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  #621  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2022, 6:31 PM
Docere Docere is online now
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It looks like around 140,000 Jews live on the Westside (1/4 of the Jewish population of LA County). So it looks like the Westside is about 1/4 Jewish (population of 529,000 according to Wikipedia). The City of Beverly Hills is majority-Jewish.
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  #622  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2022, 12:43 AM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docere View Post
It looks like around 140,000 Jews live on the Westside (1/4 of the Jewish population of LA County). So it looks like the Westside is about 1/4 Jewish (population of 529,000 according to Wikipedia). The City of Beverly Hills is majority-Jewish.
2020 beverly hills pop. is 32,701. thats a lotta hype for not many people!
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  #623  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2022, 1:39 AM
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About 20,000 of whom are Jewish.
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  #624  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2022, 5:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docere View Post
It looks like around 140,000 Jews live on the Westside (1/4 of the Jewish population of LA County). So it looks like the Westside is about 1/4 Jewish (population of 529,000 according to Wikipedia). The City of Beverly Hills is majority-Jewish.
Using the 709K estimate, 20% of GLA Jews live on the Westside — significantly less than the common perception. For comparison's sake, Brooklyn is home to 22-23% of GNYC's Jewish population, and Brooklyn accounts for 11.6% of GNYC's total population — roughly double the Westside's apportionment of GLA.

I'm curious to know why they were willing to study the high desert but not all of Ventura County, considering their 2020 report estimated about 41,000 Jews living there. Ventura city has one chabad and two synagogues, a relatively dense concentration relative to geographic area; Ojai has one chabad and one synagogue. We can infer that there's a sizable Jewish presence probably in the thousands.
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  #625  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2022, 2:46 AM
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I took a closer look and played with some numbers, and am pretty convinced at this point that the 709K figure that Brandeis put out in their 2020 report is an underestimate.

Brandeis and UofC's 2021 local community study focuses on a catchment area with a population of approximately 7,062,500. That catchment area excludes the non-Conejo Valley portion of Ventura County, which has a population of about 410,000. Here are some numbers* from Statistical Atlas:


Ventura (109,067)
2.1% Polish
1.7% European
1.3% Russian

5,561 (5.1%)


Ojai (7,581)
4.1% European
2.3% Polish
1.1% Lithuanian
0.9% Eastern European

646 (8.5%)


Mira Monte (6,864)
3.5% European
3.0% Polish
2.1% Russian
1.5% Romanian

691 (10.1%)


Oak View (4,472)
3.5% Russian
3.4% European
3.0% Polish
0.8% Austrian
0.7% Latvian

508 (11.4%)


Saticoy (9,487)
3.1% Polish
1.6% Russian
1.2% European
0.7% Hungarian

624 (6.6%)


Oxnard (204,752)
0.8% European

1,638 (0.8%)


Port Hueneme (22,126)
1.5% Polish
1.2% European
0.6% Russian

728 (3.3%)


Channel Islands Beach (2,954)
4.9% European
2.0% Russian
1.8% Austrian
1.6% Polish
1.6% Hungarian
1.4% Czech

391 (13.2%)


10,787 / 367,303 (2.9%)


* Obviously there are a number of issues: double counting; the fact that not everyone with the reported ancestries is Jewish; other "Jewish proxy" ancestries are missing; some Jews may fall under "German," "Unclassified," "Other," or "American;" and some municipalities and unincorporated areas I left out.

Nevertheless, the results of the experiment are more or less in line with the hypothesis, which was that Jews in this area (home to about half of Ventura County) likely represent anywhere from 2.5-3.5% of the population, Ventura County being about 4.9% Jewish as a whole. I think after weighing all the factors, 2.9% Jewish feels about right. When you add in the other 40,000 in the other communities, the percentage certainly drops. But even with the lower bound 2.5%, you're still talking 10,250 Jews.

After that, you're left with 3.33 million in the SGV and the Gateway Cities. Brandeis is set to release their report on Long Beach very soon, but it's been estimated that the Long Beach area is home to 20-25K Jews, including in western OC communities like Rossmoor and Los Alamitos. For the SGV, 30-40K has been floated around (but that also includes upland and Rancho Cucamonga, I think).

Using those old estimates and a lower-bound total of 50K, that comes out to about 1.5% Jewish. I'm kind of unsure about these figures since there's really no established Jewish community in this geography other than the Bixby Knolls area of Long Beach. The Inland Empire is only 1.1% Jewish, but it does have the Coachella Valley. On the other hand, the part of LA County in question is significantly smaller in population. If we assume a Jewish apportionment of 1.1%, that's 37,000 Jews.


SO...

565,000 (catchment area)
87,000 (OC)
51,000 (IE)

703,000

+ 10-12K (Ventura, Oxnard, Ojai and Santa Clara River Valleys)
+ 37-50K (SGV and Gateway Cities)

Total: 750-765K Jews


One thing is clear... If the 2021 study estimate is correct, then the 2020 report clearly undercounts Greater LA's Jewish population because there is no way that there are only 6,000 extra Jews among the outstanding 3.75 million population — only 0.16% Jewish. Yeah... no. Looking forward to the study on Long Beach!
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Last edited by Quixote; Aug 6, 2022 at 3:14 AM.
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  #626  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2022, 5:12 AM
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I wish these studies, whether national or local, would delve into Jewish identity vis-a-vis how they classify themselves in the census. It would be interesting to see how many Jewish New Yorkers select "German," which is the third largest European ancestry group in Manhattan not too far behind Irish and Italian. In Nassau County, the fact that the German population is larger than the Polish and Russian populations combined is also telling.

Back to LA, I didn't realize that of the 125,000 Iranians that live in the CSA, only about 20% of them are Jewish (if the 2021 study is correct). Equally surprising is the finding that Hebrew is spoken in more households than Farsi, and that 27,500 have Israeli citizenship. Unless Greater NYC has 82,500 Israeli passports (which would mean the Israeli-born population being outnumbered by those born outside Israel — unlikely)... it's pretty fair (and cool) to think that Israeli/Mizrahi culture defines LA Jewry more than in NYC, where Eastern European / Ashkenazim is dominant. A contiguous Israeli community of about 6,750 lives in Valley Glen, Valley Village, Studio City, Sherman Oaks, Encino, Tarzana, Woodland Hills, and West Hills — population 380,000. That's more Israelis than in each of Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Nassau County — all of which have substantially larger total populations.
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  #627  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2022, 11:50 PM
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Scarsdale NY

Russian 11%
Italian 8.9%
German 7.6%
Irish 7.4%
Polish 6.7%
Eastern European 6.5%
American 5.9%
English 3.3%
French 2.1%
Greek 2%

Beachwood OH

Russian 10.4%
German 9.8%
Polish 7.2%
American 6.5%
Eastern European 6.2%
Hungarian 5.8%
Irish 5.1%
English 3.7%
Italian 2.1%
Romanian 2.1%

Beverly Hills CA

Iranian 25.7%
Russian 8.6%
German 6.2%
Polish 6.1%
English 4%
Italian 3.5%
Irish 3.5%
American 3.1%
French 2.7%
Arab 2.7%
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  #628  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2022, 11:54 PM
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Ancestry of Canadian Jews:

Polish 40%
Russian 37%
Jewish 33%
Eastern European 19%
Romanian 12%
Ukrainian 9%
Lithuanian 8%
Hungarian 8%
German 8%
Austrian 5%
Canadian 4%
British 4%
English 4%
Moroccan 3%
Israeli 3%
French 3%

https://www.environicsinstitute.org/...rsn=5f5a8e4d_2
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  #629  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2022, 12:10 AM
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Given there's no "Jewish" option in the US census, the ancestry question is "complicated." The distinction between "Russian", "Polish", "Romanian" etc. isn't really that meaningful, given that borders changed and people moved more than once. Yiddish-speaking Eastern European Jews were really one ethnic group (hence the high number of generic "Eastern European" responses).
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  #630  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2022, 12:35 AM
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How does a descendant of Volga German Jews answer the Census ancestry question? There are a number of plausible answers. Eastern European ethnics are tough, due to the constantly shifting borders and identities, and historically, the relative lack of ethnic homogeneity.
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  #631  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2022, 12:41 AM
Elkhanan1 Elkhanan1 is offline
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I've never heard of the existence of Volga German Jews unless you're joking...
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  #632  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2022, 12:57 AM
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Volga German Jews?
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  #633  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2022, 1:09 AM
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Upper West Side vs. Upper East Side

It's interesting how substantially more UESiders claim "American" ancestry compared to their counterparts across Central Park. I thought that was a theme among Orthodox communities? Apparently not in Manhattan.


Upper West Side (70,500 Jews as of 2011)

Russian-speaking households: 7%

Orthodox: 13%
Conservative: 20%
Reform: 21%
Non-denominational: 16%
Secular: 31%

10% German
9.1% Irish
7.0% Russian
6.6% Italian
6.4% English
6.1% American
5.4% Polish
4.3% Eastern European
2.8% French
1.8% European
1.5% Scottish
1.4% British
1.2% Hungarian
1.2% Austrian
1.1% West Indian
1.1% Dutch
1.0% Arab
0.8% Swedish


Upper East Side (57,400 Jews as of 2011)

Russian-speaking households: > 1%

Orthodox: 9%
Conservative: 18%
Reform: 40%
Non-denominational: 8%
Secular: 26%

American 13.6%
Irish 10.2%
Italian 9.7%
German 9.3%
Russian 7.5%
Polish 6.3%
English 5.3%
French 3.4%
Eastern European 2.5%
European 2.3%
Austrian 1.4%
Hungarian 1.3%
Greek 1.3%
Scottish 1.3%
Arab 1.1%
Swedish 1.0%
British 0.9%
Ukrainian 0.9%
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  #634  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2022, 1:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Elkhanan1 View Post
I've never heard of the existence of Volga German Jews unless you're joking...
There were German Jewish settlements within the larger Volga German community. In any case, regardless of Jewish or Gentile, their ancestry could be Russian, German or Eastern European.

At least their national boundaries never changed, unlike the German and German Jewish communities to the west.
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  #635  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2022, 1:17 AM
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Why are you assuming "German" and "American" responses are mostly Jewish?
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  #636  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2022, 1:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
Upper West Side vs. Upper East Side

It's interesting how substantially more UESiders claim "American" ancestry compared to their counterparts across Central Park. I thought that was a theme among Orthodox communities? Apparently not in Manhattan.
There aren't that many Orthodox in Manhattan, and most would be Modern Orthodox. In any case, UWS Jews are more observant than the UES. Culturally, UWS feels Jewish, UES still feels WASP.
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  #637  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2022, 1:18 AM
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The Yorkville portion of the UES also had a pretty substantial non-Jewish German and Eastern European community until relatively recently. You still see the remnants around Second Avenue & 86th Street, which has a few German bakeries, restaurants and bars.

Yorkville was a working class European ethnic community until the elevated lines were torn down along 2nd and 3rd Ave. after WW2. Then the highrises went up and Yorkville was subsumed into the larger UES. Now, there's little distinction, except for a few legacy businesses.
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  #638  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2022, 1:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
There aren't that many Orthodox in Manhattan, and most would be Modern Orthodox. In any case, UWS Jews are more observant than the UES. Culturally, UWS feels Jewish, UES still feels WASP.
Evident in the numbers posted. UES is Reform-dominated, UWS is more of a hodgepodge.
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  #639  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2022, 1:29 AM
Elkhanan1 Elkhanan1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Ancestry of Canadian Jews:

Polish 40%
Russian 37%
Jewish 33%
Eastern European 19%
Romanian 12%
Ukrainian 9%
Lithuanian 8%
Hungarian 8%
German 8%
Austrian 5%
Canadian 4%
British 4%
English 4%
Moroccan 3%
Israeli 3%
French 3%

https://www.environicsinstitute.org/...rsn=5f5a8e4d_2
As a member of the tribe, I think the results need further explanation. For example, I'd imagine that the 40% of Canadian Jews who identify as "Polish" probably wouldn't consider themselves ethnic Poles but rather ethnic Jews with roots in Poland. I'd say the same applies to the rest of the classifications except Israeli, maybe Morocco and probably French.

Given Morocco's particular history, it's possible that some Moroccan Jews would, in fact, consider themselves ethnic Moroccans, not merely ethnic Jews of Moroccan descent. Maybe both apply.

Also, French isn't supposed to be an ethnic identity but rather a civic one so that's different too. It would be easier for Jews to identify with a civic French identity than an ethnic one.

I believe more meaningful classifications for Canadian Jews taking an ancestry survey would be:

~ Ashkenazi (Western Europe, Central Europe, Eastern Europe, Israel)
~ Sephardi (Western Europe, Southern Europe, Mediterranean Basin, North Africa, Israel)
~ Mizrahi (North Africa and the Middle East, Israel)
~ Israeli (All of the above and even more Jewish classifications or none of the above, depending on the Israeli you're talking to)
~ Jewish (All of the above and even more Jewish classifications)
~ Canadian (All of the above and even more Jewish classifications)

This is all pretty complicated given the long vicissitudes of Jewish history. These types of surveys / censuses almost never capture the complexity behind the numbers. Often they create more confusion, which may be the case here.
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  #640  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2022, 1:36 AM
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I'm aware of that. Nobody Jewish says "I'm Polish", though they might describe their ancestors as Polish Jews. This is from the Canadian Jewish population survey by Professor Robert Brym at the University of Toronto, a leading scholar of Canadian Jewry, which has an origins question.
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