Winnipeg James Armstrong Richardson International Airport

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Don't think any airline would elevate YWG to the point of having that kind of utility.

At the end of the day:

- Very small metro/catchment area both by population and economics
- Very price sensitive, low proportion of regular business travellers (few HQs)
- Very high airport fees
- Lots of weather related challenges (cold, ice, snow, etc.)

It's a tough sell.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

At the end of the day:

- Very small metro/catchment area both by population and economics
- Very price sensitive, low proportion of regular business travellers (few HQs)
- Very high airport fees
- Lots of weather related challenges (cold, ice, snow, etc.)

It's a tough sell.

To be honest even YYC is lucky to have a major hub with WS, let alone cities like YEG/YWG. Unfortunately Canada is pretty small so YYZ/YUL/YUL are the only natural global hubs, while YYC is a natural North American hub that is lucky that WS decided to get 787s.

It sucks but it's the same reason why cities Columbus, or Indianapolis or Oklahoma city don't have any hub operations either.

[Atrial78]

For the majority of travelers, international travel is relatively rare compared to travel within North America. A short flight to a hub city followed by a long haul is reasonable in this case. As Winnipeg grows, I believe it will benefit from more non-stop flights to major destinations in North America (ex. increasing LAX/LV flights to daily, non-stop to Chicago/NYC/Miami). Curious to see if there will be any changes if Westjet completes its merger with Sunwing.

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by hehehe

To be honest even YYC is lucky to have a major hub with WS, let alone cities like YEG/YWG. Unfortunately Canada is pretty small so YYZ/YUL/YUL are the only natural global hubs, while YYC is a natural North American hub that is lucky that WS decided to get 787s.

It sucks but it's the same reason why cities Columbus, or Indianapolis or Oklahoma city don't have any hub operations either.

Good points. Yes true.

Calgary YYC is lucky to have WestJet as they continue to build its main hub there & adding new flights/ frequencies to Domestic/US/International destinations. Plus ULCC Lynx Air main base is YYC -which has most of Lynx flights too.

While Air Canada Vancouver YVR, Toronto YYZ & Montreal YUL continues to build up its 3 main hubs to Domestic/US/ International destinations.

[kattiff]

Bit of a heads up to anyone who is flying to the US fr YWG on Delta WestJet or Swoop.
My friend who works in the airport has told me that their companies are not happy with the delays these airlines have been having in the mornings with their departures.
Friday AM being the worst. MSP 645am, LAX 7am and AZA 730am
Security can’t handle the volume and US Customs is extremely slow
Security only has two lines but filter into one for the body scan. And no dedicated crew line so you got three sep crews also holding up the nexus line.
And US Customs won’t get more officers or do any more OT I was told.

The airlines have been advised they will have to start leaving people behind because they need their on time departures. Airport authority isn’t helping and US Customs isn’t helping to try find a solution.

At least with westjet they have options but delta just has the one flight still. crappy to miss it…. Yet it’s only busy in am then dead right after.
The airport and customs keep approving these close departure times together when the airline asks for them but yet they can’t handle it

Security opens at 430 and US Customs at 5.
They won’t open it sooner….
So warning to all who are flying out.
Be there early early early to get in line

[thebasketballgeek]

^I definitely noticed customs took quite a bit longer on my 7am flight to LA two days ago. We got to the Airport at 5 and got passed all the checks right when boarding was about to start. Of course the plane was delayed like an hour to get everyone on board and too defrost the wings.

[esquire]

The transborder area is adequately sized and staffed for one departure at a time, with no overlap. It's a bit of a disincentive for flying directly to the US out of YWG. Might make more sense to connect somewhere with more preclearance capacity like YYC instead.

[plrh]

Originally Posted by esquire

The transborder area is adequately sized and staffed for one departure at a time, with no overlap. It's a bit of a disincentive for flying directly to the US out of YWG. Might make more sense to connect somewhere with more preclearance capacity like YYC instead.

Is it possible to add US flights without pre-clearance from YWG? I would much rather fly to New York or Boston direct from YWG and then go through customs in those locations rather than stopping in Toronto with their pre-clearance. I have no idea if you can answer this question.

[kattiff]

Originally Posted by plrh

Is it possible to add US flights without pre-clearance from YWG? I would much rather fly to New York or Boston direct from YWG and then go through customs in those locations rather than stopping in Toronto with their pre-clearance. I have no idea if you can answer this question.

Yes you can post clear if the airline and airport authority come to an agreement

There was talk before the US Flights coming back after covid they were thinking of closing YWG US Pre Clear because it was simply not busy and unsure of recovery. But it’s picking back up, this is what my friend has told me.

[casper]

Originally Posted by plrh

Is it possible to add US flights without pre-clearance from YWG? I would much rather fly to New York or Boston direct from YWG and then go through customs in those locations rather than stopping in Toronto with their pre-clearance. I have no idea if you can answer this question.

That currently happens in Vancouver.

US preclearance in Vancouver is open from early morning to around 8 pm. If a flight is scheduled to depart after US preclearance closes then it uses the international concourse and ends up clearing customs in the US. Cathy Pacific use to do this with their tag on flight from Vancouver to JFK. During the summer season Delta use to have a redeye from Vancouver to Atlanta that also did this. Neither of these flights returned post COVID.

Not certain this would be a desirable feature. US airports can be a mess for international customs depending on the time of the day. I am usually flying out of YYJ and find SEA hit and miss. Either their no lineup or its a zoo in a number of widebodies are arriving at the same time. I use to fly regularly out of YXE and it was equally hit and miss. The early morning flight to Denver would sometimes arrive before US customs opened in Denver. You were stuck waiting on the aircraft with the door closed. The MSP flight usually arrived at a slow time but the odd time you were behind a widebody and it would be a zoo.

If there was demand YWG should be able to rework some of the walls to add a second swing gate.

[Biff]

WAA still has a 4 gate expansion in the plans for the international side. The pandemic pushed all of this back until things return to a more consistent level. The new thought was in 2025 or 26.

[CoryB]

Back from LAX and some observations on things.

1. Despite what you may hear elsewhere the WestJet check in counter is stuck in a tiny corner of terminal 2, not terminal 3 where the flights operate from. You then need to walk back to terminal 3 (the Delta terminal) to get the flight. There is also a fair bit of construction on the terminals in that area as it looks like they are adding a LRT line to the airport similar to what you see in YVR, PHX, etc.

2. At YWG on the US preclearance side, that end of the lobby (pre-security) is definitely underused so there is potential to rework the area and add more screening capacity. Based on a YWG tour from an open house pre-pandemic, US preclearance has different security requirements and even a different baggage screening process for checked luggage so suggesting it be combined into the other screening area isn't realistic.

Further, the US Customs side only had two Nexus terminals. They looked to be many years old going back before the pandemic and both were offline the day of my flight meaning any would-be Nexus passengers needed to also be manually screened by staff.

Speaking of the staff, our agent shared they were from New Jersey before taking the job here. It sounds like they could be 1-2 year posting with possible renewals. They said they planned to be here about six years total. They also said YWG is definitely a favorable posting over some others despite the weather we get here.

And to expand on the Nexus side I know that before the pandemic the USA has an agreement with the EU to let its passport holders use the eGates in EU airports.

3. That leads into the Canada customs side for the return flight.

a. I was bored at the airport and had ArriveCan on my phone so filled it in. Not sure if it sped things up at YWG but it was lots of the questions you would have expected from the terminals there.

b. Speaking on the terminals, the pre-pandemic Nexus terminals which themselves were fairly new have been replaced with EU style eGates. One of the nice parts of the change is no longer needing to get yourself lined up correctly with the camera. It oddly was really insistent on seeing your passport even though it was a Nexus lane. Not sure why. The installation of the eGates is somewhat humorous though as you can literally walk around the group of them but they have electronic gates between them that open once you are approved to continue. Likely something that will change in the future. Also the crew line seems to still need to use the previous Nexus terminals.

c. The pre-clearance area for Canadian customs could use a rework. It is really only meant to hold passengers from a single flight however we landed about the same time as another flight needing customs. This resulted in people spilling back into the small area at the bottom of the escalators. When the crew processing moves to eGates perhaps expanding the regular line a bit into the Nexus/Crew space and just leaving a walkway to get to the eGates could add some hold capacity?

d. The other piece is once you are through customs there are only two luggage carousels. That is definitely something to give some thought to when considering overall trans-border operations. Keep in mind in winter all the Mexico/Cuba/Carribean/etc flights also need to arrive back to Canadian customs.

4. In terms on all the early morning departure times, the challenge isn't so much on the YWG side but on the other side. For example when the Provincial government, YWG and WestJet look into doing a direct flight to LAX the slot, gate time, etc at LAX are going to have far more sway over the flight schedule than the YWG slot times. Also it is possible external stakeholders such as Netflix could also influence the time of that flight. The one I have long wondered is why don't DL and WS come to an agreement to have WS run say twice daily YWG-MSP flights with their Dash-8 planes? I know it risks diverting Winnipeg origin travellers connecting through MSP instead of YYC but how much of a loss would that truly be for WS?

[Biff]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Back from LAX and some observations on things.

1. Despite what you may hear elsewhere the WestJet check in counter is stuck in a tiny corner of terminal 2, not terminal 3 where the flights operate from. You then need to walk back to terminal 3 (the Delta terminal) to get the flight. There is also a fair bit of construction on the terminals in that area as it looks like they are adding a LRT line to the airport similar to what you see in YVR, PHX, etc.

We did this flight back in Nov. The part about the check in being in another terminal was cause for some confusion due to the construction. It was poorly marked as you walked into the terminal, which was basically a small corridor made of construction drywall. There was 6 or so of us flyers (not traveling together) who were all wondering were to go. As a group we chose an elevator that looked promising and ended up being in the middle of the terminal construction (security?). Obviously being in the wrong place we back tracked and went the other way down the corridor to the check in which had 4 agents in the space about the size of a 7-11. I'm a fairly laid back traveler so it was a bit of a whatever. Definitely not self explanatory at that time. Hopefully they worked out some kinks.

[CoryB]

I know if your ride mistakenly drops you off at LAX terminal 3 there are a couple signs directing WestJet passengers to terminal 2. If you leave 3 from the door closest to 2 and enter the first door of 2 you magically are in the right spot.

The other thing that was a bit of a surprise which I forgot to mention before is WestJet in LAX does not currently have self serve terminals so no printing your own boarding passes and doing baggage tagging like you do at YWG which was definitely a surprise as the YWG system is fairly customer focused and friendly.

[kylbaz]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Back from LAX and some observations on things.

1. Despite what you may hear elsewhere the WestJet check in counter is stuck in a tiny corner of terminal 2, not terminal 3 where the flights operate from. You then need to walk back to terminal 3 (the Delta terminal) to get the flight. There is also a fair bit of construction on the terminals in that area as it looks like they are adding a LRT line to the airport similar to what you see in YVR, PHX, etc.

2. At YWG on the US preclearance side, that end of the lobby (pre-security) is definitely underused so there is potential to rework the area and add more screening capacity. Based on a YWG tour from an open house pre-pandemic, US preclearance has different security requirements and even a different baggage screening process for checked luggage so suggesting it be combined into the other screening area isn't realistic.

Further, the US Customs side only had two Nexus terminals. They looked to be many years old going back before the pandemic and both were offline the day of my flight meaning any would-be Nexus passengers needed to also be manually screened by staff.

Speaking of the staff, our agent shared they were from New Jersey before taking the job here. It sounds like they could be 1-2 year posting with possible renewals. They said they planned to be here about six years total. They also said YWG is definitely a favorable posting over some others despite the weather we get here.

And to expand on the Nexus side I know that before the pandemic the USA has an agreement with the EU to let its passport holders use the eGates in EU airports.

3. That leads into the Canada customs side for the return flight.

a. I was bored at the airport and had ArriveCan on my phone so filled it in. Not sure if it sped things up at YWG but it was lots of the questions you would have expected from the terminals there.

b. Speaking on the terminals, the pre-pandemic Nexus terminals which themselves were fairly new have been replaced with EU style eGates. One of the nice parts of the change is no longer needing to get yourself lined up correctly with the camera. It oddly was really insistent on seeing your passport even though it was a Nexus lane. Not sure why. The installation of the eGates is somewhat humorous though as you can literally walk around the group of them but they have electronic gates between them that open once you are approved to continue. Likely something that will change in the future. Also the crew line seems to still need to use the previous Nexus terminals.

c. The pre-clearance area for Canadian customs could use a rework. It is really only meant to hold passengers from a single flight however we landed about the same time as another flight needing customs. This resulted in people spilling back into the small area at the bottom of the escalators. When the crew processing moves to eGates perhaps expanding the regular line a bit into the Nexus/Crew space and just leaving a walkway to get to the eGates could add some hold capacity?

d. The other piece is once you are through customs there are only two luggage carousels. That is definitely something to give some thought to when considering overall trans-border operations. Keep in mind in winter all the Mexico/Cuba/Carribean/etc flights also need to arrive back to Canadian customs.

4. In terms on all the early morning departure times, the challenge isn't so much on the YWG side but on the other side. For example when the Provincial government, YWG and WestJet look into doing a direct flight to LAX the slot, gate time, etc at LAX are going to have far more sway over the flight schedule than the YWG slot times. Also it is possible external stakeholders such as Netflix could also influence the time of that flight. The one I have long wondered is why don't DL and WS come to an agreement to have WS run say twice daily YWG-MSP flights with their Dash-8 planes? I know it risks diverting Winnipeg origin travellers connecting through MSP instead of YYC but how much of a loss would that truly be for WS?

Good to know!

[kattiff]

Tomorrow January 9
655 MSP
700 LAX
700 AZA
What a complete mess it will be for those 3 flights all at once going into that US Security

[CoryB]

^^ It is somewhat funny as the staff for those three flights keep interrupting each other on the PA system to each do their own pre-boarding announcements.

[esquire]

It's funny, I booked my March trip to LAX just before the WS nonstop was announced and I was lamenting my luck, but now I think I'm OK with just connecting in YYC instead of having to get up extra early in the morning to deal with that f-cluster situation.

I remember taking a nonstop to Fort Lauderdale a few winters back and it was a similar scenario with three early morning transborder departures at practically the same time and an overwhelmed security/customs area. It was pretty stressful as we barely made our flight despite getting there way in advance. Some people didn't make it. Not a great start to the vacation. And this probably happened on a daily basis, which is nuts.

[Biff]

Yeah, but once you are on the plane you are in LA in just under 4 hours eating lunch at In-N-Out Burger by 11:30 am.

[CoryB]

It will be interesting to see how long the YWG-LAX route lasts especially with the new that the provincal government signed on to back it for a possible $4.8 million over three years. Seems to suggest it isn't going to run for just a few months and disappear.

And if you are looking for an LAX alternative, MSP has potential has it has several LAX a day. The challenge there right now is the 1x a day YWG-MSP flight. Worse, as the MSP flight leaves 10 minutes before the LAX flight it isn't a viable same day alternative if the LAX flight get cancelled and you need to fly that day.