San Francisco garage question...

[JManc]

Were the garages added later or were they always part of the house...for the original occupants to park their steam powered Teslas? Always intrigued about see them in century old buildings. This house below looks like it was added on:

[Steely Dan]

^ that example looks very 19th century to me, so the garage is almost certainly a retro-fit.

but there are probably other examples from the 1920s on that were intially built with the 1st floor/basement garages right from the start.

[Crawford]

Yeah, those look added-on. At least for pre-1920 SFHs, I bet the curb cuts and garages came later. Or horse stables were converted to garages.

[mrnyc]

looks like a modern retrofit, but maybe it was an old buggy garage and they brought the horse over from the stable when they wanted to, umm, take a turn about the town? or err, surry on down for a stoned soul picnic?

[Crawford]

Here's an example from Fort Hamilton, Brooklyn, an outer neighborhood that was developed a bit later than most:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6156...7i16384!8i8192

It appears that these 1920's-era rowhouses had basements converted to one-car garages, I think? The home on the furthest left, adjacent to the apartment building, has no garage, so I assume the curb cuts and garages were built later?

[JManc]

^ yes, there's a lot of these in Brooklyn as well. I wonder if those houses were once like this one right across the street:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6157...7i16384!8i8192

...with a basement (or downstairs apt) window facing the street and a little patio.

[sopas ej]

The garages came later. It takes a lot of money to own/care for horses, so they weren't stables, because these weren't homes for the wealthy, just the middle class--the wealthy lived in huge mansions. And who'd want to live above a smelly stable that stinks of horses and road apples? Only the wealthy kept horses at home in town, in separate stables/structures on their property. The middle/working classes took public transportation to work.

They were originally storage rooms or spare rooms. There might be a trend of restoring these San Francisco Victorians to their original "splendor," sans garage.

WSJ

From SF Gate:

Right after the 1906 earthquake.

Circa 1925. No garages here.

SF Gate

Here's the article, "Why San Francisco Victorians didn't originally have garages": https://www.sfgate.com/local/article...s-16217530.php

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by JManc

Were the garages added later or were they always part of the house...for the original occupants to park their steam powered Teslas? Always intrigued about see them in century old buildings. This house below looks like it was added on:

Indeed the garages are nearly all retrofits. I watched them raise a house and create one of these garages on Beaver St. once.

Then there's this:

• Video Link

[Crawford]

Curb cuts, at least in NYC, are extremely difficult to get approved. Nearly impossible the last few years. So rowhouses with existing curb cuts fetch a premium.

Here's a development of five townhouses, built maybe 10 years ago. The two townhouses on the left had curb cuts/garages grandfathered in, because they replaced a small parking garage entrance. So they're worth much more than the other three townhouses.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/11...!4d-73.9982171

And curb cuts in brownstone Brooklyn are extremely rare, so the owners should always get a premium.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

or err, surry on down for a stoned soul picnic?

Red yellow honey, sassafras and moonshine...

After reading your comment I have that song stuck in my head.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Here's the article, "Why San Francisco Victorians didn't originally have garages": https://www.sfgate.com/local/article...s-16217530.php

Very cool history lessen thanks. This is exactly what I was looking for.

@ Pedestrian, I saw that house covered in on some architecture blog. Pretty clever.

Originally Posted by Crawford

Curb cuts, at least in NYC, are extremely difficult to get approved.

Is this a bureaucratic thing? Historical preservation issue? Zoning?

Curb cuts back in my hometown were tough to get approved as well and $$ but that was just getting the wheels of local government to get off their ass. Homeowner was on the hook for costs if I recall. I would imagine same here in Houston but there is so much construction and remodel that approval must be much faster.

[Wigs]

as a kid I always thought it would be amazing to live in one of those SF Victorians!

[SFBruin]

Originally Posted by Wigs

as a kid I always thought it would be amazing to live in one of those SF Victorians!

Apparently, you're not the only one who thinks that, because now they sell for millions lol.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by SFBruin

Apparently, you're not the only one who thinks that, because now they sell for millions lol.

no doubt

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by JManc

Is this a bureaucratic thing? Historical preservation issue? Zoning?

All of the above. Curb cuts pretty much destroy the streetscape, because they force pedestrians to constantly look out for vehicles. Not a big deal in 99% of America, but at least in NYC, they're pretty harmful, given the pedestrian orientation.

Even new residential highrises rarely have curb cuts. The exceptions are usually those that were able to use a grandfathered curb cut from the previous structure.

[The North One]

It's kinda insane how many front street facing garages San Francisco has. Almost every home and apartment building you see them. I don't think there's any other city that has more.

If a good number of them are later additions then why did this happen there and not in other large cities?

These ones were clearly built originally with garages though.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7783...7i16384!8i8192

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

All of the above. Curb cuts pretty much destroy the streetscape, because they force pedestrians to constantly look out for vehicles. Not a big deal in 99% of America, but at least in NYC, they're pretty harmful, given the pedestrian orientation.

Even new residential highrises rarely have curb cuts. The exceptions are usually those that were able to use a grandfathered curb cut from the previous structure.

I think the bigger issue in NYC is that they take away street parking spaces. There are a few curb cuts for houses in my area. It doesn't really seem to affect the walking experience that much, but the space where the curb cut was created is no longer a public parking space.

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by The North One

It's kinda insane how many front street facing garages San Francisco has. Almost every home and apartment building you see them. I don't think there's any other city that has more.

If a good number of them are later additions then why did this happen there and not in other large cities?

These ones were clearly built originally with garages though.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7783...7i16384!8i8192

Yeah. I think of it as a good example of a pre-war environment being built for cars as well.

[tech12]

Originally Posted by The North One

Almost every home and apartment building you see them. I don't think there's any other city that has more

This is not true for the majority of buildings in the city's densest neighborhoods (Tenderloin, Chinatown), and is also less common in other neighborhoods right around downtown, like nob hill (especially the side where it meets the tenderloin). But once you get away from the downtown area, most residential buildings do have them.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by tech12

This is not true for the majority of buildings in the city's densest neighborhoods (Tenderloin, Chinatown), and is also less common in other neighborhoods right around downtown, like nob hill (especially the side where it meets the tenderloin). But once you get away from the downtown area, most residential buildings do have them.

Oh yeah it definitely gets a lot less severe near the central downtown areas where there's more retail but they're still commonly found even there.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7911...7i16384!8i8192

I just don't get how this happened, it's kinda bizarre. It's not like SF is a sunbelt city, and by US standards it's pre-war building stock is well preserved. Yet no other US city has this many street facing garages.

It's also strange to me how this usually gets completely ignored when people laud San Francisco for being an urban outlier. Like this entire street is literally just garages and driveways, it's terrible for pedestrians. And this goes on for blocks and blocks and blocks. Endless.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7488...7i13312!8i6656