SAN FRANCISCO | Projects: Under Construction, Approved, and Proposed

[craigs]

Originally Posted by bossabreezes

Great updates!

I'll be in town in May/June and was wondering what its like on the ground from a locals perspective. I've heard a lot of people saying its dooms day, apocalypse, etc- and others saying its not that bad but there are lots of closed stores/restaurants along the market/SOMA corridor.

I love SF but want to be prepared for what I see. Thanks for any input!

State restrictions are being lifted June 15th, so a lot will be open starting then. And whether May or June, dress in layers--it normally gets quite chilly and windy in the afternoon and stays chilly overnight.

[bossabreezes]

Thanks guys! Good thing to note Craigs, the first time I ever visited SF was during August, or colloquially ''Fogust'', and was pretty shocked at how cold it felt. New York in August is similar to setting yourself on fire while in a sauna.

My main concern isn't really entertainment options as it is safety. SF is kind of dicey on a good day (at least along Market/SOMA, where I'll be based) so hoping its not much worse than pre-pandemic. Pedestrian, I would appreciate an update when you return in regards to this. I'll be mainly doing client visits but might also pop into the odd gay bar (if open) lol.

Theres a chance I might relocate to the Bay Area, if that's the case then I'd be happy to provide periodic construction updates as well. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by bossabreezes

Thanks guys! Good thing to note Craigs, the first time I ever visited SF was during August, or colloquially ''Fogust'', and was pretty shocked at how cold it felt. New York in August is similar to setting yourself on fire while in a sauna.

My main concern isn't really entertainment options as it is safety. SF is kind of dicey on a good day (at least along Market/SOMA, where I'll be based) so hoping its not much worse than pre-pandemic. Pedestrian, I would appreciate an update when you return in regards to this. I'll be mainly doing client visits but might also pop into the odd gay bar (if open) lol.

Theres a chance I might relocate to the Bay Area, if that's the case then I'd be happy to provide periodic construction updates as well. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

If by “along Market” you mean what we call “Mid-Market”, i.e. Market from about 5th St to Van Ness, that’s the scariest place in San Francisco IMHO and even long-time San Franciscans avoid it (however a couple of new residential projects there are near opening and another couple of trendy hotels opened there before the pandemic so maybe it’ll improve). On the other hand, SOMA is pretty safe (except when crossing the street). It looks industrial and all that, but I feel perfectly safe walking there—safer than I do in some tourist hotspots (SF’s criminals’ favorite targets are tourists). But in any case, the best known gay bar left in SOMA, the Stud, I believe has closed. So if you’re planning on bar-hopping (if allowed), you’ll probably be mainly in the Castro.

[homebucket]

Mid-Market is sketchy at worst, but by no means is it dangerous. As long as you're not freaked out by the sight of homeless people, you'll be perfectly fine.

Exercise the same caution you would in any tourist heavy city. Don't have your face in your phone or your fancy camera dangling about. I would recommend you do this in any part of the City.

[homebucket]

Speaking of Mid-Market, here's a nice recent aerial of it. You can see some of the newer construction as well.



https://www.instagram.com/p/CNzCiWqhP8t/

[craigs]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Mid-Market is sketchy at worst, but by no means is it dangerous. As long as you're not freaked out by the sight of homeless people, you'll be perfectly fine.

Exercise the same caution you would in any tourist heavy city. Don't have your face in your phone or your fancy camera dangling about. I would recommend you do this in any part of the City.

Agreed on all counts. I rode my bike to and from work along Market Street for over a decade and never had any issues with crime. I would say the Tenderloin is more dangerous and also has more homeless these days. And any New Yorker should be just fine going about their business in San Francisco as long as he is paying attention to what's going on around him.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Mid-Market is sketchy at worst, but by no means is it dangerous. As long as you're not freaked out by the sight of homeless people, you'll be perfectly fine.

Exercise the same caution you would in any tourist heavy city. Don't have your face in your phone or your fancy camera dangling about. I would recommend you do this in any part of the City.

Not sketchy . . . unless you count the several shootings there, one in front of a Subway sandwich shop I used to occasionally frequent (and in which one of the local derelicts amused himself by throwing things at me), now closed partly on account of the violence. More recently there was this: S.F. police shoot man, armed with knife, on Market Street] in the same area. And not far away, but also on Mid-Market, just weeks ago this: Man accused of assaulting 2 Asians in S.F. was beaten before attack, lawyer says. I really have not heard of this kind of thing occurring with such regularity in the Tenderloin.

Yeah, you'll probably be fine. I actually do walk there all the time and like the burritos at Can-Cun (and I used to work near Market and 7th . . . and survived), but I've been hassled by more derelicts on that stretch than anywhere else and for amusement, when I worked in the methadone clinic there, we used to watch some of the clients selling drugs across the street in UN Plaza (also probably the city's main bazaar for stolen goods).

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by craigs

Agreed on all counts. I rode my bike to and from work along Market Street for over a decade and never had any issues with crime. I would say the Tenderloin is more dangerous and also has more homeless these days. And any New Yorker should be just fine going about their business in San Francisco as long as he is paying attention to what's going on around him.

The Tenderloin only looks more dangerous. It's mostly the home of a lot of immigrant families these days (and I say that in spite of having almost been shot as the innocent victim of a drive-by on Turk St. once). Again, when I was in the heroin treatment biz, I knew quite a few of the folks I would see hanging in the Tenderloin--my main clinic was there--and actually felt pretty safe knowing they would look out for me (these were users, not vicious sellers). There certainly are some dicey corners--Golden Gate & Hyde is one. But overall, the Tenderloin is the home of more good restaurants and markets (and a few great dive bars in better times) than reasons to be scared, at least in the daytime. At night I would not walk around there or on Mid-Market alone.

I knew what they were up to on Market and in the Loin, which you wouldn't notice riding by on a bike (these people don't run into the street to menace bike riders and drivers) because they would tell me, quite frankly. The thing, though, that makes Market scarier than the Tenderloin is the 2 BART stations, especially Civic Center. Those are where the Oakland drug dealers come to the surface from their trip under the Bay. That's why the biggest heroin markets are near there (and the 2 BART stations in the Mission are active too).

I will agree with one thing you said: any New Yorker should have street smarts to spot and avoid trouble in San Francisco although I sadly have to admit that the last several times I was in New York everybody seemed friendly and nice (and benign) compared to what's on the Streets of San Francisco the days.

[timbad]

if it is personal safety you are concerned about, you were mostly better off in 2020 than a year prior in SF, according to the Chron this last week



anecdotally, on my most recent walk I had a palpable sense of things gradually returning to normal, with more people doing things indoors and seemingly more places open overall.

I have never had any cause to fear for my safety while walking in SF.

[Ptah]

Homeless and drug addicts are all over downtown SF because the city government tolerates them. Once in a while the cops make a sweep to disperse them, but they always come back to their old hang outs. That said, walking around downtown is still generally safe in all my experience. These days I am more worried when I need to leave my car on the streets!

Still, I would always tell visiting family and friends to be cautious when walking around Mid Market (Market Street between 5th and 9th Streets) and Tenderloin (area bounded by O'Farrell-Taylor-Market-Polk Streets). These downtown areas have always been sketchy for as long as I can remember, but this has never stopped me from getting my banh mi fix at Saigon Sandwich

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by Ptah

Homeless and drug addicts are all over downtown SF because the city government tolerates them. Once in a while the cops make a sweep to disperse them, but they always come back to their old hang outs. That said, walking around downtown is still generally safe in all my experience. These days I am more worried when I need to leave my car on the streets!

Still, I would always tell visiting family and friends to be cautious when walking around Mid Market (Market Street between 5th and 9th Streets) and Tenderloin (area bounded by O'Farrell-Taylor-Market-Polk Streets). These downtown areas have always been sketchy for as long as I can remember, but this has never stopped me from getting my banh mi fix at Saigon Sandwich

Fair point. I think car break ins are more of a concern than actual assault.

[tall/awkward]

Nice pic. Always liked the Barroque looking dome on the building to the left.

[viewguysf]

Originally Posted by tall/awkward

Nice pic. Always liked the Barroque looking dome on the building to the left.

That’s the Humboldt Bank building.

[iamfishhead]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Fair point. I think car break ins are more of a concern than actual assault.

Yeah, if you look at crime statistics, SF is safer than many other cities then you might think, at least in terms of assault and other violent crimes. SF does not do well with other cities with respect to vandalism and car break ins.

The data is pretty much in line with my experience. Nobody, including the homeless are likely to injure you, but be careful of someone breaking into your car.

[tech12]

Originally Posted by iamfishhead

Yeah, if you look at crime statistics, SF is safer than many other cities then you might think, at least in terms of assault and other violent crimes.

It's true that there are cities with more violent crime than SF. But the majority of US cities do better than SF, not worse.

Of the 100 largest US cities in 2017, SF had a higher total violent crime rate than 60 of them. Ranked just below Miami (another famously safe city, right?), and was worse-off than the following, in descending order:

San Antonio
Corpus Christi
St Petersburg
Denver
Sacramento
Reno
Des Moines
Boston
Long Beach
Pittsburgh
St. Paul
Omaha
Louisville
Seattle
Jacksonville
Spokane
Las Vegas
Aurora
Fresno
Fort Worth
Norfolk
New York
Colorado Springs
Arlington
Portland
Columbus
Jersey City
Riverside
Santa Ana
Glendale
Bakersfield
Tampa
Savannah
Chesapeake
Mesa
Austin
San Jose
El Paso
Madison
San Diego
Fort Wayne
Anaheim
Laredo
Lexington
Garland
Chula Vista
Boise
Chandler
Honolulu
Irving
Hialeah
Henderson
Fremont
Santa Clarita
Scottsdale
Plano
Virginia Beach
Gilbert
Irvine

SF is great, but it's funny to see the alternate reality that some people inhabit, where it's actually a super safe city with low violent crime by US standards. You're thinking of Honolulu or Boise. Not SF lol

Not to mention that safety changes depending on the person. A young latino or black person in SF is going to be much more in danger of a random assault (or even murder) than a typical white person. Just like someone who zips through a sketchy area on their bike (or by car) is far less likely to have trouble than a person who goes through on foot, or who actually lives there.

SF does rank relatively well for assault, murder and rape, and ranks worse than 30-35% of the 100 largest cities.

Robbery however is also a violent crime, and one that affects upper class people to a larger degree than assaults and murders. In fact the robbery rate is the main reason SF's total violent crime rate is relatively high. Just by robbery rate, SF was worse than 80% of the 100 largest cities. That's number 20 on the list, right in between Newark, NJ, and Washington DC. Worse than New Orleans, Dallas, Los Angeles, Long Beach, Atlanta, Nashville, Toledo, Pittsburgh, NYC, Jersey City, etc, etc. Does SF really sound particularly safe here, by American standards?

And as for property crime, in 2017 SF was the 2nd worst in the entire nation, fueled mostly by car break ins and bike thefts, which spiked greatly in recent years. Though they dropped back down due to covid-19, while burglaries then spiked.

By the way, shooting victims in SF are up 181% so far this year compared to 2020.

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

The thing, though, that makes Market scarier than the Tenderloin is the 2 BART stations, especially Civic Center. Those are where the Oakland drug dealers come to the surface from their trip under the Bay. That's why the biggest heroin markets are near there (and the 2 BART stations in the Mission are active too).

ahh yes, lets imply that Oakland is to blame for the worst crime. As if the Tenderloin and Mission districts (and other parts of SF) don't have lots of drug dealers living in them. Or perhaps the implication is that Oakland drug dealers are some kind of extra scary and dangerous breed of drug dealer lol

[Mimol742]

Originally Posted by tech12

It's true that there are cities with more violent crime than SF. But the majority of US cities do better than SF, not worse.

Not to mention that safety changes depending on the person. A young latino or black person in SF is going to be much more in danger of a random assault (or even murder) than a typical white person. Just like someone who zips through a sketchy area on their bike (or by car) is far less likely to have trouble than a person who goes through on foot, or who actually lives there.

A young Latino or Black person are more In danger In San Francisco? How come?

[craigs]

Originally Posted by tech12

SF is great, but it's funny to see the alternate reality that some people inhabit, where it's actually a super safe city with low violent crime by US standards. You're thinking of Honolulu or Boise. Not SF lol

Holy straw man, exactly who are these people who inhabit an alternate reality San Francisco that is "super safe" and crime free? I think we've all been reasonable in explaining to a New Yorker that he should be fine on his visit to SF so long as he pays attention to what is going on around him. Do you disagree?

[gillynova]

Originally Posted by tech12

By the way, shooting victims in SF are up 181% so far this year compared to 2020.

Well, we were locked down and majority of us didn't go outside for majority of 2020 so that data is skewed.

But I generally do feel safe walking around San Francisco (SoMA, Mission Bay, Golden Gate Park, Crissy Fields, Sutro Baths/Richmond, Bernal Heights etc) but I'm always worried about my car whenever I leave it. I always hide my stuff in my trunk BEFORE my parking anywhere just incase.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by gillynova

Well, we were locked down and majority of us didn't go outside for majority of 2020 so that data is skewed.

But I generally do feel safe walking around San Francisco (SoMA, Mission Bay, Golden Gate Park, Crissy Fields, Sutro Baths/Richmond, Bernal Heights etc) but I'm always worried about my car whenever I leave it. I always hide my stuff in my trunk BEFORE my parking anywhere just incase.

Golden Gate Park is a hot spot. Really any busy, touristy area will be targeted for car break ins. Dolores, Alamo Square, Pier 39/Fisherman's Wharf, etc.

I will add that one thing that I used to do that I no longer feel personally safe doing is taking photographs from Twin Peaks at night. To me, that is more risky than walking down Mid-Market.

[timbad]

Originally Posted by timbad

...
anecdotally, on my most recent walk I had a palpable sense of things gradually returning to normal, with more people doing things indoors and seemingly more places open overall. ...

apparently, not just me... (from Nextdoor)