The next metroplex in texas unfolds

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

my point wasn't about growth, but about distance.

Exactly. SATX and ATX are simply too far apart and while San Antonio is merging with New Braunfels, the development drops off dramatically beyond that and the rest of the 35 corridor (apart from San Marcos and Kyle) is sparsely populated until just south of Austin proper.

[Riverranchdrone]

Distance issue is pretty mute with Texas's high speed limits. You can easily get from Austin to San Antonio in an hour most days. IH-35 is almost completely built up from Austin down to San Antonio. Its hard to tell where the cities start and end. Now for the future we should see the 130 corridor start filling up from Austin to San Antonio. I just wonder if 281 to the west is too far out from Austin to be another effective travel corridor. The cities right now are on two different paths. San Antonio is building out while Austin is building up.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Riverranchdrone

Distance issue is pretty mute with Texas's high speed limits. You can easily get from Austin to San Antonio in an hour most days.

drive times right now according to google maps:

san antonio to austin: 1:23

dallas to fort worth: 0:32


i stand by my belief that the extra 42 miles between SA/austin are in fact a pretty big deal and will prevent those two from coalescing into a single metroplex like dallas/fort worth.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

drive times right now according to google maps:

san antonio to austin: 1:23

dallas to fort worth: 0:32


i stand by my belief that the extra 42 miles between SA/austin are in fact a pretty big deal and will prevent those two from coalescing into a single metroplex like dallas/fort worth.

btw what exactly do they mean by that? is it downtown to downtown? or city limits to city limits? do we even know for sure??

[Steely Dan]

^ downtown to downtown.

[mrnyc]

i wonder what city limits to city limits is?

because that is really what we are talking about here.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

i wonder what city limits to city limits is?

because that is really what we are talking about here.

About 55 miles measured along I-35.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

because that is really what we are talking about here.

it's not what i'm talking about.

given the wild and arbitrary variability of "city limits", center-to-center is far more pertinent when talking about the formation of "metroplexes", IMO.


downtown to downtown, as the crow flies:

dallas to fort worth: 31 miles

san antonio to austin: 73 miles


that is a very significant difference.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

About 55 miles measured along I-35.

and city limits dallas to city limits fort worth along TX-183 is only 8 miles.

once again, a very signficant difference.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

and city limits dallas to city limits fort worth along TX-183 is only 8 miles.

once again, a very signficant difference.

Yes, I agree. Never been to San Antonio, but that's some insane sprawl if these two are connected. That's about the same distance from Detroit to Flint along I-75. Detroit to Toledo are only 43 miles apart.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Yes, I agree. Never been to San Antonio, but that's some insane sprawl if these two are connected. That's about the same distance from Detroit to Flint along I-75. Detroit to Toledo are only 43 miles apart.

downtown dallas to downtown fort worth:

as the crow flies: 31 miles

driving distance: 32 miles




downtown detroit to downtown toledo:

as the crow flies: 53 miles

driving distance: 59 miles




downtown detroit to downtown flint:

as the crow flies: 57 miles

driving distance: 70 miles




downtown san antonio to downtown austin:

as the crow flies: 73 miles

driving distance: 79 miles

[TexasPlaya]

It’s more of Central Texas corridor than a “metroplex” or whatever, most of the growth is along the major interstate.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

It’s more of Central Texas corridor than a “metroplex” or whatever, most of the growth is along the major interstate.

right.

corridor-style development along sections of interstate between relatively close major cities is very common all over the country.

but we've got some SA/Austin bootsers in this thread sincerely believing that that the entire region will be a single MSA in 20 or 30 years.

that's seems awfully far-fetched to me given the distances involved.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Dayton to Cincinnati is 55 miles give or take and there's been talks for decades about the two metros merging into one MSA but its yet to happen despite Butler County's determination to sprawl endlessly in every direction.

60-ish miles as a corridor of loosely connected metros is conceivable but one MSA (be it Cin-Day or San Antonio-Austin)? Probably not.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

Dayton to Cincinnati is 55 miles give or take and there's been talks for decades about the two metros merging into one MSA but its yet to happen despite Butler County's determination to sprawl endlessly in every direction.

60-ish miles as a corridor of loosely connected metros is conceivable but one MSA (be it Cin-Day or San Antonio-Austin)? Probably not.

Wow, I always thought Dayton and Cincinnati were closer than that.

[iheartthed]

The shortest distance I can get between NYC and Philadelphia is about 54 miles. Fairly similar to the distance between Austin and San Antonio, but I imagine that the development is far more contiguous in the former.

[edale]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Wow, I always thought Dayton and Cincinnati were closer than that.

Cincinnati's dominant sprawl direction is north, and Dayton's is south. So for most people, the distance is between the two metros is considerably shorter. Someone going from, say, Kettering (large Dayton suburb) to Cincinnati's Kenwood Mall, would only have to travel about 40 miles.

Of course, Cincinnati's airport is in Kentucky, and Dayton's is on the north side of that metro. If there was a single airport in the middle of the two, they would probably be a single CSA at this point. As it is, there are almost 700,000 people living in Cin-Day Land (Butler and Warren Counties-- the two counties between Dayton and Cincinnati). It wouldn't surprise me if the two become a single CSA in 2030, but I doubt they will ever become a single MSA, and I hope they do not.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Wow, I always thought Dayton and Cincinnati were closer than that.

they are!

via I-75 they are 39.9 miles apart (millsdale rd in cinci to southlawn ave in moraine*)

*although in moraine its actually the southmost point of dayton, which dips south to that street level, but just to the west of I-75).

[edale]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

they are!

via I-75 they are 39.9 miles apart (millsdale rd in cinci to southlawn ave in moraine)

although its in moraine it actually the southmost point of dayton, which dips to that street level, but just to the west of I-75).

Yeah, using downtown to downtown doesn't paint an accurate picture, when Downtown Cincinnati is located at the southern border of the city...

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by edale

Cincinnati's dominant sprawl direction is north, and Dayton's is south. So for most people, the distance is between the two metros is considerably shorter. Someone going from, say, Kettering (large Dayton suburb) to Cincinnati's Kenwood Mall, would only have to travel about 40 miles.

Of course, Cincinnati's airport is in Kentucky, and Dayton's is on the north side of that metro. If there was a single airport in the middle of the two, they would probably be a single CSA at this point. As it is, there are almost 700,000 people living in Cin-Day Land (Butler and Warren Counties-- the two counties between Dayton and Cincinnati). It wouldn't surprise me if the two become a single CSA in 2030, but I doubt they will ever become a single MSA, and I hope they do not.

as a matter of fact i just picked up my spouse at lga yesterday from a flight from dayton. for her going to the northern dayton airport is about an equal pain in the neck to going to the cinci airport from southern suburban centerville where her dad lives. same for columbus airport. she complains equally about all three options.