CHICAGO | General Developments

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by thegoatman

Eh, this depends on the street. Streets that are mini highways like Western, Ashland, Cicero, etc. will of course have empty storefronts. But go visit the more intimate walkable streets like Southport, Damen, and Clark and most of the retail is filled.

you are 100% correct, yet our zoning code/policy is pretty much one size fits all streets.

[thegoatman]

https://chicagoyimby.com/2022/11/cad...-district.html

Is it just me or does the whole IMD area feel like it has MASSIVE potential but its failing to hit that peak? This tower is...just okay and I just seen they completed this Hampton Inn there which is absolutely awful, looks like it belongs in Schaumberg or something. I feel like this area could be the country's premier medical district along with TMC in Houston and could really revitalize that section of the west side, but they're going along developing the area incorrectly.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by thegoatman

https://chicagoyimby.com/2022/11/cad...-district.html

Is it just me or does the whole IMD area feel like it has MASSIVE potential but its failing to hit that peak? This tower is...just okay and I just seen they completed this Hampton Inn there which is absolutely awful, looks like it belongs in Schaumberg or something. I feel like this area could be the country's premier medical district along with TMC in Houston and could really revitalize that section of the west side, but they're going along developing the area incorrectly.

The IMD is one of my least favorite parts of the entire city. It definitely sucks. They are going to hopefully make it better though. This is from April:

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/comm...id-development

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by thegoatman

https://chicagoyimby.com/2022/11/cad...-district.html

Is it just me or does the whole IMD area feel like it has MASSIVE potential but its failing to hit that peak? This tower is...just okay and I just seen they completed this Hampton Inn there which is absolutely awful, looks like it belongs in Schaumberg or something. I feel like this area could be the country's premier medical district along with TMC in Houston and could really revitalize that section of the west side, but they're going along developing the area incorrectly.

What do you think Houston is doing at TMC, that Chicago isn't doing? The TMC is just big and dense. It's not particularly urban or walkable. The recent growth around IMD seems exactly like the stuff going up around TMC. They can't decide if they want to be a city neighborhood or a college campus, important sites are kept vacant for future growth, and the buildings they do have are severely coarse-grained, designed without much attention to the streetscape or the pedestrian experience.

Originally Posted by BrinChi

Maybe retail spaces need to be more flexible... so that ETSY shop owners and other small business owners can do rotating popups. No policy is going to be perfect, and there will always be loopholes, but with the growing levels of vacancies it seems that the current order of things must change. We just can't let new retail sit empty for years on end in otherwise vibrant neighborhoods.

Hard to encourage popups when it takes 6 months just to get a building permit. When you do see a popup, usually they are built without permits. Sometimes that is legal, sometimes not. But the risk of an inspector slapping a stop work order is not exactly encouraging to anyone looking to do a popup.

[tintinex]

Didn't see this posted here so here you go:

Double Door Gets Approval To Add Marquee To New Uptown Home, With Opening Eyed For Next Year

https://blockclubchicago.org/2022/11...for-next-year/

[thegoatman]

Need buildings of this magnitude near every L station, not suburban style mcdonalds, parking lots, and strip malls.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by thegoatman

Need buildings of this magnitude near every L station, not suburban style mcdonalds, parking lots, and strip malls.

QFT

at every L stop.

in every neighborhood.


is there any city with a legacy rapid transit system that allows as much suburban-ass crap nextdoor to its train stations as chicago does?

[thegoatman]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

QFT

at every L stop.

in every neighborhood.


is there any city with a legacy rapid transit system that allows as much suburban-ass crap nextdoor to its train stations as chicago does?

Even in the downtown area, the city institutes shitty land usage near stations. No way a Mcdonalds that look like it belongs in Orland Park should have been allowed to be built right next to the Grand/Chicago red line subway stop.

Now a city that does TOD right? DC. Even in suburban VA, there's tons of good infill development near every station. Here are some examples.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8828...8i6656!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8871...8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9111...8i6656!5m1!1e2

2/3 of these are in suburban Arlington. Notice the mix of high rises, mid rises, and dense infill.

Now lets do Chicago...

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8911...8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9035...8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9166...8i8192!5m1!1e2


Now I picked prime real estate blue line neighborhoods to show. If I were to show the orange line or green line stops you would see nothing but vacant lots and parking lots. Now is it the worst? No, but compare these 3 to the one I shown for the DC area, not even touching it. Every single L stop needs to be upzoned asap. Love this city but it needs the right leadership to realize its true potential, especially transit wise. Strip malls, drive thrus, and parking lots should be banned anywhere within a mile of an L station.

[thegoatman]

Shoutout to Bronzeville tho for building correct multifamily dense infill near L stations

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by thegoatman

Even in the downtown area, the city institutes shitty land usage near stations. No way a Mcdonalds that look like it belongs in Orland Park should have been allowed to be built right next to the Grand/Chicago red line subway stop.

Now a city that does TOD right? DC. Even in suburban VA, there's tons of good infill development near every station. Here are some examples.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8828...8i6656!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8871...8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9111...8i6656!5m1!1e2

2/3 of these are in suburban Arlington. Notice the mix of high rises, mid rises, and dense infill.

Now lets do Chicago...

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8911...8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9035...8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9166...8i8192!5m1!1e2


Now I picked prime real estate blue line neighborhoods to show. If I were to show the orange line or green line stops you would see nothing but vacant lots and parking lots. Now is it the worst? No, but compare these 3 to the one I shown for the DC area, not even touching it. Every single L stop needs to be upzoned asap. Love this city but it needs the right leadership to realize its true potential, especially transit wise. Strip malls, drive thrus, and parking lots should be banned anywhere within a mile of an L station.

While I agree with you about upzoning, you're failing to understand that the Milwaukee Ave corridor never had much in the way of highrises, always a pretty dense commercial low to midrise corridor. As you already know, of course, the areas around Grand and Chicago are rapidly densifying. Damen/North is already very commercially dense, Western is rapidly getting much better, etc... Division/Ashland definitely needs work, no doubt about it.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by thegoatman

Even in the downtown area, the city institutes shitty land usage near stations. No way a Mcdonalds that look like it belongs in Orland Park should have been allowed to be built right next to the Grand/Chicago red line subway stop.

Now a city that does TOD right? DC. Even in suburban VA, there's tons of good infill development near every station. Here are some examples.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8828...8i6656!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8871...8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9111...8i6656!5m1!1e2

2/3 of these are in suburban Arlington. Notice the mix of high rises, mid rises, and dense infill.

Now lets do Chicago...

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8911...8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9035...8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9166...8i8192!5m1!1e2


Now I picked prime real estate blue line neighborhoods to show. If I were to show the orange line or green line stops you would see nothing but vacant lots and parking lots. Now is it the worst? No, but compare these 3 to the one I shown for the DC area, not even touching it. Every single L stop needs to be upzoned asap. Love this city but it needs the right leadership to realize its true potential, especially transit wise. Strip malls, drive thrus, and parking lots should be banned anywhere within a mile of an L station.

Comparing those Chicago locations with just a few years ago is like night and day in terms of density.

[marothisu]

LOL @ Arlington, VA being "suburban Virginia". That's like saying Hoboken, Union City, or Jersey City is "suburban New Jersey." There are multiple census tracts in Arlington County that are 50K+ ppsm and even a few over 70K ppsm. There's even a tract there pushing 100K ppsm. And it's not something new of the last 5 years. And you'd know this if you are familiar with Arlington for over a decade. it's been dense in various places for years.

But I do agree, there's some shitty land use near downtown. But knowing the history of the entire area kind of helps to put things in perspective. I don't know why people act as if these areas were built up or something. Chicago has come a long way in the downtown area really. Parts of River North 40+ years ago literally looked like parts of Elston Ave do today.

1972 Orleans & Kinzie River North
https://chicagohistorytoday.files.wo...-40-kinzie.jpg

Same spot, 2021
https://chicagohistorytoday.files.wo...022.jpg?w=1024


1976 River North:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClF4CUFV...g&name=900x900

All things considered, it's been a pretty crazy transformation compared to 40 or 50 years ago in these areas downtown. even the last decade. Back a decade ago this was Clark & Chestnut close to a transit stop:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8978...7i13312!8i6656

And late 2021:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8978...7i16384!8i8192


The amount of erasure of industrial sites and parking lots downtown in Chicago is actually quite amazing if you know what it used to be like in River North, Streeterville, etc.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

QFT

at every L stop.

in every neighborhood.


is there any city with a legacy rapid transit system that allows as much suburban-ass crap nextdoor to its train stations as chicago does?

The most recent revisions to the zoning code enforce P-Streets design standards within 1/2 mile around all rail stations in the city (CTA and Metra). Driveways/curb cuts are banned, blank walls are discouraged, buildings must come up to the street, etc. This doesn't eliminate the "suburban-ass crap" that already exists, but it does make it difficult to renovate or rebuild, or to add new suburban-ass crap.

This is a no-brainer around most of our train stations, but where it gets interesting are the many L stops in expressway medians. The Dan Ryan especially is lined with suburban crap. I don't see a way for any of that to get built now. That's a good thing, but I don't know what other land use makes sense. It's only a matter of time until people begin to complain that they can't build a gas station/strip mall or expand a church parking lot. In several other cases, P-street designations have been (temporarily) repealed to allow for expansions of McDonalds or other fast food restaurants. The new rules seem a little harder to bend, but if there's a way, aldermen will find it...

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by ardecila

The most recent revisions to the zoning code enforce P-Streets design standards within 1/2 mile around all rail stations in the city (CTA and Metra). Driveways/curb cuts are banned, blank walls are discouraged, buildings must come up to the street, etc.

there must be some bend on the bolded, because the new affordable housing development proposal up here in lincoln square next to the western brown line stop is still going to have curb cuts to access the parking garage that's included with the project.

yes, overall, it's obviously LIGHT YEARS better than the surface parking lot currently occupying the space, but curb cuts are still curb cuts, and they always make sidewalks shittier.

[urbanpln]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

QFT

is there any city with a legacy rapid transit system that allows as much suburban-ass crap nextdoor to its train stations as chicago does?

I believe the City of San Francisco and Oakland have some of the same issues.

[Randomguy34]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

there must be some bend on the bolded, because the new affordable housing development proposal up here in lincoln square next to the western brown line stop is still going to have curb cuts to access the parking garage that's included with the project.

The bend is that a developer can request the zoning administrator through the "administrative adjustment" process to forego the requirements. While this means the requirement is not as absolute as it could be, it does make pedestrian-oriented developments the norm rather than the exception.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

there must be some bend on the bolded, because the new affordable housing development proposal up here in lincoln square next to the western brown line stop is still going to have curb cuts to access the parking garage that's included with the project.

yes, overall, it's obviously LIGHT YEARS better than the surface parking lot currently occupying the space, but curb cuts are still curb cuts, and they always make sidewalks shittier.

It is available as an administrative adjustment. Practically that means you either need DPD planning staff to agree that a curb cut is needed, or you need the mayor to step in. Individual aldermen don't have much sway.

For Western/Leland, the project was intensely negotiated by DPD staff, so they must have agreed to the administrative adjustment as part of the compromise. Originally they did want the curb cut off the alley.

For land along the Dan Ryan, they may agree to adjustments there too, but they can't roll it back entirely so it still won't be the usual suburban crap. Strip malls, gas stations, etc will all need to adjust their site plans and building designs to be more urban-friendly.

[pip]

Originally Posted by marothisu

LOL @ Arlington, VA being "suburban Virginia". That's like saying Hoboken, Union City, or Jersey City is "suburban New Jersey." There are multiple census tracts in Arlington County that are 50K+ ppsm and even a few over 70K ppsm. There's even a tract there pushing 100K ppsm. And it's not something new of the last 5 years. And you'd know this if you are familiar with Arlington for over a decade. it's been dense in various places for years.

But I do agree, there's some shitty land use near downtown. But knowing the history of the entire area kind of helps to put things in perspective. I don't know why people act as if these areas were built up or something. Chicago has come a long way in the downtown area really. Parts of River North 40+ years ago literally looked like parts of Elston Ave do today.

1972 Orleans & Kinzie River North
https://chicagohistorytoday.files.wo...-40-kinzie.jpg

Same spot, 2021
https://chicagohistorytoday.files.wo...022.jpg?w=1024


1976 River North:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClF4CUFV...g&name=900x900

All things considered, it's been a pretty crazy transformation compared to 40 or 50 years ago in these areas downtown. even the last decade. Back a decade ago this was Clark & Chestnut close to a transit stop:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8978...7i13312!8i6656

And late 2021:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8978...7i16384!8i8192


The amount of erasure of industrial sites and parking lots downtown in Chicago is actually quite amazing if you know what it used to be like in River North, Streeterville, etc.

Thanks for the link! Im going to be on this tonight https://chicagohistorytoday.wordpress.com/

[BVictor1]

Discuss the future of vacant City land near the Kedzie Green Line station

At 6 p.m. Tuesday, Dec. 6, when DPD will introduce three teams competing to redevelop the site with transit-oriented uses.

Register and submit ideas at the project website: https://wewillchicago.com/east-garfi...ity-engagement




https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/...Kedzie_RFQ.pdf

[BVictor1]

11.28.22