US Cities that are Helped/Hurt by being near Larger US Cities

[SFBruin]

Apologies if there is already a thread for this topic.

I was watching an aerial view video of Philadelphia and was surprised at how large of a city it was.

• Video Link

I feel that it often gets overlooked due to its proximity to New York.

Of course, it could be the other way around, where part of why it is a relatively large city to begin with is that it is economically benefited by being near New York.

This begged the question, to me, which is: Which cities in the US are helped and/or hurt in terms of profile by being near a larger US city?

[Steely Dan]

In the case of Chicago and Milwaukee, overall it probably hurts Milwaukee a little bit more than it helps.

Living under chicago's shadow depresses Milwaukee's profile to a degree, and being so close to ORD, MKE has weaker route offerings than it otherwise would were it located further away from the windy city.

On the other hand, being so close to Chicago meant that Milwaukee got a lot of Latino immigration spillover, to the point where Milwaukee now has the 2nd largest Latino population in the Midwest.

So these relationships are usually a mixed bag of both good and bad.

[dc_denizen]

Oakland and the entire east bay

[the urban politician]

I would say that being near a more prominent city tends to hurt cities more than it helps them.

Philly will always be in New York’s shadow, same with Milwaukee.

But for people living in those cities, they may be better off. Live in a lower cost city but have access to the big enchilada when you need it.

[iheartthed]

Baltimore has definitely been hurt by being so close to D.C.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

In the case of Chicago and Milwaukee, overall it probably hurts Milwaukee a little bit more than it helps.

Living under chicago's shadow depresses Milwaukee's profile to a degree, and being so close to ORD, MKE has weaker route offerings than it otherwise would were it located further away from the windy city.

On the other hand, being so close to Chicago meant that Milwaukee got a lot of Latino immigration spillover, to the point where Milwaukee now has the 2nd largest Latino population in the Midwest.

So these relationships are usually a mixed bag of both good and bad.

Other than perhaps a lower profile, I never perceived Milwaukee as being hurt. Its economy has economy has always been fine, and other than the racial segregation, the city landscape is not too bad. It actually had a unique profile of being the beer capital, which helped, and it had good sports teams.

Baltimore used to have a greater profile than DC, or at least as great, because it was a industrial and manufacturing city, while DC was sort of a swampy southern town up until 1970s, when the Federal government started a major growth and DC and Northern VA took off.


I would argue that San Jose, CA is overlooked because of SF, even more so than Oakland being overlooked. Despite being in the middle of Silicon Valley, I don't think it has much of an identity. Oakland at least had somewhat of an identity to me - with the sports teams and the Black Power movement.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by DCReid

I would argue that San Jose, CA is overlooked because of SF, even more so than Oakland being overlooked. Despite being in the middle of Silicon Valley, I don't think it has much of an identity. Oakland at least had somewhat of an identity to me - with the sports teams and the Black Power movement.

I agree, but making that SF-level money makes it worth it. ijs San Jose might be overlooked but he's driving a Maserati. LOL

[Eightball]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Baltimore has definitely been hurt by being so close to D.C.

Baltimore would be way worse off if not for being close to DC. Amazing how bad shape it's in given it's in the wealthiest state in the country close to the federal government, part of a metro area that's growing, the largest city in the state etc etc

Truly terrible city govt

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Eightball

Baltimore would be way worse off if not for being close to DC. Amazing how bad shape it's in given it's in the wealthiest state in the country close to the federal government, part of a metro area that's growing, the largest city in the state etc etc

Truly terrible city govt

Baltimore's economy is disconnected from DC's for the most part. The wealthiest communities in MD are largely associated with DC. Almost all of the growth of the federal government has been concentrated in NOVA.

[10023]

Generally speaking I think it hurts more than helps these days, whereas in the past (when Western economies were predominantly manufacturing) it might have helped, for the same reason that “competitive clustering” works in retail.

Today, when the highest earners basically choose where they want to live and local geography (whether it be rivers, trade routes, coal seams etc) is basically irrelevant aside from whether or not the place has nice weather, there is a “consolidation” effect where the strong get stronger and the weak wither.

So the best and brightest in the UK are drawn to London, and former regional centers or centers of particular industries have a reduced profile. The US is too big for one city to dominate, but in the same way, Northeasterners (and many others from around the country) go to New Yorkers, Midwesterners go to Chicago, etc. There must be a staggering proportion of Big Ten college graduates that spend at least a few years in Chicago, and they’re probably more likely to do that now rather than staying in Michigan, Ohio etc than they once were, because it’s close enough to family and more appealing to most people than Detroit or Cleveland.

[wwmiv]

For a long time, Austin was definitely helped by being in close proximity to San Antonio, Houston, and DFW. Maybe it still is. It is definitely benefiting from being in close “economic proximity” to the Bay Area if you wanna measure proximity in a manner other than geography.

And Fort Worth is definitely helped by being in Dallas’s orbit. Likewise for Dallas: without the Fort Worth’s MSA division’s additional 2.3 million people and massive business presence, it would be more similarly sized to Phoenix or Boston instead of being the fourth largest MSA and definitely the tier just beneath Chicago.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Baltimore's economy is disconnected from DC's for the most part. The wealthiest communities in MD are largely associated with DC. Almost all of the growth of the federal government has been concentrated in NOVA.

Yes, the wealthiest parts or parts that are doing well are associated with DC - like Bethesda and Rockville, which have a growing biotech corridor due to NIH, Potomac, and the rest Montgomery county. Prince George's gets a bad rap, but much of it is doing fine especially as you get further and further out from the DC city.

[Quixote]

Proximity to NYC hasn’t really benefited Philly in any meaningful way other than perhaps skilled workers in the finance industry who are Delaware Valley natives and/or prefer the lower cost of living (the latter not exclusive to just financiers) being able to commute to Manhattan via Acela or drive up the Turnpike to high-paying jobs in NJ. For what it's worth, I consider Mercer County evenly split between NYC and Philly (even though it's technically part of the NYC CSA), because Trenton borders Bucks County and Princeton is equidistant from the most northeastern part of Northeast Philadelphia and the southern tip of Staten Island.

Philly though has always been a prominent and populous American city with its own distinct sense of place and cultural identity. The architecture, food, sports, demographics, and accent are quite different than NYC.

Philly is doing fine these days. The Bidens, Will Smith, Kevin Hart, Bradley Cooper, Tina Fey, and Carli Lloyd are great Philly ambassadors, the Eagles and Flyers have IMO top-five fan bases (brashness notwithstanding) within their respective leagues, the 76ers are title contenders, and the city is still relatively affordable and a short train ride away from two of the most important cities in the world.

[summersm343]

Historically I think there’s no question that Philadelphia’s proximity to New York hurt it. Moving forward? I think Philadelphia’s proximity to NYC will help it greatly as it continues to get more expensive.

However, that said, Philadelphia is still a badass city, on par with Boston, San Fran, DC, Miami, Atlanta and any others in this “tier.” Philadelphia has a lot going for it and gets better every year. It’s been able to build itself into a great city, regardless of its proximity to any other. Where it’s located has only made things even better honestly. Not only do I have a fantastic urban city at my fingertips, but with and hour or two I can be in NYC, Baltimore, DC, the beach, the country, the mountains, etc.

[summersm343]

Some others:

Baltimore is hurt by it’s proximity to DC.
Jersey City is helped by its proximity to NYC.
Oakland is hurt by its proximity to San Fran.
Milwaukee is hurt by its proximity to Chicago.
Fort Worth is helped by its proximity to Dallas.

[Quixote]

The pull of NYC most impacts Philly's CSA population count/ranking, resulting in the Delaware Valley being perhaps the least sprawling major metro area in terms of geography. Ocean and Mercer Counties in NJ, and Lehigh Valley and perhaps Lancaster County in PA would be included if there was more distance between it and NYC and Baltimore.

Ocean, Mercer, and Lehigh Valley would add another 1.8 million; 2.4 million with Lancaster included.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by Quixote

For what it's worth, I consider Mercer County evenly split between NYC and Philly (even though it's technically part of the NYC CSA), because Trenton borders Bucks County and Princeton is equidistant from the most northeastern part of Northeast Philadelphia and the southern tip of Staten Island.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar....pone.0166083:

Importantly, several of these algorithmically-detected megaregions also show spatial divisions which are not immediately evident in visual interpretation.

...

what the algorithm finds, however, is that there is a stronger internal than external matrix of connections on either side of this edge. A similar pattern is evident along the Delaware River between New Jersey and Pennsylvania, where the New York City region breaks almost perfectly into the Philadelphia region.

I.E. commuter data definitely show it better connected to NYC than Philadelphia.
But also:

In such cases, it becomes clear that the dream of a regionalization based purely on statistical analysis is unviable; any division of space into unit areas will have to take into account a “common sense” interpretation of the validity and cohesion of the regions resulting from an algorithmic approach. For this reason, the visual heuristic method coupled with the algorithmic method offers a good combination of human interpretation and statistical precision. The algorithm is able to detect subtle boundary definitions and evaluate edges where the human eye would struggle to draw a clear line. However, the visual method has an advantage in matching coherent regions to an interpretive understanding of regions conjoined by cultural, political, or other similarities which are not captured in the data structure of the commute patterns.

A human approach counterbalances that statistical anomaly and would, like you, reassign this area to being split between Philadelphia and NYC.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Some others:

Baltimore is hurt by it’s proximity to DC.
Jersey City is helped by its proximity to NYC.
Oakland is hurt by its proximity to San Fran.
Milwaukee is hurt by its proximity to Chicago.
Fort Worth is helped by its proximity to Dallas.

Of all the cities hurt by proximity to NYC, probably the most hurt would be Newark, NJ. If it was split off as a metro area, the metro would be about 2.2 million, according to Wiki. It sort of can't get much of the break, as the spillover of businesses and development from NYC seems to have mostly benefitted Jersey City. Newark seems to have been left in the dust by a revitalized Jersey City.

[Segun]

What I knew of Oakland was from M.C. Hammer, Too Short, Black Panthers, and the A's as a child. I didn't even know it was literally across the Bay from SF until later.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Oakland and the entire east bay

Originally Posted by DCReid

I would argue that San Jose, CA is overlooked because of SF, even more so than Oakland being overlooked. Despite being in the middle of Silicon Valley, I don't think it has much of an identity. Oakland at least had somewhat of an identity to me - with the sports teams and the Black Power movement.

Oakland's greatest strengths--its good bones and strong economic health--are due to its proximity to San Francisco.

The reason Oakland is more than a big, generic post-war suburban blob like San Jose and much of the rest of the Bay Area is because it grew to become a fairly dense, transit- and pedestrian-oriented city before cars became the primary mode of transportation. And the reason it grew large-ish before the primacy of cars is because it was directly across the bay from a city that was devastated by the 1906 earthquake and fire. Tens of thousands of San Franciscans moved immediately to Oakland, "enlarging the city's population, increasing its housing stock, and improving its infrastructure," as per Wikipedia.

Thus, Oakland's residential neighborhoods were built around the area's extensive streetcar system, the Key System, which converged on downtown Oakland and, by the late 1930s, also ran directly from Oakland's neighborhoods into downtown San Francisco via the Bay Bridge, the precursor to today's trans-bay BART system.

Proximity to San Francisco is also responsible for modern-day Oakland's healthy economy. As San Francisco businesses and residents spill across the bay looking for more affordable space and a little extra room, Oakland became an urban center in its own right. And regionally, demand for office and residential space in inner city Oakland is supercharged, relative to the urban cores of similarly sized California municipalities like Fresno, Sacramento and Long Beach, because it offers what those others do not--a 20 minute train ride to San Francisco's CBD and cultural, retail, hospitality, and entertainment amenities.