How Austin Became One of the Least Affordable Cities in America

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by edale

I don't get the hype over Austin. It's fine but I don't see why it's such a hot spot these days. Even with all the crazy downtown construction, it felt small and suburban (quasi rural, actually) to me. You get like 5 mins south of downtown and you're in neighborhoods like this without sidewalks or any semblance of density:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.2541...7i16384!8i8192

There were a couple of cool commercial nodes, but a lot of the major commercial corridors were basically suburban stroads. Texas Nashville.

Exactly. Many Nashville neighborhoods lack sidewalks, curbs, street lights, or storm sewers - even after being scraped and almost entirely rebuilt in the 2010s thanks to their adoption of a form-based code that permitted two or even four "tall-skinny" houses in place of a single 1940 bungalow.

[jmecklenborg]

I mean, what's so frustrating about this from the perspective of a Ohio River/Great Lakes native, that we have had endless fights in our cities over the past 40-50 years over "basic services", yet there's almost no such thing as a prewar residential street in these cities that lacks sidewalks, street lights, curbs, and storm sewers. Even the cities with lousy bus systems in the north still have better bus systems than Austin or Nashville.

Yet somehow these cities that can't provide even a base level of 20th century normalcies are eating the legacy cities' lunches in the 21st.

[Crawford]

I don't get it either, but it's clear that Austin and Nashville are the "it" cities in the U.S. right now.

They really are similar metros, in most respects. Insane growth and hype, almost comically underdeveloped infrastructure relative to population, similar housing typologies, similar topography, similar "celebrity but not coastal party town" self-imagery.

It's quite obvious that the things urbanists obsess over are totally irrelevant to the bulk of Americans. Sidewalks, urban form and functional transit are so last century. Even basic first world markers like storm sewers and street lighting are apparently irrelevant.

[C.]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Exactly. Many Nashville neighborhoods lack sidewalks, curbs, street lights, or storm sewers - even after being scraped and almost entirely rebuilt in the 2010s thanks to their adoption of a form-based code that permitted two or even four "tall-skinny" houses in place of a single 1940 bungalow.

Sounds interesting - do you have some Google Streetview examples?

[JManc]

Originally Posted by edale

I don't get the hype over Austin. It's fine but I don't see why it's such a hot spot these days.

Austin has always been attractive to newcomers because of it's eclectic college town vibe. You also have the stability of the state government not to mention UT which is largely responsible for the area being a major tech hub. Plus, out of the major Texas cities, it has the most palatable climate and natural setting. No one is moving to Austin from the Midwest or Northeast expecting the same urban fabric they left behind. I didn't expect Upstate NY when I moved to Houston.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by C.

Sounds interesting - do you have some Google Streetview examples?

Sure. "The Nations" is probably the most egregious example. Pretty much everything you see here has been built since 2015 in place of an older house:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Th...!4d-86.8490873

Also, they installed giant metal utility poles right through the neighborhood, as if the place is under threat of a Cat 5 hurricane strike:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1607...7i16384!8i8192

People are paying huge money for the privilege of living in this half-ass neighborhood.

[Crawford]

If you move somewhere like Nashville, why even bother with these areas? Why not just roll with it, and get a McMansion in the woods or something? Lots of rich, leafy areas south of downtown.

I love urbanity and in-town living but don't understand the appeal of paying near seven-figures for a neighborhood of shotgun homes and open sewer drains.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by JManc

Austin has always been attractive to newcomers because of it's eclectic college town vibe. You also have the stability of the state government not to mention UT which is largely responsible for the area being a major tech hub. Plus, out of the major Texas cities, it has the most palatable climate and natural setting. No one is moving to Austin from the Midwest or Northeast expecting the same urban fabric they left behind. I didn't expect Upstate NY when I moved to Houston.

Seems about right. As a note, just about any large capital city with a large university is a popular relocation and business hub right now, regardless of where they are located. Think Columbus and Des Moines in the midwest, and even Madison to a point even though it is quite small.

[llamaorama]

I think the lack of services in expensive gentrifying old areas of Austin and Nashville is an outlier. Plus these aren’t huge neighborhoods, how many total people have moved into these teardown and replace townhouses on streets with culverts next to warehouses? Maybe this is like the cryptocurrency of real estate- there’s a running fad and combined with a small percentage of the population being excessively loaded with money you get frivolous things like this?

People in Georgetown(the Texas one) and Round Rock do value infrastructure and services. Here in the DFW there seems to be a pretty high standard for these things.

[ATXboom]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

I mean, what's so frustrating about this from the perspective of a Ohio River/Great Lakes native, that we have had endless fights in our cities over the past 40-50 years over "basic services". There's almost no such thing as a prewar residential street in these cities that lacks sidewalks, street lights, curbs, and storm sewers. Even the cities with lousy bus systems in the north still have better bus systems than Austin or Nashville.

Yet somehow these cities that can't provide even a base level of 20th century normalcies are eating the legacy cities' lunches in the 21st.

I left ohio for Austin.... Austin and NV have infinitely larger foodie scenes, entertainment districts and better jobs / larger job pools. It's that simple. That's the stuff that actually moves the needle with most people. Throw in some event marketing and it catches cultural fire that then spreads to actual economy and job relocations. Why does it happen... IMO there are more entrepenurial people in these regions that make those things happen. When I go back to Ohio to visit family it seems everyone is still trying to hold onto some past that will never return.... Glory days. Anywhoo these are the cities of the future, not the past. The best amenities will be there if not now eventually.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by DCReid

Think Columbus and Des Moines in the midwest, and even Madison to a point even though it is quite small.

Des Moines and Madison are actually pretty damn similar in size these days.

and while Des Moines for sure has the superior skyline, little old Madison actually has one of the most densely populated downtown cores in the midwest.



City Proper:

Madison: 269,840
Des Moines: 214,133



Urban Area (2010):

Des Moines: 450,070
Madison: 401,661



MSA:

Des Moines: 709,466
Madison: 680,796



CSA:

Madison: 910,246
Des Moines: 890,322

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by ATXboom

When I go back to Ohio to visit family it seems everyone is still trying to hold onto some past that will never return.... Glory days.

Like cowboy hats and country music?

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by JManc

No one is moving to Austin from the Midwest or Northeast expecting the same urban fabric they left behind. I didn't expect Upstate NY when I moved to Houston.

I do think some people are, lol. It's dumb, I know, but some people move from the northeast expecting a higher level of urban amenity than they encounter when they get there.

[edale]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Like cowboy hats and country music?

[Sigaven]

Originally Posted by edale

I don't get the hype over Austin. It's fine but I don't see why it's such a hot spot these days. Even with all the crazy downtown construction, it felt small and suburban (quasi rural, actually) to me. You get like 5 mins south of downtown and you're in neighborhoods like this without sidewalks or any semblance of density:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.2541...7i16384!8i8192

There were a couple of cool commercial nodes, but a lot of the major commercial corridors were basically suburban stroads. Texas Nashville.

I live here and I don't get it either. The only interesting things here are the capitol, university, Town Lake and Barton Springs. Our arts amenities (museums, theater, etc) are basically nonexistent, no destination shopping downtown, very few great public spaces. I guess people love it for the same reason I do: for the laid back atmosphere, kayaking on the river through downtown, relatively young population, good nightlife and warm weather. Maybe this city only accidentally started becoming a big city precisely for the reason it's different from big cities.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Sigaven

I live here and I don't get it either. The only interesting things here are the capitol, university, Town Lake and Barton Springs. Our arts amenities (museums, theater, etc) are basically nonexistent, no destination shopping downtown, very few great public spaces. I guess people love it for the same reason I do: for the laid back atmosphere, kayaking on the river through downtown, relatively young population, good nightlife and warm weather. Maybe this city only accidentally started becoming a big city precisely for the reason it's different from big cities.

I think there's an echo chamber effect as well. The media has seized on the boom narrative for places like Austin and Nashville, but they rarely talk about the lack of infrastructure. The skyrocketing cost of living is probably as close to bad press as Austin has ever received.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by edale

I don't get the hype over Austin. It's fine but I don't see why it's such a hot spot these days. Even with all the crazy downtown construction, it felt small and suburban (quasi rural, actually) to me. You get like 5 mins south of downtown and you're in neighborhoods like this without sidewalks or any semblance of density:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.2541...7i16384!8i8192

There were a couple of cool commercial nodes, but a lot of the major commercial corridors were basically suburban stroads. Texas Nashville.

Texas infrastructure is lacking, yes, particularly with sidewalks. You will find, though, that Austin does comparatively better than everywhere but Dallas at sidewalk coverage.

Houston and San Antonio in particular are piss poor when it comes to sidewalk coverage. Fort Worth is middling.

To be honest, the lack of sidewalks throughout otherwise quasi-urban parts of Texas is very… Texan. These neighborhoods often have very low internal vehicular traffic anyway and walking on the street is relatively safe given the traffic and driving behavior in these areas. Also, roads that do reach a particular threshold of traffic almost always get upgraded to include sidewalks.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think there's an echo chamber effect as well. The media has seized on the boom narrative for places like Austin and Nashville, but they rarely talk about the lack of infrastructure. The skyrocketing cost of living is probably as close to bad press as Austin has ever received.

The mass media really is a gaslighter, isn’t he?

Hey! Everybody Austin is so amazing for x, y, z. Move there!

Hey! Everybody who moved there you are crushing the ability of the local government and capacity of developers to play catch up on infrastructure, zoning, and residential construction all while each is being both hamstrung by the feds and kneecapped by the state, too—and to add insult to self-inflicted injury it’s voting public (I.E. native residents) seem intent to bite off the city’s nose to spite their faces! The result is that the city is expensive, incomes are largely unequal and both depressed and declining for those not in tech, and homelessness and drugs are a resultant crisis in the context of an ever more violent and criminal culture at all levels of society. We are not only now no longer in a rat race for money, today social media has primed and pavlovian trained us all to be slaves in a race for social media notifications repeatedly rewarding and praising us for our filtered and sifted beauty. Ding ding ding! Ding.

*mouth waters*

We have a winner! And her name is San Antonio. Move there!

(Cycle repeats)

Whatever happened to being rewarded and praised for brains?

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think there's an echo chamber effect as well. The media has seized on the boom narrative for places like Austin and Nashville, but they rarely talk about the lack of infrastructure. The skyrocketing cost of living is probably as close to bad press as Austin has ever received.

But unfortunately for Austin, it is still cheap compared to California, so the waves of relocations and business growth will likely continue. I got the impression years ago that Austin was attracting people from all over the country, so it will be interesting to see if its attraction shifts mostly to the west coast and it starts to have outmigration to other cheaper areas, like the midwest (Columbus, Des Moines, Madison), southeast (Raleigh, Atlanta), and maybe even cities like OKC and Louisville. Nashville appears to be a new favorite - I don't recall people wanting to relocate there when I was early in my career in the 1980s and 1990s. Raleigh is also another up-and-coming capital city that is a favorite.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Like cowboy hats and country music?

I take it you probably never been to Texas. I've been here 25 years and only see cowboy hats worn when the Rodeo is going on which is about as 'country' as Taylor Swift these days. if there is country and western (mainly FW) it's tourism related.