PHILADELPHIA | Two Cathedral Square | 470 FT | 34 FLOORS

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

To be fair, Catholics are historically rich as well.

Yes, but the Archdiocese of Philadelphia is cash strapped, which is why they've been selling off a ton of properties in the city and around the region, as well as developing this parcel.

[hammersklavier]

Here's what I said in the main thread:

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

This is pretty impressive, all things considered. I was dubious from the beginning that the Archdiocese office building would come down (isn't the whole point of this endeavor to maximize their income from the property? In which case demolition of a perfectly serviceable extant office building and concomitant relocation of the offices it holds elsewhere, and the expense that incurs, runs contrary with this plan's ultimate goals).

I'm not really sold on the building's site orientation -- the apartment lobby will be facing the cathedral's back wall, and the apartment building's backside sits along 17th across the street from the Definitely-Not-A-Sheraton (TM) and next to the Archdiocese offices -- and I'm also dubious that the extensive landscaping they have planned is quite sufficient to make up for it. But that's my only real quibble with what's been presented here.

Also the site maps made me appreciate just how big the lawn next to the cathedral at 18th and Race is. I hope that doing something with that comes into the picture once Phase 2 comes to fruition.

Originally Posted by Boku

Inga is already ripping this on Twitter, lol

No offense, but Inga wouldn't recognize good design if it bit her on the ass.

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Don't know what everyone is complaining about... this looks great. Better than anything Cecil Baker has put out recently, that's for sure.

It actually has that generic Cecil Baker feel IMO. It's hard for me to tell the difference between this project and the one Cecil Baker's doing up on North Broad. But then I never really bought into this site's rampant Cecil Baker hate, so I'm fine with that.

[Jawnadelphia]

SCB was also the architect for Baltimore's 500 foot luxury apartment (44 floors) - 414 Light Street that opened in 2018, $160 mil cost. It's an apartment building. Just saying if Baltimore is getting this for luxury apartment new construction - Philly should be getting even better IMO.


https://forum.skyscraperpage.com/sho...=212200&page=3

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

SCB was also the architect for Baltimore's 500 foot luxury apartment (44 floors) - 414 Light Street that opened in 2018, $160 mil cost. It's an apartment building. Just saying if Baltimore is getting this for luxury apartment new construction - Philly should be getting even better IMO.

It’s not as expensive to build in Baltimore. Philly is almost as expensive as NYC to build in with half the returns.

Also, look what they’re getting for rents at 414 Light Street - about the same as what you can get in Philly with lower construction costs.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by summersm343

It’s not as expensive to build in Baltimore. Philly is almost as expensive as NYC to build in with half the returns.

Also, look what they’re getting for rents at 414 Light Street - about the same as what you can get in Philly with lower construction costs.

Baltimore is still a heavy Union town though, no? I watched The Wire! Like how much cheaper is Baltimore union labor vs. Philly? Just curious (also assuming that 414 Light St was union built, I have no idea).

[JohnIII]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

You think Phase II is going to be any better?

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

I don't get the fuss; plus its early. I can't say if Phrase II will be better or worse; I haven't spoke with anyone over the project yet; they haven't even broke ground on Phrase I yet

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

The brick box at ground level, however, should not be allowed to see the light of day. They can do way better than something that resembles a suburban CVS with a glass shaft sticking out of it.

Pretty much how I feel as well, especially considering the quality of the brick in the building being demoed to build this. I know we can't save everything, but taking down a solid handsome (if plain) brick building to put up a lazy, incongruous (likely precast) brick one floor base is disappointing.

I'm also not happy about turning 17th in to essentially an alley.

The glass portion looks "fine" as rendered.

Hoping for something closer to:

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

Baltimore is still a heavy Union town though, no? I watched The Wire! Like how much cheaper is Baltimore union labor vs. Philly? Just curious (also assuming that 414 Light St was union built, I have no idea).

It may be, but if Baltimore is still Union heavy, it's still cheaper to build than Philly. Philadelphia is second most expensive on the east coast to build after NYC, which is absurd honestly.

This link doesn't have Baltimore, but it does show DC and Boston. Last I checked, Baltimore was cheaper than DC.

-Mulitfamily highrises in Philly cost $512 per square foot
-Multifamily highrises in DC cost $418 per square foot
-Multifamily highrises in Boston cost $510 per square foot

https://ccorpinsights.com/costs-per-square-foot/

[summersm343]

Really don't get the hate. I think this is pretty sharp looking.







http://www.rising.realestate/685-foo...-logan-square/

[reparcsyks]

It blocks the Sheraton. That makes it a hero in my book.

[ScreamShatter]

Don’t get the hate either. It highlights the church nicely, helping it to pop out more. It’s also pleasant to see modern high rise architecture spread over this way so it’s not concentrated in just a few areas of cc and uc.

[fairmounter]

I agree the phase I tower is unremarkable - but if I'm the church, I think unremarkable is what I'd want for the building looming directly behind the main church dome. My first takeaway from the renderings was how well it blended into its surroundings, while also blocking half of the Sheraton eyesore. Hopefully with the phase II tower sitting further back on the lot, the church will look to build a more striking design.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Really don't get the hate. I think this is pretty sharp looking.

Like, in the way that chinos without pleats are sharp?

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Don’t get the hate either. It highlights the church nicely, helping it to pop out more. It’s also pleasant to see modern high rise architecture spread over this way so it’s not concentrated in just a few areas of cc and uc.

I don't get the lack of hate. It's a classic shitstack. Poorly oriented site, super shitty and incongruous base, unremarkable tower.

I mean, the point has been raised that its right behind the church so no matter what, we were probably getting a blank glass wall behind the church. But even accounting for all that, this is a particularly uninspiring design.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to grab a torch and take to the street. It's just not a great building and I think it's perfectly fair for people to express their disappointment.

[iheartphilly]

If you guys remember, this phase 2 design is similar to the design for the Toll Brother project on jewelers row and most of us have disdain for that design. Phase 2 is like the bigger brother of the two.

[Frontst17]

It looks crappy from 30k feet because we’ve seen similar designs a hundred times before. This area was ravished by terrible architecture for decades so this is a breath of fresh air even if it’s not unique. I don’t see what’s wrong with this base the tall windows look sharp and in person it’ll look great. The focus is supposed to be the church as it should be.

[JurassicPhilly]

I don't get the lack of hate. It's a classic shitstack. Poorly oriented site, super shitty and incongruous base, unremarkable tower.
[/QUOTE]

Good! Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Like, in the way that chinos without pleats are sharp?

"'Blue glass is the pleated khaki of facades,' [Gregg] Pasquarelli [of SHoP Architects] told Dezeen." https://www.dezeen.com/2018/05/04/bl...k-skyscrapers/

We will get with the program ourselves here in Philly 10-15 years from now. On buildings where we can afford to anyway... I do like some of the Schuylkill Yards more ambitious proposals and the residential tower proposal for the last phase of the East Market developments. Glass is not inherently bad. Cira and FMC are striking buildings, in my opinion. But so much else is just bland, generic, and mindless.

[PurpleWhiteOut]

I'd argue we're moving away from glass boxes faster than it seems. Of the current serious proposals/projects in progress, a majority of them at least have a good amount of material mixture. W Hotel, the Jeweler's Row fiasco, and One uCity are the worst offenders currently. I think the Penn hospital and Schuylkill Yards will really signal the biggest shift, though. And I agree, Liberty Place sets the bar so high for blue glass buildings, it would be great to see the trends shift to something else.

[JurassicPhilly]

I am very excited about this project. It will make a huge impact on the skyline when viewed from the Rocky Balboa Museum of Art.