a small amount of time in Salt Lake City, including being there most recently less than a year ago. My impression is that SLC is a much bigger metro than Las Vegas. Sure, the strip and everything ancillary to it is very impressive, but those are just "disneyland" buildings to me. Salt Lake City seems like a larger real metro area with a good and historic downtown area, a large amount of suburban sprawl, and satellite cities that can stand on their own (Ogden, Provo, etc.). Las Vegas is a humongous tourist trap with some suburban sprawl.