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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bnk View Post
I don't know guys but is Pullman safe enough anymore? I know its way down there but South Holland is a hell of a way down south. Or is Pullman just too far south and far away from "the City"? Because there's nothing in the south suburbs to do or live down by now.

Right now Bridgeport to South Holland is 37 mins by car.


https://hotpads.com/11336-s-saint-la...=-87.6012&z=15

Those two bedrooms are each 12"x12" upstairs. Full unit remodeled except the basement. $1400.


Here is a 3 bedroom unit for the same price.

https://hotpads.com/11345-s-langley-...=-87.6012&z=15
I know next to nothing about the Pullman neighborhood, bnk. It's obviously way, way far south, but with the Metra Electric line being there transit access is still good, and obviously those units you hotlinked look pretty amazing. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I am on the area can chime in.

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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 11:55 PM
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ardecila ardecila is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Yeah the shoebox for a bedroom thing isn’t just a Pilsen thing. You see that in vintage building stock all through the north side as well.

But I’m pretty sure new construction still has higher rents than rehabbed older buildings. You get what you pay for.
YMMV... obviously one of the new TOD rental buildings with amenities and an elevator will rent for more than a gut-rehabbed vintage walkup. But my girlfriend rents in a "new construction" - 2000s before the crash - building at a price that actually beats a lot of gut rehabs I've seen.

It's not all vintage building stock with the bedroom problem, just tenements on a 25' lot with side gangways. If the lot is wider, or if the building was built for commercial use up to the lot line, then there isn't really a problem.

Also, the 1920s were a turning point because developers started building apartments en masse for the middle class; previously most apartments were for the working poor, but social mores were changing in big Northern cities. In fact, even the language changed from "tenement" to "apartment" to make the new lifestyle more marketable to the middle class. Design changed as well. Bedrooms got larger to accommodate nicer furniture, they switched from stove heating to radiant heating, the exterior of the buildings started to get more elaborate with fancy brick and limestone carvings, and "picturesque" decorative styles like Spanish Revival, Gothic, Craftsman, etc. Better plumbing, mechanical laundry, and supermarkets eliminated the need for backyard toilets, clotheslines, chicken coops etc. Now the buildings could push to the alley, and new front yards or courtyards were created instead to impress visitors and passersby.

1920s middle-class streetscape:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9807...7i16384!8i8192

c. 1900 tenement streetscape:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8385...7i16384!8i8192
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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 1:54 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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^ Good explanation.

I guess I own a lot of former “tenements”
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 2:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
YMMV... obviously one of the new TOD rental buildings with amenities and an elevator will rent for more than a gut-rehabbed vintage walkup. But my girlfriend rents in a "new construction" - 2000s before the crash - building at a price that actually beats a lot of gut rehabs I've seen.

It's not all vintage building stock with the bedroom problem, just tenements on a 25' lot with side gangways. If the lot is wider, or if the building was built for commercial use up to the lot line, then there isn't really a problem.

Also, the 1920s were a turning point because developers started building apartments en masse for the middle class; previously most apartments were for the working poor, but social mores were changing in big Northern cities. In fact, even the language changed from "tenement" to "apartment" to make the new lifestyle more marketable to the middle class. Design changed as well. Bedrooms got larger to accommodate nicer furniture, they switched from stove heating to radiant heating, the exterior of the buildings started to get more elaborate with fancy brick and limestone carvings, and "picturesque" decorative styles like Spanish Revival, Gothic, Craftsman, etc. Better plumbing, mechanical laundry, and supermarkets eliminated the need for backyard toilets, clotheslines, chicken coops etc. Now the buildings could push to the alley, and new front yards or courtyards were created instead to impress visitors and passersby.

1920s middle-class streetscape:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9807...7i16384!8i8192

c. 1900 tenement streetscape:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8385...7i16384!8i8192
Thanks for that very detailed explanation, ardecila. This really helps shed some light on the whole "shoebox bedroom" phenomenon!

Aaron (Glowrock)
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  #25  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Beverly has less than great transit access though (either bus to 95th red line, or the Rock Island line).
Beverly is great for families or people with cars or locals who have secure jobs nearby but really not good for anyone who will be transit-captive.

Pullman is similar plus not quite as safe as Beverly.

Bridgeport, McKinley Park, Woodlawn, Hyde Park, or Bronzeville are probably your best bets. Of those, northern Bronzeville near 35th and West of MLK, Jr (they're a Jewel at 35th and MLK) if you want Green Line access, east of MLK if you're ok with mainly busses and want easier lake access, or southern Bronzeville near Pershing and MLK is ok, too, with a Mariano's at Pershing and MLK and the Green Line stop at Indiana. Or check out Kenwood near 47th, east of Cottage Grove (Walmart Market at Cottage Grove and 47th) with good bus service on Cottage Grove, it a little east there's good Express busses downtown jumping from 47th and LSD plus Metra Electric.

The Bronzeville locations also put you close to the Dan Ryan so that might be the best balance of Transit and driving, although along 47th isn't too bad, just s little further from the Dan Ryan, but the Eastern part being close to Hyde Park and, depending on how East, easy Express bus access and maybe even walkable to 55th and 53rd retail districts in Hyde Park. MAC properties has some good selections in Hyde Park and Kenwood - I rented a studio from them for my ex as part of our settlement and they seemed like good landlords.
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 1:40 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
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Originally Posted by glowrock View Post
Some of the places I've seen, the so-called bedrooms were quite literally just barely large enough to maneuver a full-sized mattress into, yet alone an actual bed with headboard/footboard. I'm talking in the range of 7x9, those kind of sizes. That's a closet, not a bedroom. Heh
yeah, 7'x9' is definitely very small for a bedroom.

i wouldn't have a problem putting a child on a twin bed in a bedroom that size, but for an adult on a full-size bed? i'm with you, no thanks.

the master bedroom in our place is 10'x13', which is very small by suburban master bedroom standards, but that gets us a queen with a night stand on either side and a couple dressers on the opposite wall. that's all i really need from a room where i'm asleep 95% of the time.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Mar 21, 2019 at 1:55 PM.
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 3:05 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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The primary issue with bedrooms being small is when you have 2-3 people sharing an apartment. Sometimes you get annoyed with your roommates and just want to hang out alone in your room for privacy. Having a 7X9 box for a room becomes an issue then.

People will tolerate that sort of thing in Manhattan but in Chicago we're just not there yet.

I suspect that as rents go up over the years, that will change. Otherwise we will have to tear down all of our prewar building stock--and nobody wants that. Brand new construction will charge premium rents, but those who want a bargain will have to give up some space and live in this older building stock. It is precisely for this reason that rising rents and gentrification are a good thing--it continues to allow investment in these century old buildings.
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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 3:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
yeah, 7'x9' is definitely very small for a bedroom.

i wouldn't have a problem putting a child on a twin bed in a bedroom that size, but for an adult on a full-size bed? i'm with you, no thanks.

the master bedroom in our place is 10'x13', which is very small by suburban master bedroom standards, but that gets us a queen with a night stand on either side and a couple dressers on the opposite wall. that's all i really need from a room where i'm asleep 95% of the time.
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
The primary issue with bedrooms being small is when you have 2-3 people sharing an apartment. Sometimes you get annoyed with your roommates and just want to hang out alone in your room for privacy. Having a 7X9 box for a room becomes an issue then.

People will tolerate that sort of thing in Manhattan but in Chicago we're just not there yet.

I suspect that as rents go up over the years, that will change. Otherwise we will have to tear down all of our prewar building stock--and nobody wants that. Brand new construction will charge premium rents, but those who want a bargain will have to give up some space and live in this older building stock. It is precisely for this reason that rising rents and gentrification are a good thing--it continues to allow investment in these century old buildings.
And this.

Aaron (Glowrock)
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 5:53 AM
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Originally Posted by glowrock View Post
Thanks for that very detailed explanation, ardecila. This really helps shed some light on the whole "shoebox bedroom" phenomenon!

Aaron (Glowrock)
My bedroom is 7’x11’... it’s a sore subject with me! A queen cannot fit in my room or the door will not open fully, but you can either do a full or an XL twin along one wall or tucked into the end of the room (walls on 3 sides).
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 3:46 PM
Baronvonellis Baronvonellis is offline
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Wow, ok I didn't know there were 7x9 bedrooms in Chicago, those are like Manhattan tenements. I guess they are like that in some of the southside tenement neighborhoods.

I've got a 1890 2 bedroom apartment on a 25 foot lot, and my bedrooms are 15x7 but tapers to 15x9 halfway down, its a weird shape as there was a light well cut into the side of a wood frame building even though there are gangways between the buildings. And a 12x9 bedroom. I use the 15x9 and that's plenty of space. 7x9 sounds like a child's rooms.

I also put up some custom compo wall ornamentation to make it look more historical and fit with a gilded age style. I think it looks like a European palace now. I'd put up some photos but it's a pain in the butt to post pictures here.

Last edited by Baronvonellis; Mar 22, 2019 at 3:57 PM.
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