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  #48601  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 3:26 AM
gandalf612 gandalf612 is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Yeah I will take this project in a heartbeat over what’s there.

But my least favorite part of that strip has always been those two strip malls and that giant Atlantic Ocean sized parking lot. For the love of God, why are the worst ones always the LAST to go?
The parking is DePaul, I don't understand why they couldn't just add a couple levels to the parking garage on Sheffield and stick something useful here
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  #48602  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 3:42 AM
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The parking is DePaul, I don't understand why they couldn't just add a couple levels to the parking garage on Sheffield and stick something useful here
If it's owned by the University, then they often have complicated very-long-term plans.
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  #48603  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 3:55 AM
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Not to mention that they are exempt from property taxes, effectively letting them sit on that for as long as they want at no cost to them.
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  #48604  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 4:53 AM
SamInTheLoop SamInTheLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Here's a rendering of the latest design.

Thank you. Needed this occipital lobe cleanse after 1320 W Fullerton.
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  #48605  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 1:34 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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looks like this crazy SFH market we are in right now may finally be boosting the prospects of some marginalized neighborhoods around the country - hope to see the same around town

https://www.wsj.com/articles/housing...st-11620811980

The red-hot U.S. housing market is giving an extra boost to the cheapest houses, including many in historically stagnant neighborhoods that have suffered from a lack of investment.

It is pushing forward efforts to revive the local economies of Detroit, Cleveland, Youngstown, Ohio, and other areas where homes can sell for as little as a few thousand dollars but typically require a lot of work to fix up and can’t be financed with a mortgage.

U.S. ZIP Codes where the median home cost less than $100,000 in early 2018 have had a 42% rise in prices in the three years since then, according to a CoreLogic Inc. analysis for The Wall Street Journal. That is about double the rise for ZIP Codes where the median was between $150,000 and $200,000, and triple the rise in locales with $300,000-plus price tags.
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  #48606  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 1:36 PM
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^I think LouisVanDerWright has already mentioned seeing places in North Lawndale and Little Village going quickly for over asking prices. From my own searches Bronzeville sales seem to have snowballed, a couple years ago prices were ticking up but it seems like now nothing can stay on the market there.
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  #48607  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 1:41 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
looks like this crazy SFH market we are in right now may finally be boosting the prospects of some marginalized neighborhoods around the country - hope to see the same around town

https://www.wsj.com/articles/housing...st-11620811980

The red-hot U.S. housing market is giving an extra boost to the cheapest houses, including many in historically stagnant neighborhoods that have suffered from a lack of investment.

It is pushing forward efforts to revive the local economies of Detroit, Cleveland, Youngstown, Ohio, and other areas where homes can sell for as little as a few thousand dollars but typically require a lot of work to fix up and can’t be financed with a mortgage.

U.S. ZIP Codes where the median home cost less than $100,000 in early 2018 have had a 42% rise in prices in the three years since then, according to a CoreLogic Inc. analysis for The Wall Street Journal. That is about double the rise for ZIP Codes where the median was between $150,000 and $200,000, and triple the rise in locales with $300,000-plus price tags.
Yeah, maybe slowly but surely.

If you take a look at some of my posts about sales price > list price in the last few pages, you'll see that some south side neighborhoods like Auburn Gresham, West Pullman, etc are seeing a lot of homes being remodeled, and then sold for above their list prices even. Some pretty decent remodels especially considering that these houses are all selling between $200K - $300K and usually have ample space.

Definitely more on the way - some people are scooping up decently sized, but not in great condition SFH for under $100K (usually even under $75K) in these areas, pouring in another $75K for renovation, listing for $200K+ and many selling for even more than listed.

My map is updated until Monday:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...993143056&z=13

Some examples from these neighborhoods of renovations, and then selling above their list price:
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...0_M76825-92662
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...0_M75330-23616
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...0_M72944-45126
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...3_M89381-20754
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...8_M85900-45478
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...8_M94551-80807

And I guarantee you'll see places like this hit the market in a matter of months, fully renovated and selling for $200K+. These also sold for above list price:
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...8_M85635-49393
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...0_M88790-17672
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...8_M83368-70815
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Last edited by marothisu; May 12, 2021 at 1:51 PM.
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  #48608  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 2:18 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Yeah, maybe slowly but surely.

If you take a look at some of my posts about sales price > list price in the last few pages, you'll see that some south side neighborhoods like Auburn Gresham, West Pullman, etc are seeing a lot of homes being remodeled, and then sold for above their list prices even. Some pretty decent remodels especially considering that these houses are all selling between $200K - $300K and usually have ample space.

Definitely more on the way - some people are scooping up decently sized, but not in great condition SFH for under $100K (usually even under $75K) in these areas, pouring in another $75K for renovation, listing for $200K+ and many selling for even more than listed.

My map is updated until Monday:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...993143056&z=13

Some examples from these neighborhoods of renovations, and then selling above their list price:
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...0_M76825-92662
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...0_M75330-23616
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...0_M72944-45126
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...3_M89381-20754
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...8_M85900-45478
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...8_M94551-80807

And I guarantee you'll see places like this hit the market in a matter of months, fully renovated and selling for $200K+. These also sold for above list price:
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...8_M85635-49393
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...0_M88790-17672
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...8_M83368-70815
is there literally anyone in the country renovating homes that isnt spitting out this exact same sausage grinder result? is this really the "look" every single person buying a home badly wants (considering theyre paying over ask)? its so beyond played out.
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  #48609  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 2:21 PM
SteelMonkey SteelMonkey is offline
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  #48610  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 2:24 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
is there literally anyone in the country renovating homes that isnt spitting out this exact same sausage grinder result? is this really the "look" every single person buying a home badly wants (considering theyre paying over ask)? its so beyond played out.
design trends come and go

people are not paying more because of any design or style, they are paying more because there is a supply shortage and also, more directly, because of the 15 offers on every for sale house
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  #48611  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 2:30 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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is there literally anyone in the country renovating homes that isnt spitting out this exact same sausage grinder result? is this really the "look" every single person buying a home badly wants (considering theyre paying over ask)? its so beyond played out.
It's really no different, average house wise, than any other era. Most houses follow some sort of prototype no matter the era.

Ultimately, are we caring this much in these neighborhoods? Imagine people with decent but not super high paying jobs, who can all of a sudden afford a nice house within Chicago for under $250K in or near their neighborhood, and also most likely the neighborhood perhaps in some ways benefitting from this type of investment. Cool, the design inside is not "inspired" but still nice. Who cares for these houses? The fact that they're getting investment, and not being knocked down is a good thing. I don't think these are particularly expensive remodels but each house is still usually getting a good $75K-$100K+ renovations.
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  #48612  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 2:31 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
design trends come and go

people are not paying more because of any design or style, they are paying more because there is a supply shortage and also, more directly, because of the 15 offers on every for sale house
i guess its just the proliferation of flippers and the particular "template" that they adhere to thats mind blowing. theres just going to be a lot of people house poor for a bunch of new drywall and a few cans of grey paint and home depot pendants in once charming craftsman homes once this game of musical chairs inevitably stops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Ultimately, are we caring this much in these neighborhoods? Imagine people with decent but not super high paying jobs, who can all of a sudden afford a nice house within Chicago for under $250K in or near their neighborhood, and also most likely the neighborhood perhaps in some ways benefitting from this type of investment.
i guess im not following. the homes are selling for more than they otherwise would be simply because a flipper acquired it and did 2 months of "work". if you couldnt afford a decent fixer upper at 100k (im not talking about the bombed out shells), how are you suddenly affording it at 350k? its easy credit, people stretching themselves thin in marginal areas simply to get into something they think they need, and we've seen before how this all ends. this supply shortage and asset bubble is driven entirely by rate policies which in no way are sustainable (as well as eviction moratoriums which also will not be around much longer). as a homeowner how are you going to gain equity when youre buying whats in reality a 100k home for 300k? if youre banking on it being 600k 10 years from now, thats a pretty dangerous game youre playing.

im all for renovations and re-investment. i want to see these neighborhoods rebound. but this isnt my first rodeo either.

Last edited by Via Chicago; May 12, 2021 at 2:42 PM.
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  #48613  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 2:40 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
i guess im not following. the homes are selling for more than they otherwise would be simply because a flipper acquired it and did 2 months of "work". if you couldnt afford a decent fixer upper at 100k (im not talking about the bombed out shells), how are you suddenly affording it at 350k? its easy credit, people stretching themselves thin in marginal areas simply to get into something they think they need, and we've seen before how this all ends.

im all for renovations and re-investment. but this isnt my first rodeo.
Are you assuming that people who are buying these are OK with living in houses that aren't very nice? (i'm not talking about bombed out shells either) I think that's the main thing here - there's an assumption that they don't want something nice. You are also making a ton of assumptions about who are even buying these houses. Who says they are even from the neighborhood? As pointed out before, there are a lot of homes with a lot of bids now, and it's forcing some people to go into other neighborhoods.

Also, none of these houses are going for $350K. Where are you even getting that figure from? In Auburn Gresham, the median of the "sale price > list price" this year for SFH according to my data is $215K, with a 4.7% median sale-list difference. Out of 29 of these sales, only 1 sold for above $300K ($312K).


Now here's some data about some of these areas, households in 2019 estimated to have income of $50K+/year

* Census Tract 7302.02 (Washington Heights) - 60.7% making $50K+/yr
* Census Tract 7301 (Washington Heights) - 50.5%
* Census Tract 7112 (Auburn Gresham) - 49.2%
* Census Tract 7113 (Auburn Gresham) - 46.7%
* Census Tract 7110 (Auburn Gresham) - 44.6%
* Census Tract 7115 (Auburn Gresham) - 43.8%
* Census Tract 7114 (Auburn Gresham) - 42.1%
* Census Tract 7301.01 (Washington Heights) - 37.5%
* Census Tract 7111 (Auburn Gresham) - 36.1%
* Census Tract 7109 (Auburn Gresham) - 30.1%
* Census Tract 7108 (Auburn Gresham) - 23.7%

In total in this little area in Auburn Gresham and a few tracts nearby in Washington Heights, that's over 5350 households making $50K+/year, and I'm sure there are people moving from other areas into these new homes and will probably increase. Contrary to what the media always tells you, there's still plenty of people and households in some of these areas that are solid middle class and even some who are upper middle class. This will only increase with these types of renovations, as well as some more OK paying jobs in the general area coming soon, and some not far away on the SE side.
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Last edited by marothisu; May 12, 2021 at 3:19 PM.
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  #48614  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 2:45 PM
Handro Handro is offline
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i guess im not following. the homes are selling for more than they otherwise would be simply because a flipper acquired it and did 2 months of "work". if you couldnt afford a decent fixer upper at 100k (im not talking about the bombed out shells), how are you suddenly affording it at 350k? its easy credit, people stretching themselves thin in marginal areas simply to get into something they think they need, and we've seen before how this all ends. this supply shortage and asset bubble is driven entirely by rate policies which in no way are sustainable (as well as eviction moratoriums which also will not be around much longer)

im all for renovations and re-investment. i want to see these neighborhoods rebound. but this isnt my first rodeo either.
Not everyone has interest in renovating a home, even if it would take only a few months of work and 75K (vs the 150K difference of buying it post-reno) Lots and lots and lots of people just want a nice place to live comfortably and relax after work and on the weekends. Plus these paint-by-numbers style choices are paint-by-numbers for a reason--they are basically blank slates. A buyer gets an updated home that feels newer and comfortable and they can make their own small changes over time without needs to make a big investment of time right at the outset of their home purchase.
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  #48615  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 2:53 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
i guess its just the proliferation of flippers and the particular "template" that they adhere to thats mind blowing. theres just going to be a lot of people house poor for a bunch of new drywall and a few cans of grey paint and home depot pendants in once charming craftsman homes once this game of musical chairs inevitably stops.



i guess im not following. the homes are selling for more than they otherwise would be simply because a flipper acquired it and did 2 months of "work". if you couldnt afford a decent fixer upper at 100k (im not talking about the bombed out shells), how are you suddenly affording it at 350k? its easy credit, people stretching themselves thin in marginal areas simply to get into something they think they need, and we've seen before how this all ends. this supply shortage and asset bubble is driven entirely by rate policies which in no way are sustainable (as well as eviction moratoriums which also will not be around much longer). as a homeowner how are you going to gain equity when youre buying whats in reality a 100k home for 300k? if youre banking on it being 600k 10 years from now, thats a pretty dangerous game youre playing.

im all for renovations and re-investment. i want to see these neighborhoods rebound. but this isnt my first rodeo either.
so many things are incorrect here
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  #48616  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 3:14 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
so many things are incorrect here
^ A fully rehabbed old property (when done correctly) doesn't just get $20k of updates, I mean it can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars with lots of pain and lots of sweat.

But some people are too obtuse to realize that, they're just mad that somebody is making money from their hard work (it's EVIL--it's not honest work like sitting in front of a computer all day)
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  #48617  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 3:18 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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One of the contractors I use had his Chicago home (which he no longer lived in, he rented it out) catch fire last year.

Using insurance money, he completely rehabbed it using his own labor and his own crew. The guy was never available for jobs for most of the year because he was busy with this project.

He ended up selling the home for $700k, a price he never would have come close to fetching in prior years. It worked out well for him and he made a killing.

That story makes me happy for him. But I guess some people feel differently.
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  #48618  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 3:30 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ A fully rehabbed old property (when done correctly) doesn't just get $20k of updates, I mean it can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars with lots of pain and lots of sweat.
A number of these homes have renovation permits that are quoting estimated costs of $75K+. A lot of these homes are not huge (though a few are 2000+ sq ft). Where are you getting your information from that they're only spending $20K on renovations of these homes?

An example is this home which sold in October 2020 for $53K for renovations. It has a permit issued in late November 2020 quoting an estimated cost of $85K for its renovation. In no way am I saying that's some master renovation at all, but it's still a little better than $20K.

Or this home, which sold in August 2019 for $85K. In mid March 2021, it was issued a permit to renovate to the estimated cost of $224,960.


The last one makes sense. it's essentially a shell. Not all of these places are shells or even bombed out. For example this house which sold for about 29% over its asking price. It's not a shell and it's not exactly bombed out either. I don't think you're going to get some high quality hardwood flooring everywhere in a renovation of this house, but these places on average are having renovations that are still a bit over just $20K.
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  #48619  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
design trends come and go

people are not paying more because of any design or style, they are paying more because there is a supply shortage and also, more directly, because of the 15 offers on every for sale house
I don't believe it's a primary (or even secondary, tertiary... ) factor, but I do believe that "currency" in the aesthetic of a home leads people to place value (above the expended value to create the aesthetic, in many cases) on the perceived social benefits that such a home affords. (For those that rely on external sources of personal valuation.)

I think ego -- often reacting only to new fixtures and finishes -- absolutely has an effect on the desirability of homes.
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  #48620  
Old Posted May 12, 2021, 3:38 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
A number of these homes have renovation permits that are quoting estimated costs of $75K+. A lot of these homes are not huge (though a few are 2000+ sq ft). Where are you getting your information from that they're only spending $20K on renovations of these homes?

An example is this home which sold in October 2020 for $53K for renovations. It has a permit issued in late November 2020 quoting an estimated cost of $85K. In no way am I saying that's some master renovation at all, but it's still a little better than $20K.

Or this home, which sold in August 2019 for $85K. In mid March 2021, it was issued a permit to renovate to the estimated cost of $224,960.


The last one makes sense. it's essentially a shell. Not all of these places are shells or even bombed out. For example this house which sold for about 29% over its asking price. It's not a shell and it's not exactly bombed out either.
^ Uhh, you missed the whole point of that post.
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