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  #41  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2008, 6:12 PM
shrek05 shrek05 is offline
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Macy's has already been confirmed as the third anchor for CityNorth.

Quote:
Macy's headed to CityNorth development
DAVID WOODFILL, TRIBUNE
Macy’s will be the third luxury department store in the upscale CityNorth development near the north Scottsdale-Phoenix border, the developer said.

Kenneth A. Himmel, president and CEO of Related Urban development company, said the retailer hasn’t yet announced its intention to open at the massive mixed-use center with offices, residences and retail, but it will “shortly.”

He said the Cincinnati-based retailer is expected to open concurrently in late-2009 with the center’s other anchors, Bloomingdale’s, Nordstrom and a fourth announced department store.

Macy’s did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment.
Neiman Marcus has been rumored to be the fourth anchor for a little while. THey have been looking to expand their Fashion Square location for some time. Saks just beefed up their Biltmore location so I think in all likelihood, Neimans will be the fourth anchor.

Another article on Bloomingdale's

Quote:
Bloomingdale's to Open at CityNorth in Phoenix
Published: Friday, February 15, 2008
By Sharon Edelson
Women's Wear Daily

In the competitive Phoenix market, the viability of a mixed-use project hinges on the developer's ability to secure anchor tenants, and by that yardstick, CityNorth has captured a major prize — Bloomingdale's.

The Related Cos. and Thomas J. Klutznick Co. said Thursday that the retailer signed a lease to open a 180,000-square-foot flagship at the 144-acre development. It will be Bloomingdale's first store in Arizona.

Bloomingdale's becomes the second anchor to sign a lease at CityNorth, which will have 1.25 million square feet of retail space. The entire project carries a $1.2 billion price tag. Nordstrom has been committed to CityNorth for more than a year. Sources said that Macy's West will likely occupy the third anchor slot.

"We think we can be a true headquarters store in the upscale market," said Michael Gould, chairman and chief executive officer of Bloomingdale's. "The upscale market is moving further and further north. North Phoenix is tomorrow's type of customer."

Commenting on the current economic slowdown, Gould said: "We look at the world in the long-term."

Related Urban Development, an operating unit of Related Cos., said Bloomingdale's decision is key to the project. "They selected us; we won the game," said Kenneth Himmel, president and ceo of Related Urban.

The first phase of CityNorth to launch next fall will be the high street section. Department and specialty anchor stores and 250,000 square feet of additional specialty retail and restaurant space will be unveiled in fall 2009. A boulevard with luxury stores will open in 2010.

Webber Hudson, executive vice president of Related Urban, which also built Manhattan's Shops at Columbus Circle at TimeWarner Center, estimated CityNorth retailers will do no less than $750 to $800 a square foot in sales. "Phoenix has an unusually high productivity rate among its centers," he added.

At the project's inception four years ago, Himmel said he concluded after looking at the competitive landscape "that there was going to be one major regional shopping destination in northeast Phoenix, and whoever got Nordstrom, Bloomingdale's and Macy's would define where that project would be."

There's no secret about why developers have flocked to North Phoenix. Household incomes average $92,265 and 30 percent of households in the trade area earn more than $100,000. However, the future of competing projects in the area appears less assured. Palisene, scheduled to bow in northeast Phoenix between 2010 and 2012, calls for more than 1 million square feet of upscale and luxury shopping anchored by as many as four department stores.

David C. Scholl, senior vice president of development for Macerich's Westcor division, which is building Palisene, said months ago that there was 4 million square feet of retail space proposed for North Phoenix, but demand for only 1 million square feet. "If all [the projects] are competing for luxury retailers, then we're competing for the same tenants," Scholl told WWD in June. "If a winner comes forth and delivers the tenants, the others should bow out."

Another contender, One Scottsdale, DMB Associates' $1.5 billion, 1.8 million-square-foot mixed-use development, has aggressively courted luxury labels. The company was a sponsor of Mercedes-Benz Fashion Week in Manhattan in February 2007 in the hope of attracting fashion retailers to its 500,000-square-foot shopping component. The first phase is scheduled for completion in October 2009.

Regarding the choice of CityNorth, Gould said: "We felt we would have a better opportunity in this brand-new market to present the kind of store we have in Chestnut Hill [Mass.] and San Francisco with Nordstrom as the other upscale store. We felt we could have a better, more comprehensive store than we could have had in Scottsdale."

Gould was bullish about Bloom ingdale's future. "We far exceeded our plan in San Diego," he said. "Our San Francisco flagship showed that we can go into the middle of [a market] with a spectacular Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue and Macy's West flagship. The business has blown people away."

Sources believe Blooming dale's SoHo unit is running more than 20 percent ahead of projections. Overall, the chain has experienced double-digit growth since 2002 when Gould's rebranding program started. "All these different things are working," he said. "The freestanding home stores are far more a work in progress. They're growing, but not at the same rate as some of the soft goods businesses."

The idea of CityNorth's outdoor center built around entertainment and food appealed to Gould, who has been placing more emphasis on dining at Bloomingdale's.

"We have a vision of what we want the store to be," Gould said. "We're going to try to bring to Phoenix the same kind of excitement we brought to San Francisco. We're going to try to replicate that store. We see no reason why we can't have the [designer] assortments of South Coast Plaza" in Costa Mesa, Calif.

Himmel said a New York restaurateur "will open a 12,000-square-foot chef-driven eatery on the third floor of Bloomingdale's." Himmel's strategy of putting high-end restaurants in a shopping environment is partly responsible for the success of the Shops at Columbus Circle.

Bloomingdale's cool, modern design will complement CityNorth's architecture, Himmel said. Macy's West is said to be working on a new retail prototype featuring an exterior of metal and glass screens and more showcase windows than normal. "We have a spot for a fourth specialty department store that could open in three years," Himmel said. "It could be Neiman Marcus or Saks Fifth Avenue."

Or Related could carve up that space. "We always thought of [that building] as a luxury anchor," Hudson said. "We're also talking about creating four or five major flagships each with 10,000 square feet on two levels for tenants such as Tiffany & Co. and Polo Ralph Lauren in that space."

Hudson said Gilly Hicks, Abercrombie & Fitch's new concept, wants to open in 10,000 square feet. Ann Taylor, Chico's and White House|Black Market will be in the lifestyle district. "With Bloomingdale's, we'll move up in price point and fashion sensibility," he said.

Louis Vuitton, Gucci and Ferragamo are among the brands that are said to have shown an interest in CityNorth. Hudson declined to comment, but said, "Sales for luxury stores in the market are such that a second store is clearly justified."

Hudson is hoping Bloomingdale's decision in Phoenix helps open some luxury retail doors at Shops at Columbus Circle. "We're talking to a more luxurious type of tenant from Madison and Fifth Avenues," he said. "Before, I couldn't get them to budge and come over to the West Side."
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  #42  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2008, 3:19 PM
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Today's visiting columnist in the East Valley Tribune, George Will, writes about the fairness of CityNorth's tax incentives:

Unwrapping government's gifts to private sector

PHOENIX -- When the upscale stores -- Bloomingdale's, Nordstrom and other magnets for affluent shoppers -- open their doors at the CityNorth "urban village" now being built, Phoenix taxpayers will be there, sort of. They are providing a $97.4 million subsidy to the Chicago-based developer of the 144-acre project that will include residential, office and hotel facilities.

The subsidy -- allowing the developer to keep sales taxes collected up to $97.4 million -- might, however, violate the state constitution. Represented by the litigation arm of the Goldwater Institute, six taxpayers who own small, unsubsidized businesses say the subsidy violates three constitutional provisions.

The equal privileges and immunities clause says government cannot without good reason -- a large loophole -- provide a privilege or immunity to one taxpayer without granting it to all. Another provision forbids laws conferring special benefits on a single corporation.

The third, and most interesting, provision, "the gift clause," was supposed to erect a wall of separation between government and corporations by forbidding gifts or loans of state credit, or state donations, grants or subsidies, or the state becoming a shareholder. This clause, of which many other states have variants, was born of chastening experiences, but has been vitiated in Arizona and elsewhere by judicial mischief.

The plaintiffs say, reasonably, that the clause's original intent was sensible and should be restored through strict construction. The developer says, reasonably, that it undertook the $1.8 billion project on financial understandings that should not now be altered.

The developer's profits come primarily from residential and office portions of the project, but Phoenix cares most about sales taxes from the retail stores. The city says, plausibly, that the subsidy is necessary because otherwise it would be engaging in unilateral disarmament: Burgeoning suburbs, which are rubbing up against it and one another, stand to reap substantial sales tax windfalls by luring -- with subsidies -- businesses to locate on one side or the other of jurisdictional boundaries. If the CityNorth subsidy had not been offered, the developer would be building a differently configured project.

This is a new imbroglio about an old and discredited practice -- booster socialism. In the 19th century, governments practiced what is now called "corporate welfare," particularly benefiting railroads, which could make or break farmers and communities. Benjamin Barr, a senior fellow at the Goldwater Institute, writes: "Illinois invested $10.2 million in 1837 for internal improvements, including 1,341 miles of railroad. Only 26 miles of the railroad were completed, making the interest on the debt exceed the state's revenue, which forced the state into default."

Arizona, having made improvident investments of public money in private corporations, adopted the gift clause at its 1910 constitutional convention. But the clause has been hollowed out by judicial decisions allowing entanglements of government and corporations when the entanglements satisfy the elastic criteria of having a "public purpose" or providing a "public benefit."

Arizona's Supreme Court has held that whether a government transaction with a private corporation violates the gift clause depends on "the motivating and animating cause of the transaction." Got that? This is how courts weakened the U.S. Constitution's Fifth Amendment restrictions on how government could take private property "for public use."

In the original narrow understanding, "public use" meant public works such as roads, bridges, courthouses. Then taking property to cure "blight" (another elastic term) became a public use. Now property is taken and given to developers just because they will pay higher taxes than the original owners.

Similar judicial malpractice has enabled John McCain and other campaign "reformers" to eviscerate the First Amendment. "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech" -- unless Congress claims that the law's rationale is to prevent "corruption" or the "appearance" thereof.

Courts have misconstrued the gift clause into a nullity, so legislators now use any asserted public benefit, however remote, to justify using subsidies to compete with rival jurisdictions for businesses and their tax revenues -- or to rationalize conferring benefits on powerful interests. For example, suburban Scottsdale's City Council has given $1.5 million for 19 automobile dealerships -- some of them owned by companies with revenues in the billions -- to spend on marketing.

Today, Phoenix taxpayers are paying the cost of a pricey law firm's defense of the constitutionality of their subsidy of CityNorth. Perhaps courts, which unleashed the subsidies' competition by making mush of the gift clause, can make amends by reinvigorating that clause, as the Goldwater Institute requests. Failing that, Arizonans can stop booster socialism and enforce general disarmament among their cities by amending the clause with language that stipulates the original intent. The most effective cure for foolish politics is still sensible politics.


Will is an ABC commentator and Washington Post columnist. Contact him at georgewill@washpost.com
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  #43  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2008, 6:23 PM
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I love a good George Will column. He's so right. Yet I still disagree with him. The inherent conflict in being an urbanist and a conservative at the same time.
The conservative in me says "what the heck is the city doing giving these developers money???" At the same time, the urbanist in me says "What a great way to increase the density of a huge project, thereby increasing tax revenues, the long-term value of the project, and so on. It could also help Phoenicians realize and understand the value of well-designed density." Conservative rejoinder: "What about the precedent set when the court ultimately agrees with the city? Will city gov'ts run around offering huge incentives to any developer with a proposal?"

It's a much bigger deal than we realize; either way this decision goes, it will influence the direction of development in AZ for a long time.
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  #44  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2008, 8:33 PM
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George Will makes a good argument but there's a major disconnect. There's a huge difference between the flat out corruption/malfeasance 171 years ago where 26 miles of railroad built out of 1341 paid for versus the CityNorth subsidy which enables a better project to be built today.

That being said, however, we are well aware of projects that promise the sky, get the subsidy, and scale down. CityScape is certainly one of them--Museum Towers or One Phoenix might have as much sheer benefit to the immediate area in terms of central residents and random retail spots, but they certainly aren't subsidized to a similar tune.

Goldwater's subsidy argument also ignores the fact that this isn't Phoenix cutting developers a check willy nilly so I wonder how this even falls under the gift clause--there's no gift, it's a run of the mill transaction encompassing a widely-expected municipal responsibility. Phoenix is buying garages to ensure free or as close-to-free as possible parking, just like cities all over the country do downtown or other significant areas. This certainly falls within the realm of the narrow definition of public purpose as it is only for basic infrastructure. Even aside from the public purpose in anchoring a part of the city and helping it grow smarter with greater tax revenue, Will is intellectualy dishonest in not giving one word to the meat and potatoes of the deal--the garages. But it's still boggling that he would discount the potential of greater tax revenue the way he does.

The Scottsdale automobile dealership marketing thing is a red herring and his argument falls apart when you consider the equal privileges clause mentioned earlier in his column. Put it his way it sounds insane that Scottsdale would have spent any money... but the dealerships owned by the billion-dollar corporations aren't going to contribute money advertising for the whole strip--they are going to advertise for their own business and screw everyone else. Scottsdale is spending money to market an entire area that benefits all the dealerships equally in addition to the entire city.

The crux of this argument isn't just about better-quality developments, the gravity of which only folks like us can really understand. Most people understand our broken transportation system. If we start shoving options off the table like private corporations working with the State to build toll roads and commuter/passenger rail lines then we won't fix our more pressing issues.

I think he's spot on with regards to the city-vs-city bidding wars. But if Goldwater wins, yes, this particularly irksome aspect of our city-vs-city competition will end, but Arizona itself will be put at a serious disadvantage if we are constitutionally limited to competing on our own merits alone. There are many good points to Goldwater's arguments. But their approach in putting everything about the unavoidable relationship between governments and private corporations on trial is no way to fix the kinks in the process.
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  #45  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2008, 2:09 AM
HX_Guy HX_Guy is offline
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The first phase of CityNorth, High Street, seen here opens November 13th.
So far, I like it. Sure it's "made up" urban...but it's nice, the street approach is ideal (hello...downtown developers...why can this be done properly in the freaking 'burbs but not in actual downtown!?).

I hope they continue with the other phases so it doesn't end up just one lone strip, but a maze of streets that you can get lost in. I'd love to see this in 10-15 years develop into a real urban neighborhood..."the CityNorth area of Phoenix"...just like you have the Biltmore area or Arcadia etc.









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  #46  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2008, 2:35 PM
kevininlb kevininlb is offline
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Yeah, looks pretty nice. It's hard (for me) to get blown away by a shopping area, but, yeah, nice. As for future phases, I'm pretty sure the next phase is a go, with Nordstrom and some other department stores.

I do have one sort of pointless beef about this development, though. You have Desert Ridge (which I like a lot) right across the way, but just a tad too far to walk to. Seems like this would've worked better as a shopping area if it incorporated DR, which is itself a pretty decent place to walk.
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  #47  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 5:32 PM
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This looks like what Kierland should be. Hopefully with a more broad appeal in terms of price points, target age demographic, &c.

I'd love to see a safe, workable method developed to cross incredibly busy, auto-oriented streets (such as the one separating this one from Desert Ridge, or crossing Scottsdale between Kierland Commons and the new Scottsdale Quarter project). It's too bad people have to die (24th and Camelback) before the city sits up and takes notice that something is wrong.
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  #48  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2008, 12:44 AM
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This sort of development is certainly better than what we usually get and its quite a bit better than Desert Ridge which is just another soulless strip center but with a fake pedestrian walkway down the middle. It could become a nice mini core though and Phoenix already has the "DART" shuttle in the area, so thats nice.

HX_Guy I hope people never start referring to it as the "CityNorth" area, because that name is just awful. People already call the area Desert Ridge (as thats both the name of the shopping center and the neighborhood), so I think thats what the neighborhood will be known as. I wish Pinnacle HS would've been named "Desert Ridge HS", as that would've also helped create a more unified neighborhood theme.
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  #49  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2008, 7:06 AM
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Desert Ridge is yet another fabricated name. It's the core of the Desert View village (which is no better a name, although better than Area C&D, which is what the city used to call it). There is no ridge up there and there is also a Desert Ridge Middle School in Mesa. Naming communities after shopping centers is bad news, whether it is Desert Ridge OR CityNorth. As for Pinnacle, it opened a year before Desert Ridge Marketplace and was likely named before the shopping center.
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  #50  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2008, 8:04 AM
Azndragon837 Azndragon837 is offline
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I like the urban design concept, but holy shit, the buildings are ugly and it screams "sameness" everywhere.

If you want a good urban development/design with some varying architecture, go to Scottsdale Quarter. They did not need any subsidies from the City of Scottsdale (not that I know of), and if you drive by it today (across from Kierland), it looks pretty cool.

-Andrew
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  #51  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2008, 4:18 PM
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Why not call it "The area Northeast of the Tatum and 101 intersection that has a lot of things to do"...just a thought (and a poor attempt at humor!).
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  #52  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2008, 7:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbenjamin View Post
Desert Ridge is yet another fabricated name. It's the core of the Desert View village (which is no better a name, although better than Area C&D, which is what the city used to call it). There is no ridge up there and there is also a Desert Ridge Middle School in Mesa. Naming communities after shopping centers is bad news, whether it is Desert Ridge OR CityNorth. As for Pinnacle, it opened a year before Desert Ridge Marketplace and was likely named before the shopping center.
Well its on the edge of the desert, as it borders Reach 11, so "Desert Edge" probably would've been the best name. However, the neighborhood directly north of the shopping center is called "Desert Ridge" and has signage denoting it as such and it was called that before Pinnacle was open. I went to Pinnacle (bleck, absolutely horrid school) for my Jr/Sr year and was part of the first graduating class and I remember going to meetings between my Sophomore and Junior years where they did things like vote on a mascot (they chose "Pioneers" over my suggestion "Robots") and colors, and it was asked as those meetings why the school was to be called Pinnacle, as that sounds like a charter school. I do seem to recall someone floating the idea of Desert Ridge HS (to go along with the neighborhood), but ah well whats done is done.

Ridge or no, "Desert Ridge" sounds to my ear significantly less silly than "CityNorth" with out a god damn space in it like it was written by a toddler.
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  #53  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2008, 8:02 AM
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I believe there is a Desert Edge HS, but out in Goodyear.
i agree w/ andrew (dragon) - cityNorth looks so monotonous and uninspired.
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  #54  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2008, 4:35 PM
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blah... at least kierland commons is attractive and some of the buildings are different. This place is gay.
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  #55  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2008, 1:51 AM
Azndragon837 Azndragon837 is offline
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CityNorth is a piece of architectural crap. If the city gave the developers $100 million in subsidies, you would THINK that the planners and architects would use some of the savings and invest in a piece of "urban" development with quality design. Yeah, right.

I like Kierland, but it's not dense enough. Across the street, Scottsdale Quarter has gone up and I must say - it looks pretty good. All of you guys should drive up there and check-out the construction.

-Andrew
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  #56  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2008, 3:16 AM
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I don't know, I like it...it's very "Arizona" to me and it does what it needs to, mix of retail, restaurants, office, and residential all in a walkable urban setting.
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  #57  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2008, 8:15 PM
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CityNorth photos do look a little monotonous, but wait until they get final paint, fabric awnings, signs, etc. I think the design will come together a little better. I'm not convinced Scottsdale Quarter will be a lot better, but that's a discussion for a new thread (maybe on the Scottsdale thread? I'm not sure the Quarter project is big enough for its own thread....)
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  #58  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2008, 8:57 PM
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i think the Scottsdale Quarter is going to be a lot better than this. As of now there are 3 brick sections, a yellow and white building, a copper colored building, and it is all right up next to scottsdale rd, i think the Quarter is going to be amazing, and i am really excited for the H&M going in there
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  #59  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2008, 9:09 PM
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Speaking of not for this thread...

Has anyone recently seen the Dial building (hey, it's in the neighborhood, sort of)?

That thing, which I had once had high hopes for, is f'ing ghastly. If I was a teenage girl, I'd scream OMG. It's atrocious. Now, I'm a little bent out of shape about it to begin with because of where it is (messing up that beautiful backdrop of north scottsdale). But with its weird windows and monstrous size it's just jaw-dropping ugly. wow.
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  #60  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2008, 6:21 PM
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Don't internet slap me, but I like the Dial building! It is interesting... and I love the materials. I think it will come together more once the development materializes a bit more.
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