NASHVILLE | Development Showcase

[Texcitement]

Originally Posted by Dale

On a side note, if Amtrak expands to Nashville, would they likely use Union Station ?

Union Station is not likely to be a transit station b/c it's not suitable for moving large groups of people in/out quickly. The tracks that went through it and the giant canopy over them are long gone. It is now a very profitable hotel.

A new station would need to be built that can utilize all existing lines. Function would dictate a structure that straddles the three lines. That property is still owned by CSX whereas the station and the rest of the surrounding land are owned by various private entities. Unless a single property owner steps up and offers their property Metro/Tennessee will be inclined to deal only with CSX in this effort.

Fencing was erected this weekend around the property where the Ritz-Carlton tower and a companion apartment tower are planned. Land has been acquired. Initial permits for ground prep have been issued as well.

[Dale]

Originally Posted by Texcitement

Union Station is not likely to be a transit station b/c it's not suitable for moving large groups of people in/out quickly. The tracks that went through it and the giant canopy over them are long gone. It is now a very profitable hotel.

A new station would need to be built that can utilize all existing lines. Function would dictate a structure that straddles the three lines. That property is still owned by CSX whereas the station and the rest of the surrounding land are owned by various private entities. Unless a single property owner steps up and offers their property Metro/Tennessee will be inclined to deal only with CSX in this effort.

Fencing was erected this weekend around the property where the Ritz-Carlton tower and a companion apartment tower are planned. Land has been acquired. Initial permits for ground prep have been issued as well.

To clarify, is your last paragraph an aside or is it a possible site for an Amtrak station ?

[Texcitement]

Originally Posted by Dale

To clarify, is your last paragraph an aside or is it a possible site for an Amtrak station ?

LOL… Meant to make a separate comment. The Ritz Carlton towers are not related to the transit potential and Union Station. Sorry for the confusion.

[Dale]

Originally Posted by texcitement

lol… meant to make a separate comment. The ritz carlton towers are not related to the transit potential and union station. Sorry for the confusion.

np!

[PillowTalk4]

Originally Posted by Texcitement

Union Station is not likely to be a transit station b/c it's not suitable for moving large groups of people in/out quickly. The tracks that went through it and the giant canopy over them are long gone. It is now a very profitable hotel.

A new station would need to be built that can utilize all existing lines. Function would dictate a structure that straddles the three lines. That property is still owned by CSX whereas the station and the rest of the surrounding land are owned by various private entities. Unless a single property owner steps up and offers their property Metro/Tennessee will be inclined to deal only with CSX in this effort.

...

An Amtrak Station in Nashville will depend on the volume anticipated. I'm thinking it will not be that large of a facility given the limitations of the direct routes being discussed. Just based on stations I've gone through, not all are major in size. Some are actually just platforms with no covering. I would use the Charlotte Amtrak Station as an example of the possible size of a station in Nashville. I've traveled from DC to Charlotte via Amtrak and I was stunned at how small the Charlotte station is.



It sits about 2 miles outside of downtown and the parking lot according to a website has a capacity of 80 cars. When my train arrived all checked luggage was basically placed in a hallway for us to retrieve. I believe there were four ticket windows.

So, in essence a Nashville station probably won't be a grand facility at all. I'm sure it would be nicer than what is currently in Charlotte simply because it will be new. And, It will probably offer some amenities not found in Charlotte. But keep in mind most train stations are not like airports with shops and restaurants. Most train stations just aren't that busy to sustain it. Think more along the lines of a Greyhound bus terminal.

It is possible to still use the land behind Union Station Hotel as a station. It's currently a parking lot. I believe the city owns that land. Depending on which tracks are used for Amtrak, a station may require walkway bridges over the tracks to access the trains. Two big questions are which track is intended for Amtrak use and will there be a need to modify tracks to accommodate a passenger train station?

[NYC2ATX]

Will Pinnacle relocate from their current building in SoBro or will this be an expansion?

[Dale]

Originally Posted by PillowTalk4

An Amtrak Station in Nashville will depend on the volume anticipated. I'm thinking it will not be that large of a facility given the limitations of the direct routes being discussed. Just based on stations I've gone through, not all are major in size. Some are actually just platforms with no covering. I would use the Charlotte Amtrak Station as an example of the possible size of a station in Nashville. I've traveled from DC to Charlotte via Amtrak and I was stunned at how small the Charlotte station is.



It sits about 2 miles outside of downtown and the parking lot according to a website has a capacity of 80 cars. When my train arrived all checked luggage was basically placed in a hallway for us to retrieve. I believe there were four ticket windows.

So, in essence a Nashville station probably won't be a grand facility at all. I'm sure it would be nicer than what is currently in Charlotte simply because it will be new. And, It will probably offer some amenities not found in Charlotte. But keep in mind most train stations are not like airports with shops and restaurants. Most train stations just aren't that busy to sustain it. Think more along the lines of a Greyhound bus terminal.

It is possible to still use the land behind Union Station Hotel as a station. It's currently a parking lot. I believe the city owns that land. Depending on which tracks are used for Amtrak, a station may require walkway bridges over the tracks to access the trains. Two big questions are which track is intended for Amtrak use and will there be a need to modify tracks to accommodate a passenger train station?

Sounds plausible. Do you expect Amtrak to happen next 2-3 years ?

[PillowTalk4]

Originally Posted by Dale

Sounds plausible. Do you expect Amtrak to happen next 2-3 years ?

That will depend on Congress and what they are willing to approve in Biden's Infrastructure Plan. Realistically, I do not see it happening in the next 2-3 years. I hope I'm wrong. I think the US is long overdue for a rail system overhaul. We're are so far behind other countries with excellent rail services. High speed train service should be a priority for the U.S.

Also, the plan only connects Nashville to Atlanta. It does not include the former routes that connected Nashville to Louisville and up to Chicago. I would have hoped that there would have been a plan to connect East Tennessee through Nashville onto Memphis. But it does not.

[BnaBreaker]

Originally Posted by NYC2ATX

Will Pinnacle relocate from their current building in SoBro or will this be an expansion?

Relocation

[Supernaut]

Lol. Charlotte's train station would be an embarrassment to Paducah. Literally every train station in NC is nicer. That said,the new Gateway Station will be "Uptown" and will no doubt be a stunner. I imagine Nashville's first station will be more akin to Raleigh's Union Station. It's not tremendous in size but very modern and generating density in the immediate hood.

[Dale]

Originally Posted by Supernaut

Lol. Charlotte's train station would be an embarrassment to Paducah. Literally every train station in NC is nicer. That said,the new Gateway Station will be "Uptown" and will no doubt be a stunner. I imagine Nashville's first station will be more akin to Raleigh's Union Station. It's not tremendous in size but very modern and generating density in the immediate hood.

Charlotte’s is third-worldish. Apologies to the third world.

[Texcitement]

Originally Posted by Supernaut

Lol. Charlotte's train station would be an embarrassment to Paducah. Literally every train station in NC is nicer. That said,the new Gateway Station will be "Uptown" and will no doubt be a stunner. I imagine Nashville's first station will be more akin to Raleigh's Union Station. It's not tremendous in size but very modern and generating density in the immediate hood.

It's probably going to be a combined transit and Amtrak hub as the tracks are all CSX tracks. And CSX has not yet made the decision to sell. If they do, they're going to get an amazing price. A decision will be made in the next year.

[Dale]

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

[jmecklenborg]

Union Station is still the obvious location for a station should passenger rail grow to over 20~ intercity trains per day plus an expansion of commuter rail. The existing union station building would be ignored and a new headhouse built either where the old platform sheds were or on the opposite side of Broadway.

The lack of even a mention of cross-Tennessee service linking Memphis, Nashville, and Knoxville is perplexing, especially given all of the student travel to/from Knoxville and the chronic hours-long backups on the Cumberland Plateau.

There is also zero airline service to some nearby cities thanks to the disappearance of the midwestern hubs outside of Chicago and Detroit.

[DZH22]

The Nashville diagrams page is severely out of date. It doesn't even include the 542' Four Seasons which is almost done! This link includes built, U/C, and proposed and it's woefully incomplete. Somebody from here please make a pet project out of this.
http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=93705846

[BnaBreaker]

Originally Posted by DZH22

The Nashville diagrams page is severely out of date. It doesn't even include the 542' Four Seasons which is almost done! This link includes built, U/C, and proposed and it's woefully incomplete. Somebody from here please make a pet project out of this.
http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=93705846

Yeah, it's probably missing some 60-70 buildings that should be on there... way more if you want to include proposals.

[DZH22]

Originally Posted by BnaBreaker

Yeah, it's probably missing some 60-70 buildings that should be on there... way more if you want to include proposals.

Update requests go here (near the bottom of the main forum page):
http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=29

If it were me, I would start with built and U/C, tallest first, capturing at least everything over 300'. It won't be me though, since I'm mainly concerned about updating my own city (Boston area) but that link is where to do it. The diagrams are a great comparison tool, for pretty much every US city outside of Nashville that is!

[The Best Forumer]

Originally Posted by PillowTalk4

Here's the rendering of the Pinnacle Building to be in Nashville Yards:

This is truly awesome

[PillowTalk4]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Union Station is still the obvious location for a station should passenger rail grow to over 20~ intercity trains per day plus an expansion of commuter rail. The existing union station building would be ignored and a new headhouse built either where the old platform sheds were or on the opposite side of Broadway.

The lack of even a mention of cross-Tennessee service linking Memphis, Nashville, and Knoxville is perplexing, especially given all of the student travel to/from Knoxville and the chronic hours-long backups on the Cumberland Plateau.

There is also zero airline service to some nearby cities thanks to the disappearance of the midwestern hubs outside of Chicago and Detroit.

I agree that Union Station will probably still be the prime location considered for any new rail service for Nashville. I'm not sure where on the opposite side of Broadway a headhouse could be built considering that there's a Grand Hyatt across the street, Nashville Yards beyond that and a new high rise is planned for the old Tennessean site. I don't think there's any available land on the north side of Broadway that would be available. And, unless a decision on service is made to Nashville within the next few months, I doubt that a facility could be incorporated into the base of any of the buildings being built in Nashville Yards.

If there is no intrastate rail servicing Chattanooga, Cookeville, Knoxville, Memphis, Murfreesboro, Nashville and the Tri-State area in northeast TN, then it is a missed opportunity to increase passenger usage and decrease cars on the road. I would even add Clarksville and Jackson to that list.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by PillowTalk4

I agree that Union Station will probably still be the prime location considered for any new rail service for Nashville. I'm not sure where on the opposite side of Broadway a headhouse could be built considering that there's a Grand Hyatt across the street, Nashville Yards beyond that and a new high rise is planned for the old Tennessean site. I don't think there's any available land on the north side of Broadway that would be available. And, unless a decision on service is made to Nashville within the next few months, I doubt that a facility could be incorporated into the base of any of the buildings being built in Nashville Yards.

If there is no intrastate rail servicing Chattanooga, Cookeville, Knoxville, Memphis, Murfreesboro, Nashville and the Tri-State area in northeast TN, then it is a missed opportunity to increase passenger usage and decrease cars on the road. I would even add Clarksville and Jackson to that list.

Just two platforms (a single island) could handle 6 trains per hour, per direction, no problem, so it's inconceivable that they'd need more than four platforms.

I think the bigger strategy being discussed behind the scenes is getting the freight switching activity out of there and turning almost all of that land over to developers. The railroad is sitting on a literal goldmine. Getting the freight activity out of the gulch means passenger/commuter rail would be free to travel in many directions without the need for flying crossovers.

Right now the rail ROW is 4-10 tracks wide. They could trim it down to two freight track and two passenger rail tracks, with four passenger tracks near Broadway. This 4-6 track corridor would be a width that could be easily bridged by air rights construction.

Electrified commuter rail running every 30 minutes throughout the day at 110mph on upgraded Class 6 tracks out to Dickson, Clarksville, Mt. Juliet, Murfreesboro, Franklin, etc. would be huge. All of those routes could be thru-running if the present leisurely freight switching can be expelled from the gulch.