CHICAGO | Highrise Projects & Construction, v7

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by munchymunch

Looking at you 130 franklin^



Conservatory tower yes, this site has been controlled by jokes of developers in the past so it was never really real.

That's right.....was American Invsco somehow still involved in those goofy proposals over the years? If so and I'm recalling correctly, some might call that in itself a tell.

As far as I know, the site is now owned by STRS Ohio, so obviously a very serious investor. But they would of course need a development partner. Wonder who that might be.....

So, I actually really like this design. I don't think we somehow need a very tall tower here, and this is actually a decent density of hotel for a part of the Loop that could still use a bunch more off-office hours activity.

But - is this a real (and current) proposal I wonder? If it is, could this be as-of-right?

Also, re 130 N Franklin. Curious to see when the next version of a proposal pops up there. At this stage, I wish Tishman Speyer would either sell or JV with another major player. In my view the only way we are remotely likely to get anything approaching a supertall tower (excluding some sort of ornamental bs at the top) is if the program changes. It's very difficult to imagine an all-office tower in Chicago breaking above the (at most) 800s'. Not to mention, with all of the near-term uncertainty in the office market in general, it's absolutely *possible* that we may be looking at a bit of a drought for major new office towers following Salesforce (although there are some decent counterarguments to that position, so I'm certainly not convinced we are - at least as of the moment).

[munchymunch]

^ Yes you got in invesco, however I’m not sure who was worse them or the previous owners Big Horn Capital…

Not sure if this is real, if I were an insider I could tell you unfortunately I’m not.

On 130 Franklin I doubt Tishman would be selling the site. They are still marketing it quietly, like a few other projects (wacker sites and 590 madison). In terms of future office development it’s kind of a wait and see game still not sure how the post-covid work environment will change. Although I’m curious if we ever hear about that 98 story building someone mentioned a few months ago…

[SamInTheLoop]

^ Yeah, you're probably right re selling. Maybe a possibility of them adding a partner with major firepower? I just have become a little disillusioned with their Chicago pre-leasing game over the last several years. Given the very solid A/A- site (I'll reserve A+ for riverfront), I've pretty much run out of excuses for them at this point.

[ardecila]

201 N Clark is nice but if they're going to all that trouble to carve a void at the corner, why extend the lobby out to that space instead of making it a plaza like 151 N Franklin?

The height and density are just fine, this is not a supertall site. Arguably Thompson Center is not a supertall site either, but the opportunity of a whole block in the Loop creates new possibilities.

[chicubs111]

^ Huh...this site doesnt have to be a supertall (over 1000 ft) but this can defiantly handle something over 800ft.. This is the loop core now so buildings like the legacy can be sandwiched in tighter quarters..and regarding the thompson center...if a whole city block dead center in loop isnt a site for a supertall then what is!??...

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

The 11 story building that was permitted will be 178 ft. The 288 ft tower will be built across the street: https://neighborsofwestloop.com/311-...-sterling-bay/

Ohhhh man. I just realized which one 345 Morgan is:

https://chicagoyimby.com/2021/06/ful...on-market.html

I have a visceral dislike for this design. I hate it. HATE. Despise. Detest.
I find it repulsive. Not quite sure I'm being clear enough, my feelings are that strong.

I would be acutely averse to it even without the arches - but they really put the supercharged projectile in my vomit.

Wonder if Sterling Bay is actually going ahead without an anchor? Despite the overall soft and very uncertain office market at the moment, I actually think that's possible.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by chicubs111

^ Huh...this site doesnt have to be a supertall (over 1000 ft) but this can defiantly handle something over 800ft.. This is the loop core now so buildings like the legacy can be sandwiched in tighter quarters..and regarding the thompson center...if a whole city block dead center in loop isnt a site for a supertall then what is!??...

Legacy/Heritage worked because it had direct lake/park views and was adjacent to Millennium Park. It was tailor-made for rich folks looking for a pied-a-terre in the city, and it was totally oriented around lifestyle amenities (views, parks, museums, shopping, restaurants). The very names of those towers are catnip to rich, aging Boomers. Not a great comparison to 201 N Clark or Thompson Center sites, which are landlocked sites in the middle of the Loop plateau, and not especially close to amenities either.

Thompson Center is probably an office site first and foremost, because the transit connections are good to bring thousands of people in/out each day (although it would be nice to have some performing arts component to enrich the Theatre District). And office just isn't a good fit for supertall buildings in Chicago anymore. Arguably it never was, we just had two companies - Sears and Standard Oil of Indiana - who had cataclysmic amounts of money and wanted to make an statement with their headquarters. All of our other supertall buildings have been primarily residential or mixed-use, so I expect that to be true in the future as well. That means future supertalls will likely be concentrated near the lakefront and/or Michigan Ave.

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by Skyguy_7

Also, 160 N Morgan is moving forward in the bidding phase of things. Walsh is building it for Sterling Bay. 32 floors.

I'm not in construction, but this seems early for a project that doesn't hasn't taken the first step in getting city approvals yet?

More angles of the Sonder project 424 S. Wabash.
Source: https://twitter.com/UrbanizeChicago/...962415623?s=20

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by chicubs111

^^ Wasnt this the site of a supposed 900ft plus proposal?... The loop core defiently deservers better than this squat building!...I dont understand why in the core of the loop where basically there is no pushback on height so many developers are going to short and squat... I mean block 37 is a perfect example.

I mean there's a reason you aren't seeing many tall residential proposals downtown. The land values are too high relative to the massive upgraded ARO requirements. Notice how all the proposals are only in the West loop or other places where land is virtually free so they can afford to put 20% ARO on site...

[Randomguy34]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

I mean there's a reason you aren't seeing many tall residential proposals downtown. The land values are too high relative to the massive upgraded ARO requirements. Notice how all the proposals are only in the West loop or other places where land is virtually free so they can afford to put 20% ARO on site...

Don't high land values justify building a +500 ft building?

[chicubs111]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Legacy/Heritage worked because it had direct lake/park views and was adjacent to Millennium Park. It was tailor-made for rich folks looking for a pied-a-terre in the city, and it was totally oriented around lifestyle amenities (views, parks, museums, shopping, restaurants). The very names of those towers are catnip to rich, aging Boomers. Not a great comparison to 201 N Clark or Thompson Center sites, which are landlocked sites in the middle of the Loop plateau, and not especially close to amenities either.

Thompson Center is probably an office site first and foremost, because the transit connections are good to bring thousands of people in/out each day (although it would be nice to have some performing arts component to enrich the Theatre District). And office just isn't a good fit for supertall buildings in Chicago anymore. Arguably it never was, we just had two companies - Sears and Standard Oil of Indiana - who had cataclysmic amounts of money and wanted to make an statement with their headquarters. All of our other supertall buildings have been primarily residential or mixed-use, so I expect that to be true in the future as well. That means future supertalls will likely be concentrated near the lakefront and/or Michigan Ave.

You act like legacy and 200 north Clark are miles and miles away from each other... ok one has the park literally steps away but the other has the river walk like a block north , theatre district, and state street around the corner. You really think Thompson center site wont be a supertall or near supertall?...I respectfully disagree on that one.

[harryc]

June 17

[harryc]

June 17

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

Don't high land values justify building a +500 ft building?

No, high land values add to the basis of any units constructed. Ultimately if government restrictions become worse, land values may fall to account for the onerous costs, but that generally takes time because prices are sticky.

And yes, one way of defraying high land costs is to increase density, but that door has slammed shut with the ARO requirements that are triggered by any zoning change. You need a large building with very pricey units to defray the costs of 15 or 20% affordable. Add into the equation an alderman like Reilly who arbitrarily restricts building height and density for no reason and getting involved with a zoning change or PD becomes a nightmare. The odds of getting something approved that falls between Reilly and the NIMBYs maximum size limit and still big enough to economical given ARO requirements is slim.

Best to go to the West Loop where land is cheap and NIMBYS are scarce. Much easier to provide the massive amount of affordable units when you pay half as much per unit for the land.

[BrinChi]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Best to go to the West Loop where land is cheap and NIMBYS are scarce. Much easier to provide the massive amount of affordable units when you pay half as much per unit for the land.

Any chance this is by design so that cheaper land gets developed rather than letting the most expensive areas absorb the bulk of the demand? Daley and even Rahm were criticized for focusing too much on downtown. So the stricter ARO pushes development outward into the neighborhoods more than it would otherwise? I'm skeptical it's intentional, but just curious what others think.

[Randomguy34]

Originally Posted by BrinChi

Any chance this is by design so that cheaper land gets developed rather than letting the most expensive areas absorb the bulk of the demand? Daley and even Rahm were criticized for focusing too much on downtown. So the stricter ARO pushes development outward into the neighborhoods more than it would otherwise? I'm skeptical it's intentional, but just curious what others think.

Yup, the city has said that it was intentional for the 10% requirement to remain in middle & low-income communities, while the 20% requirement is in wealthy & gentrifying communities, so that development is more likely to be spread out. Some of the affordable housing advocates I've heard from said they agreed with the the city's decision, so that new developments & wealth aren't concentrated in a few booming neighborhoods

[marothisu]

2 new high rise proposals...

1) 1217 W Washington Blvd in the West Loop. It's been a vacant lot for a few years after the developer tore it down for a tax break, even though the building was kind of historical. New building to be 19 stories, 207 feet tall with 288 residential units, 110 parking spaces, and ground floor commercial.

Street view:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/12...!4d-87.6575354



2) 2141 S Wabash Ave - Wabash & Cermak. A new building proposed that will rise 12 stories, 150 feet tall with 150 units, 48 parking spaces, and ground floor commercial. This is from the same developer/owner as the new Aspire residences next door (256 feet tall).

Area for new construction is the vacant land to the right in this picture:
https://image1.apartmentfinder.com/i...ding-photo.jpg

Building on the left of course. Aspire is already built and on the right:
[IMG][/IMG]

[ardecila]

Ah I was confused on that Wabash project because you posted the alley elevation (east side).

Cermak still feels like a ghost town every time I go through... such a weird area, everything lives or dies by McCormick Place. Even some of the restaurants don't bother opening unless there's a convention going on. Also I usually bike or drive through bustling Chinatown first, so the contrast is pretty stark.

Good to see more TOD down there, it needs a LOT more permanent residents and businesses to serve them.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Ah I was confused on that Wabash project because you posted the alley elevation (east side).

Cermak still feels like a ghost town every time I go through... such a weird area, everything lives or dies by McCormick Place. Even some of the restaurants don't bother opening unless there's a convention going on. Also I usually bike or drive through bustling Chinatown first, so the contrast is pretty stark.

Good to see more TOD down there, it needs a LOT more permanent residents and businesses to serve them.

McCormick just needs more permanent residents before any of that changes.

More development in all of those vacant/parking lots

[jc5680]

Originally Posted by marothisu

2 new high rise proposals...

1) 1217 W Washington Blvd in the West Loop. It's been a vacant lot for a few years after the developer tore it down for a tax break, even though the building was kind of historical. New building to be 19 stories, 207 feet tall with 288 residential units, 110 parking spaces, and ground floor commercial.

(…)

Crains has a rendering:

19-story apartment building planned for West Loop
Rents are planned to be 10 to 20 percent cheaper than the neighborhood average.

DANNY ECKER