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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 10:51 PM
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Quote from Steven Roth...


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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2018, 4:46 AM
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That 6.6 msf of development is more than the Manhattan West site, or about the same including the massive 5 Manhattan West, on the same superblock size. Assuming MSG stays in place,
that's a lot of development. Assuming you move about 2msf, that would still leave a lot of development on that block. Roth's statement about "towers" leads me to believe that
it would be something similar to the earlier proposal, but structured differently. That footprint would NEED to be massive.

Anyway, this was a proposal from that time for the 8th Avenue end, where the theater currently sits...



http://strata-architects.com/portfolio/moynihan-east-2/

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With SOM, 2006

The design of a new railroad station and 5.5 million square feet of civic development on the site of the existing Pennsylvania Station in Manhattan.

As Senior Designer, Nizam Kizilsencer was one of the design leaders in this grand project while employed with Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, LLP,
The project was stopped after a series of planning and concept design studies.

Images by by-encore.






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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2018, 6:32 PM
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“The old 2 Penn has a 60,000 square foot footprint, the new [one] would have a 120,000 square foot-plus footprint at the base, perfect for our creative class tenants,” Roth said. “There would be towers above and a significant retail component below sandwiched between the train station and the office base.”


Thinking of Vornado's previous plan with Related for a two towered development over a huge base, Foster's plan.


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...4&postcount=11













Foster does design nice 2-towered developments. Maybe they could bring him back...



https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/place...#photo-2186632




https://www.bdonline.co.uk/news/fost...033141.article
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2018, 7:53 PM
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I know these are ideas that've been thrown around in years past; but I hope the first two for sure don't get zombified.

In order:

1. Hot-ass mess.

2. Contextually dissonant, aesthetically vulgar, proportionally inappropriate and visually disconcerting, all on a monumental scale yet to be fully ascertained.

3. Could work; but lose the blue glass and the overdone skeletonized spandrel motif...IOW, the (not too) odd polygon idea with a snappy façade such as can be found in Melbourne or TO, provided ESB's presence is duly respected.

Last edited by Prezrezc; Apr 30, 2018 at 8:04 PM.
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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2018, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prezrezc View Post
I know these are ideas that've been thrown around in years past; but I hope the first two for sure don't get zombified.

In order:

1. Hot-ass mess.

2. Contextually dissonant, aesthetically vulgar, proportionally inappropriate and visually disconcerting, all on a monumental scale yet to be fully ascertained.

3. Could work; but lose the blue glass and the overdone skeletonized spandrel motif...IOW, the (not too) odd polygon idea with a snappy façade such as can be found in Melbourne or TO, provided ESB's presence is duly respected.


Obviously they wouldn't recycle those exact proposals for this site, but Foster is well capable, as is Bjark Ingels BIG, which may or may not still be on.
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  #26  
Old Posted May 1, 2018, 5:25 PM
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It would be a shame if this can't get done.



https://therealdeal.com/2018/05/01/v...self-up-again/

Vornado mulls splitting itself up, again
Steve Roth said spinoffs of retail, development businesses are possible






By Konrad Putzier
May 01, 2018



Quote:
In his annual letter to investors last month, Roth wrote that Vornado is considering tearing down 2 Penn Plaza and replacing it with a new tower. But during Tuesday’s call, he said that the development probably won’t happen after all because the company is having a hard time landing public subsidies to fund it.

“It does not appear that that plan is going to go forward and is feasible,” Roth said. Instead, the company will renovate the tower, give it a new facade and add 300,000 square feet near the base.

Sounds like the other plan would make the situation worse.
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  #27  
Old Posted May 1, 2018, 9:58 PM
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It will be interesting to see how Two Penn does with a reclad
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  #28  
Old Posted May 1, 2018, 10:59 PM
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What a boner killer
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  #29  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 12:22 AM
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So much potential, yet its the area that seems to be a massive nightmare to develop.

IF there is area that really needs a revamp and demo, its this one.
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  #30  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 2:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
So much potential, yet its the area that seems to be a massive nightmare to develop.

IF there is area that really needs a revamp and demo, its this one.
^^ Meh. The area itself really isn't that bad, other than the urban-development follies of MSG / 1 Penn Plaza / 2 Penn Plaza. Otherwise the area is well developed and fairly pleasant - it just needs some good gentrification.
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  #31  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 3:38 AM
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^ It's bad considering what and where it is. We're talking Penn Station, the top commuter transit hub in the country. It should be as developed as the area around Grand Central. Instead, we have parking lots, open and enclosed around the area, many buildings that have seen better days, and lowrise retail strips. It should be developing as much as Hudson Yards is.

The thing with Vornado is, they can never make up their mind about anything. First they're building 15 Penn. Then they're not. Then they're building it again. And then again, maybe not. There was the Penn East tower, with a modified base of 1 Penn. Then that was scrapped. Who knows what they will do with their holdings in the area. The plan to open Penn Station to more daylight was exciting enough, but now that may go the way of everything else Vornado has touched in the area. Meanwhile, Related, Brookfield, and Tishman are moving right along, in an area further removed from transit. You won't find a better location for a tower than the Hotel Penn Site, or Vornado's other holdings in the area.


We'll see what becomes of this...



https://therealdeal.com/2018/05/01/v...self-up-again/

Quote:
Steven Roth, CEO of the firm, said it’s possible Vornado will spin off a development company from its income-producing real estate. The rationale: Vornado has several expensive development projects in planning around Penn Station, and REIT investors tend to dislike the uncertainty associated with development.


Lot's of potential...


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  #32  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 11:12 PM
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Vornado picks Bjarke Ingels revamp of 2 Penn Plaza over demolition



Quote:
So much for replacing 2 Penn Plaza with a new ground-up building; Vornado Realty Trust’s CEO, Steven Roth, announced Tuesday that it was sticking to the planned Bjarke Ingels redesign of the building, instead of demolishing the existing structure. The Commercial Observer first reported the news, which Roth announced on Vornado’s first quarter earnings call, yesterday.

Though the 2 Penn Plaza revamp is at least two years away, Roth indicated that a complete demolition of the existing structure didn’t seem feasible, and that the Bjarke Ingels design was the best way to move forward.

The revamp plan would add nearly 300,000 square feet of space to the existing building, and make the floor plates on the lower floors more appealing to future tenants. One of the notable features of the Ingels redesign was the flowing, glass skirt-like structure that would be located over the entrance to the building. Other aspects of this revamp include adding a floor-to-ceiling glass facade, redoing the interiors, and upgrading the mechanical systems in the building.
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  #33  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 11:42 PM
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So what does it ultimately mean for Penn Station? Nothing continuing the present status should be considered... we cannot have an underground, lightless, lifeless maze where so many people come into and leave the city. We'll have Moynihan Station for a more than good enough facsimile of the past with Penn Station, though even that fine building can't do the scale of majestic grandeur that was the old Penn Station. Hopefully we can have a better experience than scurrying out like rats a dour, dank underground.
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  #34  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 12:03 AM
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I cannot articulate just how much I dislike that BIG design. Ridiculous.
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  #35  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 5:26 AM
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Originally Posted by citybooster View Post
So what does it ultimately mean for Penn Station?
The Cuomo plan, which includes removing the theater at MSG for a new entrance on 8th Avenue is still moving forward, but Vornado had a greater plan here for the 7th Avenue side. And there is still the matter of the MSG air rights that have to go somewhere.
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  #36  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 5:47 AM
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Thanks... even if this is a disappointment from what could have been, still much better than what we have now. Hopefully somehow we can get MSG out of there altogether, though the Dolans will pull no stops trying to make permanent their sense of entitlement.
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  #37  
Old Posted May 5, 2018, 3:51 AM
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Don't know when we will get the details of Cuomo's plan released, but he likes to make a big deal about things, so we will get the details sooner rather than later I think. Whatever the plan, improvement of Penn is a must, and a key to that is the area directly around and beneath 2 Penn.
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  #38  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 3:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
I cannot articulate just how much I dislike that BIG design. Ridiculous.
That scheme is bound to join the larger list of stalled old plans that NYGuy posted. Why on earth would Vornado pay for such a massive glass and steel canopy over 2-3 full city blocks, to cover circulation space for a train station they don't own? Would you? It's a pretty catchy idea, but I can't imagine how you'd actually build it.
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  #39  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 7:23 PM
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BIG design = Marilyn Monroe over the subway grate. If Marilyn was stockier lol.

I don't know if I like it or despise it yet.
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  #40  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 8:05 PM
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This popped up on a google search. ditch the skirt, keep the parapet and i'm satisfied. Not that i'm the one that needs to be satisfied...

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