HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > Proposals


    15 Penn Plaza in the SkyscraperPage Database

Building Data Page   • Comparison Diagram   • New York Skyscraper Diagram

Map Location
New York Projects & Construction Forum

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1341  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 2:21 PM
rgarri4's Avatar
rgarri4 rgarri4 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 431
So I guess in Architecture school these days they teach students to build whatever the smart developer wants regardless if it looks like shit?
__________________
Renderings, Animations, VR
https://vizfire.net/
My 3d model of Chicago:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...wpost&t=230331
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1342  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 4:02 PM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
N, N-Dimethyltryptamine
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Jersey - Somerset County
Posts: 29,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgarri4 View Post
So I guess in Architecture school these days they teach students to build whatever the smart developer wants regardless if it looks like shit?
Sadly thats the real world. Developers reign supreme. The architect is the tool, but the developer is the one holding the tool.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1343  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 6:12 PM
JMKeynes's Avatar
JMKeynes JMKeynes is online now
In the long run...
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SW3
Posts: 1,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
Sadly thats the real world. Developers reign supreme. The architect is the tool, but the developer is the one holding the tool.
I highly doubt that this will rise any time soon. The area is a toilet.
__________________
"Men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1344  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 7:10 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 41,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
I highly doubt that this will rise any time soon. The area is a toilet.
That's ridiculous, but it wouldn't matter anyway. Look at where the towers just over in the Hudson Yards are rising, and with one, lone subway line. This will rise when Vornado secures an anchor tenant.
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1345  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 7:47 PM
Zapatan's Avatar
Zapatan Zapatan is offline
Life enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Barcelona, NYC, California
Posts: 4,004
I hope it doesn't, this thing makes Tower Fifth look like a work of art

I don't want a 1,400 foot pile of garbage anywhere in NYC, much less a few blocks from Empire State
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1346  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 9:50 PM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
N, N-Dimethyltryptamine
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Jersey - Somerset County
Posts: 29,009
I wonder if IBM would consider. Would be a perfect opportunity. Often transit locations are very important, and this is at the epicenter of it all. A commitment or signed agreement within a year until their current leases expire would be ideal, allowing the tower to rise and ready right around when the leases expire. Say 2022/2023.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1347  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 2:23 PM
toddguy toddguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Amanda Burden is probably recovering in her hospital room after viewing the renderings... Along with Gale Brewer.

But as far as I recall, the revised design has already been approved. I do believe though that Vornado has used its last permit renewal.



__




But I don't even think the design overall is terrible. It's just in the wrong location, is more bulky than you would like that close to the ESB, and the worst part about it is the top. Make it look like New York. Even the Penn East tower gives us a little flair.



Quote:
Amanda Burden is probably recovering in her hospital room after viewing the renderings... Along with Gale Brewer.
This may be the best thing about this proposal-Burden is still unforgiven for the chop to Verre.

And yes it is in the wrong location for such a box, too bulky at the top with no taper. It is like the Twenty First Century version of the(originally)Pan Am building-an out of scale giant box.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1348  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 2:30 PM
toddguy toddguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
I hope it doesn't, this thing makes Tower Fifth look like a work of art

I don't want a 1,400 foot pile of garbage anywhere in NYC, much less a few blocks from Empire State
The idea of these two towers rising it just depressing. If they could just rework the top of Tower Fifth and taper this a bit with some sort of spire it would be so much better.

If they did taper this out a bit could it go higher? The highest parts don't have to be as large as they are for the few lords and not the many worker serfs, right?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1349  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 2:51 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is online now
Leftist Correctist
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 6,271
Just horrible. In 2039 the loose stack of slabs trend will look about as timeless as Michael Graves does in 2019. Barf.
__________________
Trumpism is the road to ruin
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1350  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 12:33 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 41,151
https://nypost.com/2019/11/11/gloomy...any-time-soon/

Gloomy Hotel Pennsylvania isn’t getting replaced any time soon


By Steve Cuozzo
November 11, 2019


Quote:
Sorry to all you lovers of super-tall towers: Dreams of a mega-skyscraper to replace the gloomy Hotel Pennsylvania will have to wait at least a few more years.

Vornado Realty Trust — which owns so much property in the Penn Station area that it seems like a wholly owned subsidiary of the publicly traded giant — has raised expectations more than once that it would replace the hotel with a spectacular new office tower.

But Vornado President Michael J. Franco has put the kibosh on it for now. Asked by Sandler O’Neill analyst Alexander Goldfarb in a conference call about Vornado’s plan to raze what he called the “Forever Hotel Pennsylvania” for a new tower, Franco said, “The time is not here yet.”


Any new development at the site would have to come after Vornado’ s planned redevelopments of PENN1 and PENN2, the office towers formerly known as One and Two Penn Plaza, Franco said. “We’re going to finish developing PENN1 and PENN2” first, he said. Those projects are just getting under way.
Quote:
The halt button for the Hotel Pennsylvania project at 401 Seventh Ave. came as a surprise after a year of teasing by Vornado.

In October 2018, my colleague Lois Weiss reported that Vornado had “quietly slipped” a rendering of an exotic design by Rafael Viñoly for a proposed 2.8-million-square-foot cloud buster into an investors’ presentation.
Quote:
Vornado apparently sees no short-term prospect for luring a different tenant to pay astronomical rent at what would surely be one of the most expensive towers ever built.

Vornado’s plans for the Pennsylvania site are the commercial real estate scene’s longest waiting came. The REIT bought the hotel in 1997 to be the centerpiece of its planned new vision for the Penn Station area. Vornado has used the name 15 Penn Plaza for the hotel-site tower.

Years ago, Vornado chairman and CEO Steven Roth touted a different super-tall but less sexy new tower, perhaps to serve as a new home for Merrill Lynch. That dream died after the financial crisis.
Quote:
But lest anyone doubt Roth’s determination to get the project done eventually, it’s worth remembering his history with the former Alexander’s department store site.

Roth was dubbed the “Hamlet of Lexington Avenue” for his seeming indecision over what to do with the location.

Vornado bought Alexander’s in 1991, demolished the store in 1998, and held onto the empty crater until Bloomberg signed on as anchor tenant in what’s now a highly successful office and residential tower.

I remember the Alexanders saga, and the 900 footer that was proposed there.
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1351  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 12:45 PM
citybooster citybooster is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 280
At the very least, this pause for the next few years as Penn 1 and 2 are renovated hopefully will serve to fade Vornado's interest in the monstrosity that is the current vision for the tower... something in this critical location bridging the Hudson Yards and Midtown West should be an out and out classic, not a garish, horribly crowned tech nerd- inspired eyesore of a disaster. Companies can want what they want, but Vornado can't lay an egg here. This could be a blessing... but would they do ANYTHING to renovate the current (and fairly miserable) Hotel Pennsylvania in the meantime? or just leave as is, still kinda miserable?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1352  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 12:50 PM
JMKeynes's Avatar
JMKeynes JMKeynes is online now
In the long run...
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SW3
Posts: 1,322
I’ve been saying that this won’t happen for a long time. The area is disgusting. Vornado should focus on acquiring the entire block to the north of the site and redevelop it into a hotel. The current mish mash of jalopy buildings on that block is disgusting.
__________________
"Men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1353  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 2:09 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 41,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
I’ve been saying that this won’t happen for a long time. The area is disgusting.
That's not even true and not the reason the tower hasn't been built. 15 Penn Plaza was the first of the panned new towers on the west side to land a tenant, and that was a decade ago when the area was in even worse shape than it is now. If not for the financial crisis, the hotel would have been demolished, and 15 Penn Plaza would have been built already. It's Vornado's decision to actively pursue the redevelopment (its been off and on) that's taking time. And with the hotel still in operation, they can do that.




https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-t...-call-tra.aspx

Vornado Realty Trust (VNO) Q3 2019 Earnings Call Transcript
VNO earnings call for the period ending September 30, 2019.




Nov 7, 2019


Quote:
Alexander Goldfarb -- Sandler O'Neill -- Analyst

Hey, good morning. So two questions. First, you guys obviously talked a lot about the big tech demand this year that surprised the market. And at the same time, slug is busy contemplating redeveloping 1 Madison. You guys have the Farley, but at the same time, you have the Forever Hotel Pennsylvania. So are there -- is there sufficient demand in the market where you guys would start to, I don't know, if it dusts off the old plans, maybe reconceive, but where that project starts to be something that may actually come to fruition given the tech demand in the city and its location?

Michael J. Franco -- President

Good morning, Alex. Look, we are unbelievably excited about the Hotel Pennsy. We think that that site, we are done transforming Seventh Avenue with PENN1 and PENN2. We think it's going to be the development site from the city. So, but the time is not here yet. We're going to finish developing PENN1 and PENN2. And we think that follows that after the fact. So you're guesstimating what demand is going to look like in two years, three years, four years knowing and it can effectively do that, but we think it's going and the plan we have for that is going to be unique. We think that will appeal to all sorts of tenants tech or [Technical Issues]
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1354  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 9:37 PM
uaarkson's Avatar
uaarkson uaarkson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Back in Flint
Posts: 1,940
Honestly, this type of architecture is dystopian to me. It is completely disconnected from the city, in every way. The giant Facebook 'F' at the base is really the turd cherry on top of the shit sundae.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1355  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 9:52 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is online now
Leftist Correctist
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 6,271
Can't disagree
__________________
Trumpism is the road to ruin
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1356  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 12:49 AM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 41,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by uaarkson View Post
Honestly, this type of architecture is dystopian to me. It is completely disconnected from the city, in every way. The giant Facebook 'F' at the base is really the turd cherry on top of the shit sundae.
I guess it's good news to you than that Facebook won't be moving to this tower. The rest...
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1357  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2019, 5:11 AM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 41,151
I stayed at this hotel last year (not my choice) and it was even more horrible than I thought it would be. As long as it is still open, it's good that at least some work will be done on it.


https://nypost.com/2019/11/18/hotel-...f-guest-rooms/

Hotel Pennsylvania undergoing full redesign of guest rooms

By Steve Cuozzo
November 18, 2019


Quote:
The forever-doomed, but still-standing Hotel Pennsylvania is undergoing a top-to-bottom redesign of its guest rooms to keep it competitive in an AirBNB-challenged hotel market.

Whoa, you say — isn’t owner Vornado planning to knock the old relic down to make room for a spectacular office skyscraper?

Yes, for sure — it’s just a matter of when. But until the day comes, the Pennsylvania needs to remain viable as a huge, budget-priced inn.


The city’s only hotel with working pay telephones in the lobby isn’t getting a full-on Cinderella treatment. But faded guest rooms by the hundreds are getting a “lighter, contemporary palette of white and pale beige, warmed by wood furnishings with sleek modern lines,” as well as new carpeting and “rejuvenated” bathrooms with original subway-style tiles, its reps said.
Quote:
We reported last week that publicly traded Vornado wasn’t ready yet to demolish the property, which it’s owned for 20 years. Company president Michael Franco told analysts, “The time is not here yet.”

When we referred to the Pennsylvania as “gloomy,” its publicists informed us that a “metamorphosis” was taking place behind the weathered brick facade.

It needed spiffing up to compete. Cushman & Wakefield hotel specialist Tom McConnell had no data specifically for the Pennsylvania. But, citing industry tracker Smith Travel Resources (STR), he said occupancy citywide was down by 1.2 percentage points over last year. Average room rates were down 2.3 percent and RevPAR — the industry benchmark of revenue per available room — was off 3.6 percent.

The dips were mainly due to more rooms on the market, a figure that’s 40 percent higher than just 10 years ago, he said.

The budget-priced Pennsylvania is also vulnerable to AirBNB. Its posted rates are mostly under $200 and nightly rates are quoted under $100 on the hotel’s Web site, including in the renovated “Penn Plaza” category.
Quote:
Vornado CEO Steven Roth long encouraged the idea that the property wasn’t long for the world by showing prospective office tenants several different images of what a new tower would look like — one as recently as last summer.

But for now, the Pennsylvania remains the city’s fourth-largest hotel with 1.4 million square feet, 55,000-square-foot floor plates and 1,700 guest rooms.

Few New Yorkers know much about it. “It’s always kind of had identity issues,” McConnell deadpanned.

So we couldn’t resist when the hotel’s publicists invited us to check it out. While the renovated rooms are a big improvement over those yet to be redesigned, the hotel remains an eerie time warp — especially its sprawling lobby.

Vornado nicely restored it after former owner Abe Hirschfeld covered the marble lobby floor with a miserable carpet. “We were surprised to find what was under it,” Vornado Hotels vice-president Eugene Nicotra told us.

But it has no cafes or stores other than a few small shops at the fringes. The last restaurant, the Statler Grill, closed last year. Nicotra said prospective retail and food tenants have looked at various lobby locations and he hoped a deal would be struck.

Vestiges of the past are everywhere. There is a ghost sign for a vanished coffee shop and a 12th-floor “pantry” display of early 20th-century laundry devices. Some rooms have original “valet doors” installed in 1919 through which guests could leave clothes to be cleaned.

Nostalgists might want to see them now while they still can.
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1358  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2019, 6:02 PM
manchester united manchester united is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
That's not even true and not the reason the tower hasn't been built. 15 Penn Plaza was the first of the panned new towers on the west side to land a tenant, and that was a decade ago when the area was in even worse shape than it is now. If not for the financial crisis, the hotel would have been demolished, and 15 Penn Plaza would have been built already. It's Vornado's decision to actively pursue the redevelopment (its been off and on) that's taking time. And with the hotel still in operation, they can do that.




https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-t...-call-tra.aspx

Vornado Realty Trust (VNO) Q3 2019 Earnings Call Transcript
VNO earnings call for the period ending September 30, 2019.




Nov 7, 2019
Does mean this also a postponement of a reopen of the Hilton passageway?
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > Proposals
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:54 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.