Small Cities That Offer a Good Urban Experience. - Page 6

Spocket · #**101** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 1:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robertpuant

The 3 pretties: Quebec city, Halifax, Victoria

Really? Yeah, they're not megalopoli but they're hardly "small" unless you view them relative to global cities. Certainly not small by Canadian standards. Especially when you consider that the "big city" experience doesn't really exist in Canada outside of T.O, Montreal and Vancouver. Certainly some cities have elements of the big city life but the complete packages can only be found in those three in Canada.

I think when we're talking about small cities, we really mean anything under 100,000 but perhaps I'm mistaken.

Loco101 · #**102** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 4:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by niwell

Stayed there a couple of times for work and Kenora always gave me some weird vibes. The downtown is nice enough with solid bones and some interesting places to go out (one of the nicer ones in Northern ON for sure), plus the scenery is gorgeous. Some of the most glaring inequality I've seen in my travels throughout the province though. Walking from the round waterfront hotel to the LCBO felt a bit like Moss Park in parts with a very visible down and out population. Having patio drinks I also saw both OPP and local Reserve Police accosting people on the streets (not tourists, obviously). This was near the end of summer when tourism season would have been winding down, and during the week so fewer weekenders. I can only imagine it's kinda dead during winter.

Better than Dryden though!

Kenora is the only town of significant size in Northern Ontario where tourism and recreation play a big role in the municipality's economy. It actually has a pretty nice downtown which is unusual for the region. Does it offer an urban experience? Well not really but maybe the sometimes crowds of visitors makes it feeling more that way? The main reason for being a tourism destination and vacation area is its proximity to Winnipeg. Lake of the Woods is very scenic and there are also many other lakes in the area.

Kenora does have problems with a sizable homeless population of mainly people who came from Indigenous communities up North. The town council has tried to allow the issuing of fines for loitering but of course that isn't actually going to solve anything.

GoTrans · #**103** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 4:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spocket

Really? Yeah, they're not megalopoli but they're hardly "small" unless you view them relative to global cities. Certainly not small by Canadian standards. Especially when you consider that the "big city" experience doesn't really exist in Canada outside of T.O, Montreal and Vancouver. Certainly some cities have elements of the big city life but the complete packages can only be found in those three in Canada.

I think when we're talking about small cities, we really mean anything under 100,000 but perhaps I'm mistaken.

I think for a small city Moose Jaw is highly under rated. Having stopped and actually visited Moose Jaw for the first time a couple of years ago in spite of driving through it numerous time we actually enjoyed the city, its downtown, its parks and its history. It was fascinating to learn about another of Canada's dirty little secrets of the past in regards to life in the tunnels for Chinese immigrants. Moose Jaw needs the revival of passenger train service to bring more tourists to town. If you actually stop and spend some time in most of Canada's small cities and larger towns you come away with many pleasant surprises and a better understanding of the country.

Loco101 · #**104** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 4:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Shawinigan: I had no idea. A mini-Montreal (or perhaps, a mini Trois-Rivieres) vibe is certainly on the offering, at least as suggested by those wonderful brick walkups. Plus, the hometown of the man who gave us the Shawinigan Handshake.

somebeersite

About 14 years ago my wife and I spent a few days in Shawinigan. At first we thought it didn't look very nice but it was because of the street we were on. But we found some really nice neighbourhoods with historical buildings and nice landscaping. We ended up having a great time and tented at the Melville Island campground which was really nice.

I remember the waterfront being good and we enjoyed the restaurants and bars with terrasses (patios). There were a few fireworks shows that we got to see which were amazing. A big highlight was that the National Gallery of Canada had a building at that time in Shawinigan with some impressive exhibits.

Loco101 · #**105** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 4:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoTrans

I think for a small city Moose Jaw is highly under rated. Having stopped and actually visited Moose Jaw for the first time a couple of years ago in spite of driving through it numerous time we actually enjoyed the city, its downtown, its parks and its history. It was fascinating to learn about another of Canada's dirty little secrets of the past in regards to life in the tunnels for Chinese immigrants. Moose Jaw needs the revival of passenger train service to bring more tourists to town. If you actually stop and spend some time in most of Canada's small cities and larger towns you come away with many pleasant surprises and a better understanding of the country.

My family stopped there a couple years ago when heading West. The downtown is very impressive and historical. We walked around, did a bit of shopping and found a really nice park (Crescent Park) that had a cool water fountain. We ate lunch at a cool restaurant located in an art gallery. I think someone posted of picture of the building it was in.

It does have an urban feeling for a place that is smaller than Timmins. Its location is somewhat unfortunate because it's pretty close to Regina and kind of gets drowned out by the capital.

Loco101 · #**106** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 4:51 AM**

I find that Rouyn-Noranda, QC can feel quite urban for a smaller city. It has a lively downtown and diverse businesses that you won't find in Timmins even though both cities are about the same size. Rouyn has many restaurants and bars with seating on the sidewalk during the Summer where they build a boardwalk around for pedestrians. The dining is very classy and I'd rather be there than Toronto!

The city also has a university and pretty big arts scene. There are many small independently owned businesses.

MolsonExport · #**107** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 2:41 PM**

the dining scene in Rouyn-Noranda is quite surprising given its northern location and population. On the other hand, the mom-and-pop restaurant scene Quebec hasn't (yet) been decimated by the worthless chains (Kelsification, Turtle Jerks, Tony Montanas, Blahstone Pizza) as has next door Ontario.

Razor · #**108** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 2:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loco101

I find that Rouyn-Noranda, QC can feel quite urban for a smaller city. It has a lively downtown and diverse businesses that you won't find in Timmins even though both cities are about the same size. Rouyn has many restaurants and bars with seating on the sidewalk during the Summer where they build a boardwalk around for pedestrians. The dining is very classy and I'd rather be there than Toronto!

The city also has a university and pretty big arts scene. There are many small independently owned businesses.

Yes I agree about Rouyn Noranda..I was only there once years ago, but I found their downtown quite nice and lively..Little sidewalk patios set up like you mentioned. It seemed years ahead of it's Timmins counterpart in that respect. I say counterpart because they are both similar sized remote Northern resource communities , except Timmins dresses THAT part more then Rouyn does. I don't even find Sudbury feels as urban as it could, or as similar sized Kingston..Maybe because Kingston has that historical advantage (better bones in it's core) + more tourism.

MonkeyRonin · #**109** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 3:00 PM**

Never been, but my impression of Rouyn Noranda is that it's not unlike a small, northerly Scandinavian city. Rugged, utilitarian and not particularly pretty, but it really packs in an impressive level of vibrancy & cultural heft relative to its size. Proof that a remote mining town doesn't have to be a bleak, lifeless place!

kool maudit · #**110** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 3:13 PM**

I can see it: Rouyn-Noranda, QC.

Piteå, Sweden.

Binour · #**111** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 5:01 PM**

A little video made in Rouyn-Noranda recently. I think we can feel a vibe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0SZZH3r2QQ

le calmar · #**112** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 5:26 PM**

^ That video doesn’t show the city much though? I caught a glimpse of a building for a fraction of second a few times.

Binour · #**113** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 7:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by le calmar

^ That video doesn’t show the city much though? I caught a glimpse of a building for a fraction of second a few times.

Here is another one where the city is shown a little more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypFibgIhdYU

and this corporate video of a mining company.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2anI0D-PDw

Rico Rommheim · #**114** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 7:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spocket

Really? Yeah, they're not megalopoli but they're hardly "small" unless you view them relative to global cities. Certainly not small by Canadian standards. Especially when you consider that the "big city" experience doesn't really exist in Canada outside of T.O, Montreal and Vancouver. Certainly some cities have elements of the big city life but the complete packages can only be found in those three in Canada.

I think when we're talking about small cities, we really mean anything under 100,000 but perhaps I'm mistaken.

Yeah, Quebec City hardly qualifies as a "small city", at least not by Canadian standards. It's even as big as Halifax and Victoria put together.

Based on what I've observed Shawinigan and St-John have the best mini-urban experiences for cities under 100,000 in Canada. Ryoun-Noranda is a new discovery, I had no idea.

905er · #**115** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 7:25 PM**

Chicoutimi, Quebec

MonctonRad · #**116** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 7:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

Based on what I've observed Shawinigan and St-John have the best mini-urban experiences for cities under 100,000 in Canada.

Saint John has a CMA pop of about 120,000. The city proper though is only about 70,000.

Rico Rommheim · #**117** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 7:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Shawinigan: I had no idea. A mini-Montreal (or perhaps, a mini Trois-Rivieres) vibe is certainly on the offering, at least as suggested by those wonderful brick walkups. Plus, the hometown of the man who gave us the Shawinigan Handshake.

somebeersite

Shawinigan is essentially a mini-Verdun / Pointe St-Charles / mini-Lachine. It the birthplace of Hydro-electricity in Canada, the entire population came from across Quebec and Canada, and you had a huge anglo population in the elite neighbourhoods up hill (modelled on Westmount?) and the working classes scattered across different towns which have since agglomerated into one city.

The guy who built the city has an art deco skyscraper named after him on Place d'Armes.

Trois-Rivieres, only 30km away, is even more impressive. Next to the buff downtown core there are several streets lined by plexes. I sent this photo to my friend who lives in Verdun, and he un-ironically responded by "why are you sending me a picture of my street?"

Verdun_but_it's_Trois-Rivieres_Mauricie_Series_04 by Foofoo MacShoe, on Flickr

MolsonExport · #**118** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 7:30 PM**

God, I wish there was at least one street like that in London, Ontario. We have some good urban bones, but they are bones: no flesh on the skeleton. Besides the local landlord (Farhi) owns everything and there is nothing he likes more than empty buildings and razing buildings for parking lots.

Razor · #**119** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 7:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

Yeah, Quebec City hardly qualifies as a "small city", at least not by Canadian standards. It's even as big as Halifax and Victoria put together.

I also get the impression that there are loads of small communities just outside of QC's metro area. The hinterlands /strong rural component really adds to the dynamic of a city. Toronto has that in spades. I also get the feeling that Kitchener/Waterloo and London benefits from that as well.

someone123 · #**120** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 7:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

Yeah, Quebec City hardly qualifies as a "small city", at least not by Canadian standards. It's even as big as Halifax and Victoria put together.

This is not quite true, at least if you go by the CMA population estimates from Statistics Canada.

I think Quebec offers one of the "biggest" urban experiences in Canada in an important way, one of the most extensive areas of interesting mixed-use medium density urban fabric to explore on foot in Canada. Halifax is not that small either. You can walk for about 5 km there through interesting pre-war urban fabric while in most Canadian cities it would be hard to do that without being well out into the 50's bungalow belt or suburbia.

None of this really depends that closely on the metropolitan area populations that are given so much weight. They put a cap on what is possible but even a few hundred thousand people are enough in principle for some good urbanity, and such cities are common in Europe. We just don't have much of that in Canada, and so we associate urbanity with the biggest cities. I think it will come back as more infill gets built. The changes might come quickly since there are a lot of semi-degraded older urban neighbourhoods just below the bar for vibrancy.