Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW)

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Running point to point flights away from hubs is expensive and challenging for network carriers. Let's say they want to offer a YOW-SFO flight on an A321. They have to have the A321 fly YYZ-YOW and YOW-YYZ rotations to bookend the YOW-SFO roundtrip. This is regardless of whether they need the same capacity on that YYZ-YOW slot. And they have to do that for every non hub flight from Ottawa. It's complex and inefficient. Which is exactly why they flow pax through YYZ. A smaller airline with smaller airplanes hubbing here was the only way we were ever going to get more direct flights. I have doubts that AC will really fight back. They can still get a lot of long haul business through YYZ and YUL.

One other thing to consider is one of the key metrics that investors look at with publicly traded companies is profit margin. As a result, companies are wanting to keep it as high as possible, so any route that's profit margin is below average is at risk of being canceled, as it is lowering to company's overall profit margin (even if the route is profitable).

For that reason, I think AC would be happy to let Porter take over many of the direct flights out of YOW, as cancelling those routes will help AC increase its overall profit margin, by focusing on higher yielding routes.

[YOWhopeful]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

I've flown both types of configurations and I'll say there are pros and cons to both.

The pod is better for "privacy" if you're alone.

The pod is poor if you're travelling with someone and want to be together. The 2x config is better for this purpose and can allow for a working flight, etc.

The 2x config seats have a privacy screen to raise if you'd like.

Pods are better for aisle access, obviously. But, seat pitch on the 2x config is more than sufficient to allow passage of the nestled pax. In lie-flat config, though, it can be an issue if someone is sleeping and you need to pee. That's when you do your best mission impossible maneuvering.

The angled pod can make you feel discomfort at certain times. Given it's not straight-forward facing, the forces acting upon your body during periods of acceleration or braking are angled and unusual. This is temporary and can affect people differently. It is definitely noticeable for me but not a huge bother. Others I know really hate it.

Edit: I see now the AF config is also slightly angled so that might be a wash. My experiences in this config have been on other airlines where seats are straight-forward facing.

I have had experience with both configurations and although the 2-2-2 is not my preferred business class seat configuration, I will ALWAYS favour a direct flight to Europe from Ottawa over one with a connection in Montreal or Toronto. Air France has my business. Also I have flying blue Gold status which is much easier to obtain than any higher tier status on Air Canada and allows you access to all Skyteam lounges. Granted YOW does not have one but perhaps I will be given access to the Aspire lounge.

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by MountainView

WELL... speak it into existence:



AC 357/358 YOW-YEG - which is the old/existing YOW-YYC later afternoon and evening departures flight number

Yep & Air Canada is operating Edmonton YEG to Ottawa YOW similarly as it was in S22 & with 1x daily service from May 1 - October 28 2023 operated by the Airbus A220-300 plane ✈️.

Good news Flair Airlines gets some competition on YEG- YOW route by AC this Spring & Summer again✅!!

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

I've flown both types of configurations and I'll say there are pros and cons to both.

The pod is better for "privacy" if you're alone.

The pod is poor if you're travelling with someone and want to be together. The 2x config is better for this purpose and can allow for a working flight, etc.

The 2x config seats have a privacy screen to raise if you'd like.

Pods are better for aisle access, obviously. But, seat pitch on the 2x config is more than sufficient to allow passage of the nestled pax. In lie-flat config, though, it can be an issue if someone is sleeping and you need to pee. That's when you do your best mission impossible maneuvering.

The angled pod can make you feel discomfort at certain times. Given it's not straight-forward facing, the forces acting upon your body during periods of acceleration or braking are angled and unusual. This is temporary and can affect people differently. It is definitely noticeable for me but not a huge bother. Others I know really hate it.

Edit: I see now the AF config is also slightly angled so that might be a wash. My experiences in this config have been on other airlines where seats are straight-forward facing.

I think this is a good summary. The Air France seats should also be a little wider although I haven't flown their new angled seats which are closer to AC's product. AC's pods also feel more crowded as you have the whole seat apparatus surrounding you.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

Yep & Air Canada is operating Edmonton YEG to Ottawa YOW similarly as it was in S22 & with 1x daily service from May 1 - October 28 2023 operated by the Airbus A220-300 plane ✈️.

Good news Flair Airlines gets some competition on YEG- YOW route by AC this Spring & Summer again✅!!

Given both routes are virtually the same distance/block times, it's easy to flip the same aircraft from one to the other.

We'll see what WS does in the next couple of weeks as they've yet to announce their N. American summer schedule...but I wouldn't hold my breath for a 73G YEG-YOW to return.

[originalmuffins]

Air france coming to YOW with direct flights is huge. I am very happy to see that and all the Porter stuff. I hope we can retain those direct flights with AF long term - this will make travel to Europe and beyond much simpler for many. With AF offering direct, maybe we could also get KLM in on this, they both tend to offer fair value flights especially when travelling beyond Europe (Middle East/Asia)

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MountainView

I have never flown Air France, but looking at their seat maps online, I think a lot of premium passengers might prefer Air Canada's individual pods (all have aisle access) instead of AF's 2x2x2 in the business cabin.

Long haul is also about the network. More so than the product. I doubt if you're traveling to Northeast Asia, you'll fly with AF for example. AF will own the YOW to Europe market though. I'm curious to see if people choose rights routings like YOW-CDG-LHR with AF over YOW-YYZ-LHR with AC.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Takingoff

Quick. Someone get PD and AF in a room.

My first thought given that WestJet has all but abandoned the east and this screams opportunity for Porter[/QUOTE]

Yeah. But WestJet seems heavily tied up with SkyTeam partners and with AFKL serving just about every major Canadian city, they aren't going to be very concerned about getting feed at Ottawa. I think BA is probably the only airline who might consider a partnership with Porter at YOW.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Long haul is also about the network. More so than the product. I doubt if you're traveling to Northeast Asia, you'll fly with AF for example. AF will own the YOW to Europe market though. I'm curious to see if people choose rights routings like YOW-CDG-LHR with AF over YOW-YYZ-LHR with AC.

Does CGD have a non-Schengen terminal?

[JakeLRS]

Don't think it's been mentioned, but Flair has removed YOW-YQT for S23. That route was definitely a questionable one with a MAX aircraft.

[Flemay]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Long haul is also about the network. More so than the product. I doubt if you're traveling to Northeast Asia, you'll fly with AF for example. AF will own the YOW to Europe market though. I'm curious to see if people choose rights routings like YOW-CDG-LHR with AF over YOW-YYZ-LHR with AC.

Certainly I would go YOW-CDG-LHR . My wife goes to visit her family near Newcastle airport in England every year. Last year her itinerary was YOW-YYZ-LHR-NCL . With AF it will be YOW-CDG-NCL .A big game-changer. We are happy

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by JakeLRS

Don't think it's been mentioned, but Flair has removed YOW-YQT for S23. That route was definitely a questionable one with a MAX aircraft.

Prudent move going up against 2x daily PD.

Let's see where those 2x weekly frequencies will go to instead...if anywhere.

Today's departure count: 69 - including 10 sun flights

Today's cancellation count: 1

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Flemay

Certainly I would go YOW-CDG-LHR . My wife goes to visit her family near Newcastle airport in England every year. Last year her itinerary was YOW-YYZ-LHR-NCL . With AF it will be YOW-CDG-NCL .A big game-changer. We are happy

It certainly is exciting times. AF was my biggest hope in terms of European air carriers, more so than BA or LH. Everyone in this forum and outside this forum are welcoming this news with open arms. YOW and AF have done their work at getting it here. However, it’s now up to the people of Ottawa to vote on keeping it, by opening their wallets and choosing to use such service. Airlines often work on a use-it-or-lose-it basis.

[Flemay]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

It certainly is exciting times. AF was my biggest hope in terms of European air carriers, more so than BA or LH. Everyone in this forum and outside this forum are welcoming this news with open arms. YOW and AF have done their work at getting it here. However, it’s now up to the people of Ottawa to vote on keeping it, by opening their wallets and choosing to use such service. Airlines often work on a use-it-or-lose-it basis.

Oh we're going to use it alright (no doubt about that)

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Does CGD have a non-Schengen terminal?

I don't know about a dedicated terminal. This says you just need security check for non-schengen to non-schengen.



https://easycdg.com/passenger-inform...s-cdg-airport/

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Flemay

Certainly I would go YOW-CDG-LHR . My wife goes to visit her family near Newcastle airport in England every year. Last year her itinerary was YOW-YYZ-LHR-NCL . With AF it will be YOW-CDG-NCL .A big game-changer. We are happy

That's a benefit to be sure when you're cutting transfers. I'm wondering how competitive they'll be against AC through YYZ on the same destinations.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

That's a benefit to be sure when you're cutting transfers. I'm wondering how competitive they'll be against AC through YYZ on the same destinations.

Playing around with some summer European destinations and I'm a bit surprised. AF is very competitive to Paris where they are competing against connections. Air Canada maybe $100 cheaper but they are still charging more than they do from Montreal. To other European destinations AF is much more expensive than Air Canada, TAP etc who are flying one stop via Toronto or Montreal.

Honestly it all looks a little fishy/cartelish. AC is saying you can have the increased demand Paris will see and AF is letting them have at least the cheap connections to other destinations. I doubt they can fill planes just with Paris-Ottawa folks though and I think they need to be cheaper for the average Ottawa traveler to take them over AC via Toronto.

[YOWhopeful]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Playing around with some summer European destinations and I'm a bit surprised. AF is very competitive to Paris where they are competing against connections. Air Canada maybe $100 cheaper but they are still charging more than they do from Montreal. To other European destinations AF is much more expensive than Air Canada, TAP etc who are flying one stop via Toronto or Montreal.

Honestly it all looks a little fishy/cartelish. AC is saying you can have the increased demand Paris will see and AF is letting them have at least the cheap connections to other destinations. I doubt they can fill planes just with Paris-Ottawa folks though and I think they need to be cheaper for the average Ottawa traveler to take them over AC via Toronto.

I don’t think AF cares to be competitive on European destinations. Air France wants to take you from Ottawa through Paris to Beirut, Cairo, Dakar, Yaounde, Kinshasa, Johannesburg, Chennai, Mumbai and the like. Can AC compete with that?

[Truenorth00]

An Air France A332 has 224 seats. This is less than the Air Canada 788. And they are running that 5x per week. That's less seats to fill than AC previous service to LHR. AC could undercut them eventually with the XLR to LHR or to Europe's Star Alliance hubs, including BRU in that part of continent.

[YOWhopeful]

Well Air Canada can shove it. Now we’re waiting for XLRs? Empty promises. If Halifax without public servants could fill 737-800s to LHR, CDG, GLA and DUB, surely Ottawa could fill one to somewhere. Just one we ask. No. Air Canada has made it clear that Ottawa is an afterthought. And by the way, service to Ottawa from YUL and YYZ is mediocre at best as the schedule looks great but they are always ALWAYS delayed. Even before the pandemic. Especially to YUL.
I used to take long connections through YUL and YYZ because if I took a normal connection then I was sure to miss my connecting flight. And this is well before Covid. What a convenient excuse it has become. Covid just made it that much worse if that were possible.
I will give my business to Air France any day even if they are more expensive.