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  #3081  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2008, 11:14 PM
cbotnyse cbotnyse is offline
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^^ it actually is a good question. Do highrises discourage or encourage street level retail and pedestrian friendly streets? I think there are examples of it doing both. Might make for a good thread in the city discussion forum.
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  #3082  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2008, 1:11 AM
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Originally Posted by emathias View Post
Both State Street and Michigan Avenue have quite a few 12+ story buildings along them and I'd argue once you're over 12 it doesn't make much difference. 5th Avenue in New York is also a helluva shopping street and it's nearly 100% highrise. There are also shopping streets in Boise, Seattle, Portland and San Francisco that are dominated by high rises. If most shopping districts don't have high-rises, it's because most cities and neighborhoods don't have highrises, not because highrises don't lend themselves to retail.
^ Well put
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  #3083  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2008, 4:16 AM
emathias emathias is offline
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Originally Posted by cbotnyse View Post
^^ it actually is a good question. Do highrises discourage or encourage street level retail and pedestrian friendly streets? I think there are examples of it doing both. Might make for a good thread in the city discussion forum.
Well one thing that I think absolutely discourages street level, pedestrian-oriented retail is stand-alone surface parking lots. Excessive setbacks are also anathema to pedestrian-friendly shopping. Second-level parking above a single level of retail is also not especially friendly - all that darkness drains light from the street and light is the life of nighttime shopping. But that's not a highrise problem so much as a planning and design problem, since it could happen with a 6-story building just as easily as a 60-story one.
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  #3084  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2008, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by emathias View Post

Sheridan Road isn't vacant because it's surrounded by high-rises, it's vacant because it's less than a block from the Lake and therefore is freezing cold 8/12 months of the year. It's also become more or less a defacto extension of LSD, with speeding cars racing up or down it half the time. Those two factors MORE than negate any plus OR minus factor the high rises have. Plus, the hi-rises there aren't designed to be conducive to street-level retail.
Sheridan road area is actually much nicer during the spring, summer, and fall. Less humid and has a nice breeze, as does any part of the city near the lake. But yeah it pretty much is LSD extension. With just as many potholes too. Much of the retail serving the area is on Clark a few blocks west and east/west streets like Morse, Howard, Devon.
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  #3085  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2008, 12:22 AM
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Art Institute - Modern Wing

March 28, 2008





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  #3086  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2008, 12:28 AM
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Nichols Bridgeway

March 28, 2008









http://www.artic.edu/aic/modern_wing..._room/mwct.pdf

The Nichols Bridgeway: CONSTRUCTION FACTS

SCHEDULE
Groundbreaking: September 20, 2007
Anticipated opening: Spring 2009

BRIDGEWAY DIMENSIONS
• 620 feet long
• 15 feet wide
• Railings 42 inches tall
• 5.6% grade

BRIDGEWAY MATERIALS
Structural steel (painted white), stainless steel mesh, aluminum planking

BRIDGEWAY FEATURES
• Meets ADA standards for universal accessibility
• Heating elements to prevent formation of ice
• Anti-slip walkways

The Nichols Bridgeway: DESIGN HIGHLIGHTS
• The Nichols Bridgeway was added to the master plan of the Modern Wing by the Art Institute of Chicago and architect Renzo Piano in 2005.
• The Bridgeway will begin near the southwest corner of the Great Lawn in Millennium Park, rise over Monroe Street, and connect to the Modern Wing at the third floor of the west pavilion, where visitors will find a public sculpture terrace and dining facility.
• The design for the Bridgeway was inspired by the hull of a boat or sleek racing shell. It is a long, thin structure with a rounded bottom.
• The bottom of the Bridgeway will be made of structural steel painted white and the floors are textured aluminum planking. The railings of the Bridgeway will be made of steel that sits atop stainless steel mesh sidings.
• The Bridgeway and the South Exelon Pavilions in Millennium Park (also by Renzo Piano) were designed to complement the Modern Wing.
• The Bridgeway will afford views like no other of the Michigan Avenue “streetwall,” the lakefront, and Millennium Park.
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  #3087  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2008, 8:23 AM
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Valerio Dewalt Train's Halsted Blackhawk Block (British School, etc), 29 March:










Last edited by wrab; Mar 30, 2008 at 8:39 AM.
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  #3088  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2008, 1:44 PM
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^ Nice. A lot of people criticize this project but, at least from the pictures, I'm impressed.

My only concern is how this will look in 30 years
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  #3089  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2008, 2:46 PM
honte honte is offline
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^ Where have you seen all of that criticism? Are there people complaining about the style of the building? I don't remember anyone, at least around here, who wasn't pretty excited.

My only complaint, as it stood even way back in the render stage, is that the facade is a little too dull - say, compared to Jahn's State Street Village, which uses a similar vocabulary but succeeds on many more levels. But that's minor in the scheme of things. This one definitely gets a thumbs up, especially considering what it could have been.
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  #3090  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2008, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ Nice. A lot of people criticize this project but, at least from the pictures, I'm impressed.

My only concern is how this will look in 30 years
Probably something like this:


I'm not making any apologies for this one. I think VDT does great work but I don't think this building is one of them. I particularly don't think it works in this location. If people thought that Sun-Times looked like barge....

One more I couldn't resist:


That's right, it's the tank from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
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  #3091  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2008, 4:50 PM
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^ Ha, very interesting Busy Bee.

_________

In other news, Thursday the Landmarks Commission will consider preliminary landmarking for the Germania Club building and (a surprise to me) the Village Theatre next door. A "trade" for the Esquire Theatre perhaps ()?

overall.
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  #3092  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2008, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by honte View Post
Thursday the Landmarks Commission will consider preliminary landmarking for the Germania Club building
Good news...

Quote:
and (a surprise to me) the Village Theatre l.
What does that accomplish? The building is a dump, and with Michael's restaurant right next door these are prime re-development, up-density candidates. Now we'll be stuck with a decaying building and a moribund retail stretch, with underutilized land that should be brining in much more tax revenue ( as opposed to being a tax revenue sinkhole as a decaying 'landmark') and providing more vibrancy to the area. Granted the Village facade is very nice, but there is nothing behind that facade even remotely worth saving. This site is zoned B3-5, what reason is there to not build a 6-7 story building with first/second floor commercial space and perhaps 30-40 units on upper floors (with park and lake views, I might add, so they'd be worth a pretty penny)? This is such a valuable site (in terms of potential), just like the Burger King a block away at North/LaSalle that is now becoming a dumpy 1-story Fifth Third bank. Another total frickin' waste. God, can Ald. "Hack" Reilly go 5 minutes without doing something to ruin this ward? I can't wait to get elected 42nd alderman and pass an ordinance undoing every decision this tool has made.

As an immediate neighbor to these properties, this frosts me. I actually did "my part" and went to the Village theatre about once a month, and if the anti-change 'progressive' smog-belching Mastercard Marxists (Reilly's core NIMBY constituency) in the area had done the same rather than piling into the BMW and driving to the AMC River East, it probably would have survived. But now that it's gone, and clearly un-economical to maintain as a theater (see, AMC River East above) let's move forward for god's sake.

Last edited by VivaLFuego; Mar 30, 2008 at 8:57 PM.
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  #3093  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2008, 9:51 PM
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^ Whoa there! We have no idea what the landmarking designation will include for the building. As you know, the Commission has been overly generous in allowing people to do facadectomies on landmarks in Chicago. If the interior is wholly compromised, as you state, they probably will either allow a developer to gut it (a la Biograph theatre up the street - not much of a dump any longer, is it?) or do the facade treatment with a larger structure where the diner is now.

Also, don't forget that a rehab of the Village Theatre could qualify a developer for a density bonus, producing a restored facade and a taller building at the corner of North / Clark, which is something I'd personally really like to see.

Last, I would like to add that (unless you have other information that I haven't seen) the Commission may have elected to pursue the theatre without Reilly getting involved. They do act on their own sometimes, although of course they like to have the Alderman's consent.
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  #3094  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2008, 10:01 PM
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Granted the Village facade is very nice, but there is nothing behind that facade even remotely worth saving.
Well, we know that all landmarking protects in Chicago is the facade anyway, so not to worry. Just look at the Biograph or Farwell Building. Maybe a high rise behind it could be a little more difficult, but I bet they could make it happen. The Village, like the Germania, has been before landmarks before and hasn't gotten nearly as far as Germania did.

Incidentally although the Village may not look like much inside now it's probably restorable in theory at least, although to what end I don't know. I don't buy the River East argument, though, considering Pipers Alley still hangs on. http://www.mekong.net/random/cinema16.htm is a shot of the auditorium from the mid-80s. Pretty typical for a 1915-16 theater. Likely much of this is just covered up; some of the large plaster sconces are now at the Theatre Historical Society in Elmhurst. Frequently when splitting theaters owners were looking to do as little work as possible, so ornament was not necessarily removed. I recall that some of the proscenium and organ screen plaster was still there while it was operating, which usually indicates that it wasn't totally gutted.

Incidentally, although facadism is now clearly OK with landmarks, that;s the same thing that led to the Esquire NOT being landmarked; after the interior was almost entirely redone in the late 80s and the facade somewhat altered the City Council commission in 1994 ruled that the historic character had been too severely compromised, which clears the way for demolition now.
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  #3095  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2008, 10:03 PM
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Well, I guess Honte and I are on the same page.
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  #3096  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2008, 10:25 PM
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^ Definitely, but I like your arguments better! Let's see how much of the theatre is left before we consign it to history. Very interesting about the sconces etc.

I am not sure exactly what you mean by "has been before landmarks before." If they actually discussed this before and voted it down, they would not legally be able to revisit it. Maybe someone from the public suggested it, but they just nodded and moved on?
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  #3097  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2008, 11:35 PM
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^ Where have you seen all of that criticism? Are there people complaining about the style of the building? I don't remember anyone, at least around here, who wasn't pretty excited.
Count me as one of the strong supporters. I don't know why this doesn't work in that location, Busy Bee, especially considering Jahn's project is a stone's throw away.

Furthermore, dated is the first step in a process that leads to classic so I'd hold off on using that as a qualifier.
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  #3098  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2008, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G View Post
Furthermore, dated is the first step in a process that leads to classic so I'd hold off on using that as a qualifier.

I love it! I am going to have to quote that some day.
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  #3099  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2008, 3:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BWChicago View Post
Well, we know that all landmarking protects in Chicago is the facade anyway, so not to worry. Just look at the Biograph or Farwell Building. Maybe a high rise behind it could be a little more difficult, but I bet they could make it happen. The Village, like the Germania, has been before landmarks before and hasn't gotten nearly as far as Germania did.

Incidentally although the Village may not look like much inside now it's probably restorable in theory at least, although to what end I don't know. I don't buy the River East argument, though, considering Pipers Alley still hangs on. http://www.mekong.net/random/cinema16.htm is a shot of the auditorium from the mid-80s. Pretty typical for a 1915-16 theater. Likely much of this is just covered up; some of the large plaster sconces are now at the Theatre Historical Society in Elmhurst. Frequently when splitting theaters owners were looking to do as little work as possible, so ornament was not necessarily removed. I recall that some of the proscenium and organ screen plaster was still there while it was operating, which usually indicates that it wasn't totally gutted.

Incidentally, although facadism is now clearly OK with landmarks, that;s the same thing that led to the Esquire NOT being landmarked; after the interior was almost entirely redone in the late 80s and the facade somewhat altered the City Council commission in 1994 ruled that the historic character had been too severely compromised, which clears the way for demolition now.
To honte and BW, I would graciously, gleefully welcome a facadectomy in this case, as I acknowledge the facade is quite excellent, but really the theatre behind it is quite dumpy at this point (having spent alot of time in movies there). Don't let my hyperbole in the matter give the impression this is something I lose sleep over, but put simply "I disagree with this decision." The Germania is in good condition and is fully utilized and contributes to the surrounding streetscape and neighborhood. Given it's historic and architectural importance, I think it's an obvious landmarking candidate. The Village Theatre? Not so much; if anything, I think a drive to landmark this structure is exactly the sort of campaign that demeans the entire preservation movement and supports the reasons why many people don't take the movement seriously.

I'm reminded of an older gentleman who spoke up at a community meeting for 830 S. Michigan, saying in regards to the rotting YWCA building: "So why are you guys saving that crappy building?" In some instances, this is a good question. The Village is nowhere on the same spectacular scale as say, the Uptown. Nor would reuse of the existing building as a high-traffic venue (e.g. for concerts) be a desired use as far as the neighborhood is concerned (omg the parking!!!1), so the Congress/Riviera model is also inapplicable. About the only thing I could see would be something a la the Biograph, but I can't possibly see how the economics work out favorably for that in this location.

In re: the River East factor in killing the Village, I still maintain the argument because:

1) Pipers Alley has parking, Village does not.
2) Village almost exclusively focused on 'mainstream movies'. River East is mostly mainstream with typically one or two "art" films on the billing at any time. Pipers Alley is exclusively devoted to "art" and "foreign" films, like the Century a couple miles north, and thus are not competing with River East as was the Village.

BTW some really great photos at that site you linked, BW. Also noticed you're a major contributor at cinematreasures, good stuff.

Last edited by VivaLFuego; Mar 31, 2008 at 3:48 AM.
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  #3100  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2008, 3:47 AM
honte honte is offline
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^ The building qualifies for landmarking simply because it is one of the few to survive Sandburg Pillage. That won't be their argument, but I think you could make that case.

In any case, your argument that only the facade is worth saving applies to about 60-70% of Chicago landmarks, so I don't put much stock in it. I can't see how you would like to trade this facade for a measly 6-7 story building that has a 95% chance of being hideous, given building practice today.

Trust me, you're far more likely in this political climate to convince the city to allow a facadectomy on a landmark than you are to convince them to protect a facade of an un-landmarked building, so I think you should be happy they're doing anything. Just my two cents.
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