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  #15561  
Old Posted May 8, 2021, 7:09 PM
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mcgrath618 mcgrath618 is offline
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Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
That's good to hear. I was asking about population in the central business district or whatever term applies. Chicago was/is #2 and Philly was 3rd. Chicago has built a good number of tall residential stuff, but if Philly is now around 10K in a year, we won't be 3 for very long. NYC/Manhattan is divided up into several different sections.
Philly is currently #2, ahead of Chicago, according to Wikipedia.
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  #15562  
Old Posted May 8, 2021, 10:22 PM
PHLtoNYC PHLtoNYC is offline
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Originally Posted by Jayfar View Post
Possibly, but I'm thinking Giant Heirloom may occupy only the portion that was NOT used by Century 21. C21 had their awnings with signage all along the building, but didn't have an actual presence inside the eastern portion where Heirloom is expected.

Yesterday as I was zipping by on a bus, I caught a glimpse of a coming soon sign for <something, something> family department store. I regret I didn't catch the name. I'm guessing that new tenant will take up some or all of the former C21 space.

EDIT: The tenant named on the "coming soon" signage over on the western section is SHOPPERS WORLD, with the taglines "Always New, Always for LESS!" and "Your Family Department Store!" The sign appears in the window to the left of the former Century 21 Market St entrance.

Who the heck is Shoppers World? They're in several states, mostly in the mid-atlantic, but their only PA store thus far is on Aramingo Ave:

3399 Aramingo Avenue, Philadelphia, PA 19134 • (215)291-4923, (215)291-4924

COMING SOON • Fashion District Philadelphia, 821 Market Street (#1130), Philadelphia, PA 19107

Under CEO Sam Dushey, NY-based Shoppers World is in its 3rd generation of family ownership.

http://shoppersworldusa.com/aboutus.html

https://shoppersworldusa.com/store.html
Shoppers World... That sounds promising... Does Macerich even try to attract better retailers, or do retailers actually just turn their back on Philadelphia?

They can't get a Home Goods, Michael's, Crate & Barrel, Zara, Lego World, The Real Real, or any legitimate / solid retailer to fill this space?
     
     
  #15563  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 2:12 PM
iamrobk iamrobk is offline
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Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
Shoppers World... That sounds promising... Does Macerich even try to attract better retailers, or do retailers actually just turn their back on Philadelphia?

They can't get a Home Goods, Michael's, Crate & Barrel, Zara, Lego World, The Real Real, or any legitimate / solid retailer to fill this space?
Believe me, people are trying but retailers just aren't interested in expanding right now. Hardly Philly specific either.
     
     
  #15564  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 10:59 PM
PHLtoNYC PHLtoNYC is offline
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Originally Posted by iamrobk View Post
Believe me, people are trying but retailers just aren't interested in expanding right now. Hardly Philly specific either.
Eh, they weren't exactly flocking to Philadelphia before the pandemic either. At large, sure retail is struggling, but zooming in, Philadelphia is definitely not in the minds of many retailers, (for many reasons). But I hope in the coming years with all the new construction, the city will see a surge in commercial (and restaurant) activity. It would be nice to steal some thunder from KoP or Cherry Hill.
     
     
  #15565  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 12:59 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
Eh, they weren't exactly flocking to Philadelphia before the pandemic either. At large, sure retail is struggling, but zooming in, Philadelphia is definitely not in the minds of many retailers, (for many reasons). But I hope in the coming years with all the new construction, the city will see a surge in commercial (and restaurant) activity. It would be nice to steal some thunder from KoP or Cherry Hill.
I work for a company with an expanding retail fleet. Granted, we have definitely scaled back our expansion plans. Initially, we intended to open 40 stores this year, and now we're planning about 15.

That being said, retailers see this an as opportunity but are watching rents and really want the best locations. We're attempting to re-negotiate nearly all of our existing leases (which takes time) and there is limited human capital in these departments to do this...but for sure we're watching.

We definitely have Philadelphia on the list. I think part of the issue with Philadelphia is that there is Walnut Street and then (nearly) nothing else. And the rents on Walnut are exhorbitant. Still.

Philadelphia really needs to develop a secondary (good) high street for shops that don't need to be among top designers and market it, develop it, and support it. I know y'all are gonna say that's Chestnut...but Chestnut still feels like a bargain bin on most blocks.

For me, N 3rd in Old City feels like a contender but it's very tight (space wise) and the locals would freak about parking etc if some high volume stores came in.

Some of our highest grossing stores are just in neighborhood store fronts in solid neighborhoods with good demographics. Nothing like Walnut Street. Philadelphia doesn't have an antecedent.
     
     
  #15566  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 1:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
I work for a company with an expanding retail fleet. Granted, we have definitely scaled back our expansion plans. Initially, we intended to open 40 stores this year, and now we're planning about 15.

That being said, retailers see this an as opportunity but are watching rents and really want the best locations. We're attempting to re-negotiate nearly all of our existing leases (which takes time) and there is limited human capital in these departments to do this...but for sure we're watching.

We definitely have Philadelphia on the list. I think part of the issue with Philadelphia is that there is Walnut Street and then (nearly) nothing else. And the rents on Walnut are exhorbitant. Still.

Philadelphia really needs to develop a secondary (good) high street for shops that don't need to be among top designers and market it, develop it, and support it. I know y'all are gonna say that's Chestnut...but Chestnut still feels like a bargain bin on most blocks.

For me, N 3rd in Old City feels like a contender but it's very tight (space wise) and the locals would freak about parking etc if some high volume stores came in.

Some of our highest grossing stores are just in neighborhood store fronts in solid neighborhoods with good demographics. Nothing like Walnut Street. Philadelphia doesn't have an antecedent.
I think Chestnut,Walnut,Locust, Broad St, Market St are good strips for retail stores.

Whats the data showing on it?
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  #15567  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 1:43 PM
iamrobk iamrobk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
I work for a company with an expanding retail fleet. Granted, we have definitely scaled back our expansion plans. Initially, we intended to open 40 stores this year, and now we're planning about 15.

That being said, retailers see this an as opportunity but are watching rents and really want the best locations. We're attempting to re-negotiate nearly all of our existing leases (which takes time) and there is limited human capital in these departments to do this...but for sure we're watching.

We definitely have Philadelphia on the list. I think part of the issue with Philadelphia is that there is Walnut Street and then (nearly) nothing else. And the rents on Walnut are exhorbitant. Still.

Philadelphia really needs to develop a secondary (good) high street for shops that don't need to be among top designers and market it, develop it, and support it. I know y'all are gonna say that's Chestnut...but Chestnut still feels like a bargain bin on most blocks.

For me, N 3rd in Old City feels like a contender but it's very tight (space wise) and the locals would freak about parking etc if some high volume stores came in.

Some of our highest grossing stores are just in neighborhood store fronts in solid neighborhoods with good demographics. Nothing like Walnut Street. Philadelphia doesn't have an antecedent.
South Street still has really good pedestrian traffic and stores seem to be doing well... but I also don't blame anyone who doesn't want to open a store on South Street.
     
     
  #15568  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 1:51 PM
skyhigh07 skyhigh07 is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
I work for a company with an expanding retail fleet. Granted, we have definitely scaled back our expansion plans. Initially, we intended to open 40 stores this year, and now we're planning about 15.

That being said, retailers see this an as opportunity but are watching rents and really want the best locations. We're attempting to re-negotiate nearly all of our existing leases (which takes time) and there is limited human capital in these departments to do this...but for sure we're watching.

We definitely have Philadelphia on the list. I think part of the issue with Philadelphia is that there is Walnut Street and then (nearly) nothing else. And the rents on Walnut are exhorbitant. Still.

Philadelphia really needs to develop a secondary (good) high street for shops that don't need to be among top designers and market it, develop it, and support it. I know y'all are gonna say that's Chestnut...but Chestnut still feels like a bargain bin on most blocks.

For me, N 3rd in Old City feels like a contender but it's very tight (space wise) and the locals would freak about parking etc if some high volume stores came in.

Some of our highest grossing stores are just in neighborhood store fronts in solid neighborhoods with good demographics. Nothing like Walnut Street. Philadelphia doesn't have an antecedent.
Whatever floats your boat, but I honestly don't understand this mentality amongst retailers. I've heard the "retailers are too afraid to go outside Walnut St" argument for years. At this point, Rittenhouse has enough foot traffic and buying power for higher end retailers. I personally know a lot of residents in the area that are frustrated by the lacking of it. With the amount of luxury apartments and condos going up in the area, retailers should be paying attention. Chestnut St is hardly a "bargain block" anymore. Sure you have your typical mall retailers - Uniqlo, Sephora, Express, J Crew, Old Navy etc, but its strange how some continue to hold that view when the W, Ritz and Four Seasons Hotels are a block away. Even Boyd's should be more of an anchor, but for some reason it doesn't seem to be as much as it should.

I can somewhat understand the reluctance to open up shop east of Broad, but the hesitancy to relocate anywhere between one of the region's wealthiest neighborhoods and the city's central business district besides Walnut leaves a lot of residents perplexed.

Last edited by skyhigh07; May 10, 2021 at 2:07 PM.
     
     
  #15569  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 2:10 PM
PHLtoNYC PHLtoNYC is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
I work for a company with an expanding retail fleet. Granted, we have definitely scaled back our expansion plans. Initially, we intended to open 40 stores this year, and now we're planning about 15.

That being said, retailers see this an as opportunity but are watching rents and really want the best locations. We're attempting to re-negotiate nearly all of our existing leases (which takes time) and there is limited human capital in these departments to do this...but for sure we're watching.

We definitely have Philadelphia on the list. I think part of the issue with Philadelphia is that there is Walnut Street and then (nearly) nothing else. And the rents on Walnut are exhorbitant. Still.

Philadelphia really needs to develop a secondary (good) high street for shops that don't need to be among top designers and market it, develop it, and support it. I know y'all are gonna say that's Chestnut...but Chestnut still feels like a bargain bin on most blocks.

For me, N 3rd in Old City feels like a contender but it's very tight (space wise) and the locals would freak about parking etc if some high volume stores came in.

Some of our highest grossing stores are just in neighborhood store fronts in solid neighborhoods with good demographics. Nothing like Walnut Street. Philadelphia doesn't have an antecedent.
So the hesitation in your experience is related to a lack of "catchet" outside of Walnut Street?

I also figured a lack of sizable parcels to house larger format stores was an issue in CC too. Market Street has the potential to house large home stores, "big-box" retailers etc. And now Broad just South of City Hall has a few large open spots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyhigh07 View Post
Whatever floats your boat, but I honestly don't understand this mentality amongst retailers. I've heard the "retailers are too afraid to go outside Walnut St" argument for years. At this point, Rittenhouse has enough foot traffic and buying power for higher end retailers. I personally know a lot of residents in the area that are frustrated by the lacking of it. With the amount of luxury apartments and condos going up in the area, retailers should be paying attention. Chestnut St is hardly a "bargain block" anymore. Sure you have your typical mall retailers - Uniqlo, Express, J Crew, Old Navy etc, but its strange how some continue to hold that view when the W, Ritz and Four Seasons Hotels are a block away. Even Boyd's should be more of an anchor, but for some reason it doesn't seem to be as much as it should.

I can somewhat understand the reluctance to open up shop east of Broad, but the hesitancy to relocate anywhere between one of the region's wealthiest neighborhoods and the city's central business district besides Walnut leaves a lot of residents perplexed.
Yea, I am lost, and I guess it really comes down to rents? Banana Republic is closing its longstanding Broad & Walnut location, due to "issues renewing the lease". The space will be split into (2) retail spots, one of which will be a bank...

Banana, Zara, Cole Haan, etc. all left likely due to rents, yet they didn't / won't relocate elsewhere in CC. Does that mean they didn't find it worth the cost to even consider a new location? Yet all those stores were always relatively busy, I don't get it...

I was in Chicago last weekend and Lego World, American Girl, Zara, Starbucks Roastery, Adidas all had lines out the door! Why those types of retailers aren't in Philadelphia is perplexing to me. I am not talking about Gucci or Hermes, but basic retailers to generate sales and foot traffic or experiential type places like Lego World.

I hope for a rebound / rebirth in the coming years, because besides the convenience factor, its not a good look when there is literally nowhere to shop besides a few local boutiques, and I don't think "Shoppers World" will elevate Market Street, maybe Primark will though.

Also, comparing to KoP, there is no trouble leasing space or attracting retailers to that entire region. I am guessing lower rents, more sales, more parcel opportunities, less social issues (crime, unrest, vandalism)? Just asking if anyone wants to answer.
     
     
  #15570  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 2:14 PM
PHLtoNYC PHLtoNYC is offline
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Finally some good economic news!

Fore Biotherapeutics picks Philadelphia for global HQ, may add dozens of workers

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=0#cxrecs_s

I am adding 2 small quotes to give an idea...

"A precision oncology company founded in Jerusalem has established a new global headquarters in Philadelphia."

"Usama Malik, CEO at Fore Biotherapeutics, said the company is starting out with five people in Philadelphia — but it could add dozens more this year."

Boston & DC were in the running, but Philadelphia was chosen due to local talent, a huge presence in the industry, nearby institutions, and central location.
     
     
  #15571  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 2:22 PM
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Originally Posted by iamrobk View Post
South Street still has really good pedestrian traffic and stores seem to be doing well... but I also don't blame anyone who doesn't want to open a store on South Street.
South St is one of our most busiest, Diverse strips in the city, I understand at night is when shit gets turned up or whenever the bike parade goes through but its the most solid and defined street in the city.

Im confused on people being scared of it or operating on it, thats a strip where you are guaranteed business.

Theres stores on that strip that have been there 10+ years.

just add Center city watch to the strip and it will clean up a bit.
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  #15572  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
Finally some good economic news!

Fore Biotherapeutics picks Philadelphia for global HQ, may add dozens of workers

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=0#cxrecs_s

I am adding 2 small quotes to give an idea...

"A precision oncology company founded in Jerusalem has established a new global headquarters in Philadelphia."

"Usama Malik, CEO at Fore Biotherapeutics, said the company is starting out with five people in Philadelphia — but it could add dozens more this year."

Boston & DC were in the running, but Philadelphia was chosen due to local talent, a huge presence in the industry, nearby institutions, and central location.
Awesome news, we even beat out Boston! I feel like this (biomed, therapeutics, etc) is going to be a really big asset around here going forward.
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  #15573  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayfar View Post

EDIT: The tenant named on the "coming soon" signage over on the western section is SHOPPERS WORLD, with the taglines "Always New, Always for LESS!" and "Your Family Department Store!" The sign appears in the window to the left of the former Century 21 Market St entrance.

Who the heck is Shoppers World? They're in several states, mostly in the mid-atlantic, but their only PA store thus far is on Aramingo Ave:

3399 Aramingo Avenue, Philadelphia, PA 19134 • (215)291-4923, (215)291-4924

COMING SOON • Fashion District Philadelphia, 821 Market Street (#1130), Philadelphia, PA 19107
Not to throw cold water on the ~SHOPPER'S WORLD~ news, but that is a really budget retailer (think K-Mart tier).

Speaking of which, wasn't there once a K-Mart in the old Gallery eons ago? Sounds like this move is a return to its roots for this shopping district aimed at its former target demographic. However, this tenant is a sharp turn away from Century-21 caliber, and unfortunately isn't a step toward the reimagined area many on here would like to see.
     
     
  #15574  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 4:18 PM
skyhigh07 skyhigh07 is offline
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Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
So the hesitation in your experience is related to a lack of "catchet" outside of Walnut Street?

I also figured a lack of sizable parcels to house larger format stores was an issue in CC too. Market Street has the potential to house large home stores, "big-box" retailers etc. And now Broad just South of City Hall has a few large open spots.



Yea, I am lost, and I guess it really comes down to rents? Banana Republic is closing its longstanding Broad & Walnut location, due to "issues renewing the lease". The space will be split into (2) retail spots, one of which will be a bank...

Banana, Zara, Cole Haan, etc. all left likely due to rents, yet they didn't / won't relocate elsewhere in CC. Does that mean they didn't find it worth the cost to even consider a new location? Yet all those stores were always relatively busy, I don't get it...

I was in Chicago last weekend and Lego World, American Girl, Zara, Starbucks Roastery, Adidas all had lines out the door! Why those types of retailers aren't in Philadelphia is perplexing to me. I am not talking about Gucci or Hermes, but basic retailers to generate sales and foot traffic or experiential type places like Lego World.

I hope for a rebound / rebirth in the coming years, because besides the convenience factor, its not a good look when there is literally nowhere to shop besides a few local boutiques, and I don't think "Shoppers World" will elevate Market Street, maybe Primark will though.

Also, comparing to KoP, there is no trouble leasing space or attracting retailers to that entire region. I am guessing lower rents, more sales, more parcel opportunities, less social issues (crime, unrest, vandalism)? Just asking if anyone wants to answer.
Agreed. There seems to be a big disconnect between retail (particularly apparel) and growing demand within Center City. The boom of new luxury condos/apartment developments, the presence of high end hoteliers and the amazing restaurant scene (which outside of NYC is probably the best on the East Coast) all seem to reflect this demand, but retail seems to be coming in at a trickle.

Like you mentioned, social issues may come into play somewhat - although, Chicago certainly has its rough parts as well, but Michigan Ave always seems to do fine. Part of the reason might actually be what you mentioned - KOP. DC and in particular Georgetown doesn't have the kind of retail you'd expect either. High end apparel seems to be lumped together at Tyson's Corner in Maryland. It might be retailers concentrate on affluent suburban malls because its just generally an easier investment and then they call that their regional presence.

Last edited by skyhigh07; May 10, 2021 at 4:30 PM.
     
     
  #15575  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 5:34 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by TonyTone View Post
I think Chestnut,Walnut,Locust, Broad St, Market St are good strips for retail stores.

Whats the data showing on it?
Where on Chestnut, Locust and Broad? There's like 1 store on Broad Street (Banana) and as stated, it's closing.

Retailers need adjacencies. Walnut Street as I said is logical but the rent is exhorbitant. Chestnut is only slightly less expensive and still exhorbitant, also, the floor plates are huge so you need to have a certain size to be a good fit. Market has Market East which PREIT shit the bed on and incorrectly positioned as an outlet center (instead of a big box location), so the damage is done (i.e. Shoppers World). Where on Locust? Next to the 1 store? Suit Supply?

So where else where a retailer wouldn't be a pioneer?
     
     
  #15576  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 6:08 PM
skyhigh07 skyhigh07 is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
Where on Chestnut, Locust and Broad? There's like 1 store on Broad Street (Banana) and as stated, it's closing.

Retailers need adjacencies. Walnut Street as I said is logical but the rent is exhorbitant. Chestnut is only slightly less expensive and still exhorbitant, also, the floor plates are huge so you need to have a certain size to be a good fit. Market has Market East which PREIT shit the bed on and incorrectly positioned as an outlet center (instead of a big box location), so the damage is done (i.e. Shoppers World). Where on Locust? Next to the 1 store? Suit Supply?

So where else where a retailer wouldn't be a pioneer?
How are floorplates on Chestnut too big? Its a mixed bag really. If anything the complaint has been that floorplates in Rittenhouse are too small. I don't understand why prospective retailers seem to be so fastidious in Philly - its not the moon landing. Floorplates in Boston's Back Bay (Newbury and Boylston) are much more awkward (most are old converted narrow brownstones with stoops) but they still seem to attract quality retailers.
     
     
  #15577  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 6:59 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
...

For me, N 3rd in Old City feels like a contender but it's very tight (space wise) and the locals would freak about parking etc if some high volume stores came in.
... .
...As an Old City-er, I'd welcome an increase in new stores like that. While 3rd street might be tight, there is a huge opportunity on 2nd street with several larger format spaces available.

It's always been surprising to me that 1. 2nd street hasn't been given the same treatment as 3rd street with trees and lamposts etc. and 2. that there hasn't been any bars or restaurants opening between Race and Market. I know there was a semi-ordience that the Old City Civic Association had in place when Old City was trashy but that association has been gone for years. There was a rumor that the old Economy Restaurant supply store on the corner of Arch and 2nd was developing into a boutique hotel and restaurant on the bottom floor but that place has been down to studs for years.

There's a lot of vacancies in OC right now. If I were a bar guy, I'd be snapping this stuff up right now... .
     
     
  #15578  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 7:04 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by skyhigh07 View Post
How are floorplates on Chestnut too big? Its a mixed bag really. If anything the complaint has been that floorplates in Rittenhouse are too small. I don't understand why prospective retailers seem to be so fastidious in Philly - its not the moon landing. Floorplates in Boston's Back Bay (Newbury and Boylston) are much more awkward (most are old converted narrow brownstones with stoops) but they still seem to attract quality retailers.
Because they're much bigger than Walnut. So even though the price per sf is lower, you have to take more square footage (on average), so it comes out in the wash.

Newbury is akin to Walnut Street. Small floor plates very high rents.

I've moved on from Walnut. It's a non-starter for many (most) refusing to pay the rent and there's almost nothing else that's super attractive as a #2 location.
     
     
  #15579  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 7:05 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
...As an Old City-er, I'd welcome an increase in new stores. While 3rd street might be tight, there is a huge opportunity on 2nd street with several larger format spaces available.

It's always been surprising to me that 1. 2nd street hasn't been given the same treatment as 3rd street with trees and lamposts etc. and 2. that there hasn't been any bars or restaurants opening between Race and Market. I know there was a semi-ordience that the Old City Civic Association had in place when Old City was trashy but that association has been gone for years. There was a rumor that the old Economy Restaurant supply store on the corner of Arch and 2nd was developing into a boutique hotel and restaurant on the bottom floor but that place has been down to studs for years.

There's a lot of vacancies in OC right now. If I were a bar guy, I'd be snapping this stuff up right now... .
The overlay is still in place for no liquor licenses north of Market even though the association is gone.
     
     
  #15580  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 7:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
The overlay is still in place for no liquor licenses north of Market even though the association is gone.
I wonder why, though. Couldn't someone challenge that?
     
     
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