Sports in Canadian culture - Page 388

JMSRead2020 · #**7741** Posted **Apr 26, 2021, 8:21 PM**

Based on NFL ratings, and anecdotally, the number of Torontonians I know who follow the NFL, I think there would be quite an appetite for an NFL team here. The Bills things was a disaster obviously, but I think that had more to do with how terribly it was priced, pitched and organized.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

Absolutely. It may as well not exist.

Are we talking about Toronto the city or MLSE? I don't think there's much of an appetite for an NFL team but MLSE has probably poked around more than once.

I don't understand your NHL comment. The NHL has existed in Canada for over a century due in part to more than just Toronto.

khabibulin · #**7742** Posted **Apr 27, 2021, 12:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by khabibulin

Canada's Brooke Henderson captured her 10th career LPGA title on Saturday with a 4-under 67 in the final round of the LA Open.

The 23-year-old from Smiths Falls, Ont., owns more wins than any other Canadian on either the LPGA or PGA tours.

The win is Henderson's first since 2019, when she broke a tie with Sandra Post on the LPGA tour to claim her 9th title and sole possession of the Canadian record, moving ahead of George Knudson and Mike Weir who each have eight.

Only 23 years old and already the greatest golfer in Canadian history. Here's hoping she remains in the top ten on the LPGA for decades to come.

Nicko999 · #**7743** Posted **Apr 30, 2021, 3:22 AM**

Only GP on the F1 calender to be cancelled is... Canada.

Somehow all the world is able to organize it's GP except Canada. Bunch of lunatics. I heard Montreal health officials said no.
We're looking more and more like North Korea.

JHikka · #**7744** Posted **Apr 30, 2021, 3:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko999

Only GP on the F1 calender to be cancelled is... Canada.

China.

kel · #**7745** Posted **Apr 30, 2021, 9:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko999

Only GP on the F1 calender to be cancelled is... Canada.

Somehow all the world is able to organize it's GP except Canada. Bunch of lunatics. I heard Montreal health officials said no.
We're looking more and more like North Korea.

When you have the lunatics (Liberals/NDP)running the asylum is it any surprise? .

jamincan · #**7746** Posted **Apr 30, 2021, 10:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kel

When you have the lunatics (Liberals/NDP)running the asylum is it any surprise? .

I'm sorry, what asylum are the NDP running?

rousseau · #**7747** Posted **May 8, 2021, 6:31 AM**

So basically, Ontario is the world's epicentre for giving birth to great hockey players, right?

Let's use top 40 career goals as a metric of comparison (https://www.hockey-reference.com/lea...ls_career.html). Not only is The Great One from just down the road from where I grew up (and I almost played against his younger brother Keith once, but I missed that game, to my eternal chagrin), but a lot of other great ones come from this neck of the woods too. What stands out is a dearth of representation from the Maritimes, though Sidney Crosby should rectify that in the near future. Bit surprised that Manitoba doesn't have any representatives in the top 40, to be honest.

Looks like Ontario is the top-ranked incubator for individual player success, and Quebec is a clear second while also being the all-time leader when it comes to team success (i.e. the Canadiens).

Ontario
Wayne Gretzky
Brett Hull
Phil Esposito
Mike Gartner
Brendan Shanahan
Dave Andreychuk
Bobby Hull
Dino Ciccarelli
Joe Nieuwendyk
Ron Francis
Stan Mikita
Frank Mahovlich
Pat Verbeek
Dale Hawerchuk

Quebec
Marcel Dionne
Mario Lemieux
Luc Robitaille
Mike Bossy
Guy Lafleur
Michel Goulet
Maurice Richard
Pierre Turgeon

Alberta
Mark Messier
Jarome Iginla
John Bucyk

British Columbia
Steve Yzerman
Joe Sakic
Mark Recchi

Saskatchewan
Gordie Howe
Patrick Marleau
Bryan Trottier

United States
Mike Modano
Keith Tkachuk
Jeremy Roenick

Czechoslovakia
Jaromir Jagr
Marian Hossa

Finland
Teemu Selanne
Jari Kurri

Russia
Alex Ovechkin

Sweden
Mats Sundin

esquire · #**7748** Posted **May 8, 2021, 3:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rousseau

Bit surprised that Manitoba doesn't have any representatives in the top 40, to be honest.

Looks like Theo Fleury is the highest ranking Manitoban at 58th (technically born in SK but grew up in MB).

The top ranked Manitoba born player is the Riverton Rifle, Reggie Leach in 120th place. Bobby Clarke and Jonathan Toews are surprisingly far down the list at 141 and 158, respectively.

When I was a kid in the 80s and 90s, the most prominent Manitoban NHLers were goalies and defensemen (James Patrick, Ron Hextall, Ed Belfour). Carson Lambos from Winnipeg is considered a blue chip prospect in this year's NHL draft and... he's a defenceman. I'm not sure why that is.

No question that Toronto stands alone in terms of producing NHL players. It has a critical mass of talent that no one can match.

Denscity · #**7749** Posted **May 8, 2021, 3:24 PM**

Is that the old person list?

megadude · #**7750** Posted **May 8, 2021, 4:13 PM**

I was actually thinking about this yesterday.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but surely there would be more QC players if back in the day there were the same number of games played in a season as most of these guys.

Anyway, I saw highlights of Connor Bedard from North Van. and it dawned on me that it's about time Van and BC start catching up. He's the first exceptional status player in the WHL. He's projected to be one of those all time greats 15 years from now.

It seems BC is delayed in sporting terms. I'm no Canadian history buff but I imagine it's like that in many metrics, being the furthest province from the start of Canadian society.

Given it is third in population with the #3 city as well, you expect a higher number of star athletes, but laid back west coast culture plays a role in that.

Having said that, they have that baseball culture and have produced I'd guess the second most Canadian players and Canada's second HOFer. They also have the greatest baller of all time. And they're starting to put more guys in the NFL. Though they really should be producing more soccer players and athletes from several other sports. But again, that may be due to laid back west coast culture.

Atlantic Canada doesn't surprise me due to the overall lack of sporting culture or success. But with Sid being the best players over the last 15+ years, that's quite the outlier achievement. Though this is something that happens a lot in sports in terms of birthplace or race. Examples being Davies in soccer (AB), Nash in bball (BC), Woods in golf, Hamilton in F1, Serena in tennis, Federer in tennis (CH) and so on.

Manitoba does surprise me because it seems to have those conditions that are productive to pumping out a lot of hockey players and eventually some great ones like SK. And SK produces a lot of coaches too for some reason.

Denscity · #**7751** Posted **May 8, 2021, 5:19 PM**

Also remember BC's 2 largest cities had/have zero frozen ponds and back yard rinks to play on. That's why Vancouver had Canada's first artificial ice rink.
There are lots of exceptional BC athletes of recent vintage but I can only remember a few:

Basketball: Steve Nash
Soccer: The top female scorer on earth ever. Forget her name.
NFL: That guy from Abbotsford who has a rookie record for the Steelers.
Golf: 2 guys from Abbotsford and one from Merrit? Adam Hadwin, Taylor ...
Baseball: 7 guys (?) made it to the big leagues. Several names I don't remember besides Hall of Famer Larry Walker lol. Jason Bay ...
Tennis: Vasik Posposil - fairly good at singles but had more luck with doubles AFAIK.
Hockey: Many names of late including the young phenom mentioned earlier who is only 15. Plus Montreal's 3 best players Price, Weber and the smaller feisty guy. And Sakic, ...

BC is better at individual sports than any other province it seems: Skiing, snowboarding, skateboarding, mountain biking, surfing, bmxing, etc. Thanks quite a bit to the Westcoast sporting culture coming up from California.

megadude · #**7752** Posted **May 8, 2021, 6:55 PM**

Yes I should have mentioned where BC has success in individual sports more tailored to their geography and climate.

rousseau · #**7753** Posted **May 8, 2021, 7:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

No question that Toronto stands alone in terms of producing NHL players. It has a critical mass of talent that no one can match.

Hold on, there. I think Montreal would have something to say about that. Especially when it comes to goaltenders.

Actually, I think it would be interesting to do a comparison of Toronto and Montreal when it comes to all-time great goaltenders. I think Montreal would come out ahead.

rousseau · #**7754** Posted **May 8, 2021, 7:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity

Also remember BC's 2 largest cities had/have zero frozen ponds and back yard rinks to play on. That's why Vancouver had Canada's first artificial ice rink.
There are lots of exceptional BC athletes of recent vintage but I can only remember a few:

Basketball: Steve Nash
Soccer: The top female scorer on earth ever. Forget her name.
NFL: That guy from Abbotsford who has a rookie record for the Steelers.
Golf: 2 guys from Abbotsford and one from Merrit? Adam Hadwin, Taylor ...
Baseball: 7 guys (?) made it to the big leagues. Several names I don't remember besides Hall of Famer Larry Walker lol. Jason Bay ...
Tennis: Vasik Posposil - fairly good at singles but had more luck with doubles AFAIK.
Hockey: Many names of late including the young phenom mentioned earlier who is only 15. Plus Montreal's 3 best players Price, Weber and the smaller feisty guy. And Sakic, ...

BC is better at individual sports than any other province it seems: Skiing, snowboarding, skateboarding, mountain biking, surfing, bmxing, etc. Thanks quite a bit to the Westcoast sporting culture coming up from California.

You could spare us the huffy, irrelevant list. BC has three among the 40 all-time career goal-scorers, same as Alberta and Saskatchewan. Nothing unusual or unexpected about that.

megadude · #**7755** Posted **May 8, 2021, 9:01 PM**

True about Price and Weber. Within a decade or so they will be added to the list of BC HOFers (5 year wait after retirement). These two are gaining BC some of that momentum.

Duncan Keith was born in Winnipeg but grew up mostly in NWO and then a little bit in BC, in Penticton. He'll probably end up in the HOF.

Cam Neely just came to mind for BC. He grew up in Maple Ridge. His career was cut short or he easily could have been in the 500 goal club.

isaidso · #**7756** Posted **May 8, 2021, 10:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rousseau

So basically, Ontario is the world's epicentre for giving birth to great hockey players, right?

In absolute terms but per capita don't people usually point to Saskatchewan? That said, I'm more interested in Canada stacking up well in the table below. It's 5 years old but if California has 46, Canada would need to produce roughly the same number. 18 from Ontario, 11 from Quebec, 14 from the West, 3 from AC? Maybe in 5 years we can get up to 40 Canadian NBA players then bump it further to 60 by the end of the decade.

https://ussporthistory.com/2018/05/1...fs-roundtable/

Denscity · #**7757** Posted **May 8, 2021, 11:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rousseau

You could spare us the huffy, irrelevant list. BC has three among the 40 all-time career goal-scorers, same as Alberta and Saskatchewan. Nothing unusual or unexpected about that.

Vancouver and Victoria are too warm for ice.

esquire · #**7758** Posted **May 9, 2021, 1:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rousseau

Hold on, there. I think Montreal would have something to say about that. Especially when it comes to goaltenders.

Maybe historically, but these days Toronto (the broader GTA and surrounding area) have to stand alone.

Djeffery · #**7759** Posted **May 9, 2021, 2:33 AM**

If you are going to use "incubator" for Ontario, then Brett Hull doesn't really belong there. Other than birthplace, nothing about Ontario "incubated" his hockey success. I'm sure a deeper dive might show a few other examples of players raised elsewhere from their birthplaces. I wonder what an analysis of Hall of Famers would show other than obviously widening the category beyond purely goal scorers.

JHikka · #**7760** Posted **May 10, 2021, 2:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rousseau

Let's use top 40 career goals as a metric of comparison

This metric ignores defensemen, goalies, and players whose specialty is not scoring goals.

Still, Ontario is more-or-less the centre of Canadian hockey players these days, yes. Alberta and British Columbia have made some ground, Quebec has lost relevancy, and the Maritimes pump out the occasional very good player. Ontario dominates, though. ON represents nearly 50% of all points by Canadians this season in what is diminishing numbers for Canadian representation across the league. I don't think ON's been below 40% since the 90s when Quebec was developing more players than today.

Something that crossed my mind a few weeks ago and I think has more relevance is where hockey players come from. Players from previous generations came from small, working-class towns, and that reflected in the sport itself. Now most players come from suburbs from much wealthier backgrounds. Speaks volumes to where the sport is in this country these days.