Can Dirty Sixth Be Cleaned Up?

[chinchaaa]

Originally Posted by We vs us

So much of Dirty 6th's problems can be attributed to the ARCH; I'm amazed it doesn't publicly get called out more. If you spend time in the area regularly, you can see the effect it has on the surrounding blocks. Lots of dead space and vacant storefronts in a kind of moat around that single building.

And of course all the folks who are part of the ARCH universe range far and wide, find all the secret spots (certain alleys, certain corners, certain doorways, certain portions of Waller Creek) to meet and hang out and do what they do. And I'm not suggesting these are folks who are going to be the ones getting into the gang fights or mass shootings, but what's flowing from the ARCH keeps the whole district (not just 6th) isolated from development and essentially barren aside from some very specific uses at specific times of day.

If you're not downtown much, I can't emphasize enough how closed the ecosystem's become, and how it reinforces itself -- and keeps other more diverse offerings out.

But nothing can change until the ARCH changes. And I understand that there're a lot of reasons why that won't happen under the current circumstance, but if I were the CC and Adler, I'd stop at nothing to get that thing relocated, ASAP.

I don't really think it's that simple.

For one, the ARCH was placed there because that's where the homeless population existed in the city. They will probably continue to exist in that area, even if the ARCH moves. Not to mention, the NIMBYs will be out in full force trying to stop a next-gen ARCH from being in their neighborhood.

2, the main reason dirty 6th is a dump is because the bars only cater to college kids, tourists, etc. that want to get drunk and run amuck. How do you plan to address that? Last time I checked, it hasn't really been homeless people shooting people or driving cars over dozens of people.

[drummer]

Originally Posted by chinchaaa

I don't really think it's that simple.

For one, the ARCH was placed there because that's where the homeless population existed in the city. They will probably continue to exist in that area, even if the ARCH moves. Not to mention, the NIMBYs will be out in full force trying to stop a next-gen ARCH from being in their neighborhood.

2, the main reason dirty 6th is a dump is because the bars only cater to college kids, tourists, etc. that want to get drunk and run amuck. How do you plan to address that? Last time I checked, it hasn't really been homeless people shooting people or driving cars over dozens of people.

That's already happening in a way with the Candlewood Suites issue in the Austin portion of Williamson County near Lakeline Mall.

[zrx299]

Originally Posted by chinchaaa

2, the main reason dirty 6th is a dump is because the bars only cater to college kids, tourists, etc. that want to get drunk and run amuck. How do you plan to address that? Last time I checked, it hasn't really been homeless people shooting people or driving cars over dozens of people.

West 6th and Rainey cater to the exact same crowds you mentioned, yet don't have near as many issues.

[Geckos_Rule]

Originally Posted by zrx299

West 6th and Rainey cater to the exact same crowds you mentioned, yet don't have near as many issues.

I'm not sure how it's changed in the last 3-4 years, but at least speaking about how it was 2012-2017: They cater to slightly different crowds. When I turned 21, I (and a large number of my peers) felt like we were too old to be going to Dirty Sixth anymore. By the time I was a senior in college and 21-22 years old, I didn't know anyone still going to Dirty Sixth unless they were younger than me by at least a year or two.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar thing now.

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by zrx299

West 6th and Rainey cater to the exact same crowds you mentioned, yet don't have near as many issues.

West 6th and Rainey cater to an older demographic with more money. Dirty 6th is generally about getting drunk as quickly and cheaply as possible. I mean, on Sundays some of these places run .25 well drinks.

Most people "graduate" from dirty 6th to the other entertainment districts when they hit their mid 20s.

[StoOgE]

Another thing that changed with Dirty 6th in recent years is Red River sort of died as a music venue street. A lot of the places that used to bring in a different crowd are largely gone.

You used to have the rockabilly/punk/scene kid crowd that would be at Emo's, Casino El Camino, Jackalope, Headhunters, etc. Once those venues started moving (and Longbranch/Scoot in started taking some of those customers) you saw the far East end of Dirty 6th change radically.

Casino is still largely the same, but Jackalope went from a dive bar that catered to an older clientele into a shot bar.

Even West 6th 15 years ago was an enclave with a "few" bars (the weird russian themed one, star bar) that has exploded into a full fledged entertainment district. Rainey didn't exist and the East side is no longer hipster bars but upscale bars for a slightly older crowd and now Holly/Govalle are night life hotspots.

A lot of what happened to Dirty 6th is that Austin got bigger and there was more self-segregation away from the perception of dirty 6th as a gross place filled with crappy dance clubs and puking college kids and its sort of slowly turned dirty 6th into a parody of itself.

[chinchaaa]

Originally Posted by zrx299

West 6th and Rainey cater to the exact same crowds you mentioned, yet don't have near as many issues.

not even close

[lonewolf]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

Another thing that changed with Dirty 6th in recent years is Red River sort of died as a music venue street. A lot of the places that used to bring in a different crowd are largely gone.

You used to have the rockabilly/punk/scene kid crowd that would be at Emo's, Casino El Camino, Jackalope, Headhunters, etc. Once those venues started moving (and Longbranch/Scoot in started taking some of those customers) you saw the far East end of Dirty 6th change radically.

Casino is still largely the same, but Jackalope went from a dive bar that catered to an older clientele into a shot bar.

Even West 6th 15 years ago was an enclave with a "few" bars (the weird russian themed one, star bar) that has exploded into a full fledged entertainment district. Rainey didn't exist and the East side is no longer hipster bars but upscale bars for a slightly older crowd and now Holly/Govalle are night life hotspots.

A lot of what happened to Dirty 6th is that Austin got bigger and there was more self-segregation away from the perception of dirty 6th as a gross place filled with crappy dance clubs and puking college kids and its sort of slowly turned dirty 6th into a parody of itself.

https://library.municode.com/tx/aust...OAMSO#TOPTITLE

sound ordinance changed that area overnight

[We vs us]

Some additional details came out late last week about some of Stream's intentions for their properties. In addition to the hospitality/office uses that they've already (broadly) proposed, they also want to launch/relaunch a handful of music venues, too.

Stream reveals details of six possible new Sixth Street music venues
WEDNESDAY, JUNE 29, 2022 BY CHAD SWIATECKI

Stream Realty Partners is eyeing the possibility of turning at least six of its properties on East Sixth Street into music venues, including a plan to convert the former Buffalo Billiards space into a daytime food hall with music in the evenings.

The partial reveals came Friday at a special meeting of the Music Commission where Caitlyn Ryan, vice president of the Dallas-based company, discussed the future of the entertainment district and some of the plans for the 30-plus properties it has acquired.

While reviewing Stream’s holdings and its push to increase building heights and conduct select demolition work on some sites to create office space and hotel uses, Ryan offered some details about what’s in store for her often-stated goal of making live music a significant component of the area’s revitalization. The Buffalo Billiards space at 201 E. Sixth may be renamed the Missouri House as a nod to its original use as a boarding house in the late 1800s.

There are ongoing talks with the possible operator of three restaurant/music venue spaces in and around the former Easy Tiger location, as well as a high likelihood of a music venue opening in the former Dirty Dog space. On the 500 block of East Sixth, Ryan said there’s a good chance of a below-ground music space opening, and the longtime Austin resident said, “My goal is eventually to bring Emo’s, in any way, shape or form, back to this area because this is where they started.”

Ryan said the declining presence of music venues in the district – due in part to rising rents – was one of the main reasons she and other Stream partners began investigating opportunities on Sixth Street in the years before the Covid-19 pandemic.

“We thought, why is Sixth Street remaining as it is and why aren’t we seeing more live music there? In the last 10 years we’ve lost a huge part of the music community there,” she said. “We felt like it would break our heart if we saw somebody… come in here and turn these structures into everyday retail like Sephora or anything else that wasn’t an iconic piece of Austin’s history.”

https://www.austinmonitor.com/storie...-music-venues/

[gillynova]

Has anyone been to Rainey lately? I hear it's been a whole different vibe since Bungalow and Container bar closed.

I'm usually on West or East at this point

[migol24]

Originally Posted by gillynova

Has anyone been to Rainey lately? I hear it's been a whole different vibe since Bungalow and Container bar closed.

I'm usually on West or East at this point

Foot traffic has mostly moved to the southern part. There's a new bar that's opened up next to Unbarlievable. I forget the name but it's Latin themed, I think. However, there are still two bars on the corner of Rainey and Driscoll. But it's mostly dead around there. In general, it's still very busy. And congestion is a lot worse.

[gillynova]

Originally Posted by migol24

Foot traffic has mostly moved to the southern part. There's a new bar that's opened up next to Unbarlievable. I forget the name but it's Latin themed, I think. However, there are still two bars on the corner of Rainey and Driscoll. But it's mostly dead around there. In general, it's still very busy. And congestion is a lot worse.

Ah true! I've seen some of my friends go there and tag Miami as the location lmaoooo. I gotta check it out once this summer

[rayfes]

Molotov was the west 6th street Russian / East European (sorry I don't know which) bar.

Cantina 512 is the place on Rainey. It's not my kind of place but I like the front area setup and street interaction.

Went to Shakespeare's on Dirty 6th recently and had a nice time but it was daytime. Walked that area at night while coming back from the east side and there was a guy passed out on the sidewalk with pants pulled down. Ugh.

Star Bar is being renovated inside.

I hope Dirty 6th can be improved. I don't want it to be too clean but it's in bad shape right now. We have several entertainment districts now along with many pocket areas closer to neighborhoods so a lot of residents don't bother to come downtown.

[gillynova]

Buford's is still the main spot in West in my opinion. Ranch is a close 2nd

Lots of Tiktokers interviews randoms in Dirty 6th still

[Werdman89]

Among a number of great zoning changes from last week's City Council meeting, Dirty 6th's height limit was raised from 45 ft to 140 feet.
https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...-to-dirty-6th/

[urbancore]

Originally Posted by Werdman89

Among a number of great zoning changes from last week's City Council meeting, Dirty 6th's height limit was raised from 45 ft to 140 feet.
https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...-to-dirty-6th/

Were changes actually made to the codes/ordinances? As I understand it, last week the council passed “resolutions”. I’ve not taken the time to dive into this, but if it’s true, resolutions are often social platitudes.

I’ll check in with my architect tomorrow. She’s sat on the committees and round table discussions with the city for decades involving COA codes, and a wealth of knowledge.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by urbancore

Were changes actually made to the codes/ordinances? As I understand it, last week the council passed “resolutions”. I’ve not taken the time to dive into this, but if it’s true, resolutions are often social platitudes.

I’ll check in with my architect tomorrow. She’s sat on the committees and round table discussions with the city for decades involving COA codes, and a wealth of knowledge.

From what I understood, this enables the city manager to do the technical writing necessary to make this into law. Once that's done, the city council will vote to pass the actual written ordinances.

[urbancore]

Originally Posted by paul78701

From what I understood, this enables the city manager to do the technical writing necessary to make this into law. Once that's done, the city council will vote to pass the actual written ordinances.

This will give the NIMBY's time to organize, make yard signs...lobby the council to "discuss this more", insist for more time to get the citizens involved...not to mention, I wouldn't be surprised if staff drags this out and/or sabotages it.

Was anything mentioned about increasing the max FAR (floor to area), increasing the building tent height to more than 32' or adjusting the tree ordinances? 40% FAR of a 2500 sqft lot is 1000 sqft, which will have to be divided up over 2 maybe 2.5 floors (if you include a habitable attic). That floor plate isn't desirable/workable for most buyers especially families. It could possibly work for singles or dinks, but at what price? Certainly not a current prices or even 80% of current prices.

We need to increase the FAR to 50% at least. Include "tree remediation". And raise the max height to 35' min. I think those changes will allow us to only increase the IC (impervious cover)to 50-55% from its current 45%.

All of this from an optimist.

[JAM]

It only takes one encounter with a crazed drug addict or some guy not on his meds to make you want to stay away from an area like Dirty 6th, the downtown Library, etc. Unfortunately its not just one encounter, occurs weekly, sometimes daily. Gonna have to fix that first, to get the locals to come around.

[urbancore]

Originally Posted by JAM

It only takes one encounter with a crazed drug addict or some guy not on his meds to make you want to stay away from an area like Dirty 6th, the downtown Library, etc. Unfortunately its not just one encounter, occurs weekly, sometimes daily. Gonna have to fix that first, to get the locals to come around.

I've been going to bars listening to music since I was a freshman in 87. Dirty 6th has ALWAYS been rough. It's never been clean. There are more homeless now, but the threat of violence has been around since I've been here. I don't see a way to fix it. I've personally known/seen groups of young men basically looking to score or to fight. They will sometimes come in from small towns around Austin, just to "get into something". Dime Box is boring......Dirty Six ain't.