Major airport statistics

[mhays]

I don't get airline pricing or route choices at all.

PS, I looked originally at fares one week out. Cleveland-Detroit might be full that day. In four weeks several flights are $400 but one is $170 (through Chicago!).

Why aren't more flights flooding in? Is Delta preserving scarcity on purpose? Why doesn't someone else add a couple flights per day? Aren't there enough First/Business passengers, freight revenues, etc? Are there hurdles in logistics or partnerships? Both airports seem to have a lot of extra gates.

PS2, Seattle-Portland is a similar distance. In one week fares start at $437, but in four weeks several options are $137, all direct. That's with both Alaska and Delta offering many flights.

One factor seems to be that every flight has base costs, not just distance-related costs.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by mhays

Many people, sure. But 90 miles to Detroit isn't far. And people in Lorain or Sandusky are closer than that.

I agree that people from tweener places like Sandusky would opt for Detroit, but that has probably been true for a long time. If you already have to drive an hour to get to an airport then driving another 30 minutes is probably not a big deal if you can get to a much larger airport with better options. But I doubt many are driving from Cuyahoga County to DTW.

Originally Posted by mhays

Also I did a test. Round trip flights to LA next Tuesday start at $300 from Cleveland and $200 from Detroit. Cleveland-Spokane (through any hub) is about $640 vs. $540 for Detroit-Spokane. Round trips Cleveland to Detroit start at $460.

There seems to be a clear cost benefit to going through Detroit, particularly with multiple people. (Gas and wear on the car could negate that, but people don't think that way.)

Airline tickets seem really expensive in Cleveland. That's definitely a major factor in the low numbers.

Airlines typically gouge on short hop flights. A ticket for CLE-DTW-LAX will often be a similar price as a ticket for CLE-DTW. Part of this is because they assume people paying for a short hop will be business travelers, and another reason is that they prefer to fill the short hops with people connecting through major hubs for longer hauls. That's why airlines will ban people that they catch skiplagging to get cheaper tickets.

I just searched for a Delta flight from Cleveland to LAX on May 9 that connects through Detroit. The cheapest one-way price for that flight is $289. The cheapest CLE-DTW ticket on Delta one-way for that day is $224. But the cheapest ticket from Detroit to LAX that same day is $304. So it's actually cheaper in this case to fly from Cleveland than it is to fly from Detroit.

[mhays]

Non-hubs are usually more expensive.

Cleveland's low numbers only rely on a fraction of the overall numbers to peel off. We're talking about several factors that could nudge things.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by mhays

I don't get airline pricing or route choices at all.

Flying in general seems to have gotten stupid fucking expensive, just like everything else.

We were gonna fly to Florida for spring break.

$3,00 roundtrip for the 4 of us!!

So we drove instead.

[Emprise du Lion]

Originally Posted by mhays

As for STL's connector, it must have had sizeable costs and operational issues to keep the walkway open. It's just really inconvenient, especially since it appears to have been inside security. Do they at least have a free shuttle every five minutes?

So if you accidentally ended up in the wrong terminal you have to exit security to go to the other one. This doesn't really happen a lot though since T2 is dedicated Southwest and T1 is everyone else.

They do run free shuttles between the terminals, and they also run free shuttles to all the offsite parking lots. Both terminals are also served by Metrolink with dedicated stations. STL is honestly really convenient when traveling, and I rarely have issues there beyond the airlines themselves having problems (I'm looking at you, AA).

I think the simplicity and ease of STL is the city's way of trying to appease the airlines in order to try and reclaim some of our hub glory. For whatever it is worth, Southwest seems to be loving it and STL was their 10th busiest airport as of last year.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Airlines typically gouge on short hop flights. A ticket for CLE-DTW-LAX will often be a similar price as a ticket for CLE-DTW. Part of this is because they assume people paying for a short hop will be business travelers, and another reason is that they prefer to fill the short hops with people connecting through major hubs for longer hauls. That's why airlines will ban people that they catch skiplagging to get cheaper tickets.

I never even heard of the term "skiplagging." I guess I don't fly often.

How does it work if you have checked-in luggage?

EDIT: Never mind, the answer to my question is at the very end of the article you linked.

[mhays]

But connecting to another airline would mean leaving security.

The airlines might like to limit competition that way, but travelers probably don't.

[Emprise du Lion]

Originally Posted by mhays

But connecting to another airline would mean leaving security.

The airlines might like to limit competition that way, but travelers probably don't.

That is correct. It requires leaving security as of today. The new airport design will eliminate that though.

[iheartthed]

With skiplagging, people typically purchase the outgoing journey on one airline and the return on a different airline (or at least a different itinerary) to avoid being caught. Thus, there wouldn't/shouldn't be a need to change airlines in one journey.

For the CLE-DTW-LAX hypothetical, if a person wants to go from Cleveland to Detroit but notices that a one-way to LAX through Detroit is cheaper, they'd buy the one-way from Cleveland to L.A. through Detroit, but only fly the CLE-DTW leg of the itinerary. OTOH, if that person wanted to go to L.A. from Cleveland and found that the trip is cheaper if you cobble together one ticket from CLE-DTW and another from DTW-LAX, then that is not considered skiplagging and is not against the rules.

There were/are a few apps that specialize in finding cheaper airfares using the skiplag trick. They've all been sued by the major airlines but have survived. There are a few things to keep in mind for it to be successful:

• Do not check bags.
• Do not connect the itinerary to a frequent flyer account or use an airline credit card. This will make it easy for the airline to figure out what you've done.
• Do not try attempt to do with a round trip ticket. If you buy a r/t from CLE-DTW-LAX and expect to just take the CLE-DTW legs back and forth, you'll get stranded. The airline will cancel the entire ticket after you miss the second leg of the trip from DTW-LAX.