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  #1021  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 1:12 PM
TimeFadesAway TimeFadesAway is offline
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  #1022  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 1:30 PM
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Murray easily could have won this but ran one of the most unorganized and disjointed campaigns in history. The property tax freeze and lack of detailed and costed platform could have saved him from the pembina institute fallout but he campaigned like its still 2002.
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  #1023  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 1:32 PM
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Based on current trends they’re probably headed to Alberta. And honestly speaking now that Edmonton is more affordable then Winnipeg it’s looking like a very enticing location to relocate for me post graduation.
Add Halifax, Hamilton, Kitchener and Waterloo to the list too. All places that seem to understand city-building better than Winnipeg. I have roots in Winnipeg, but part of me wishes I had done my last degree in Toronto or Vancouver. I personally would never live in Alberta, but that’s just my pure bias speaking. I know many who say it’s a great place to live. Someone mentioned it in the transit thread, but I think the gap between Winnipeg and richer cities will continue to grow.

I agree Thurmas, his campaign lacked “seriousness”. Still a shame we ended up with another suburbs mayor.
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  #1024  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 1:45 PM
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I have read zero of the previous few pages. But welcome to Bowman 2.0 era. Nothing will change, nothing will get done.
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  #1025  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 1:47 PM
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Jacques Marcoux has all the stats on the election. Lowest of lows basically.

This will get you through to his Twitter feed. Lots of posts about the election current and historical stats.
https://twitter.com/jacquesmarcoux/s...74694861721600
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  #1026  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 1:59 PM
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A silver lining here is that Gillingham's election represents a crack in the dam for the municipal property tax freeze. He ran on promising to raise the property tax cap.

The proceeds are being spent in a counterproductive way to be sure, but it may gradually introduce to Winnipeggers the notion that taxes are how you pay for civilization.
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  #1027  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 2:02 PM
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Murray easily could have won this but ran one of the most unorganized and disjointed campaigns in history. The property tax freeze and lack of detailed and costed platform could have saved him from the pembina institute fallout but he campaigned like its still 2002.
Murray was like the football team that blew a 30 point lead in the fourth quarter. All he had to do was present any kind of cogent plan that reflected an understanding of the city's current needs and coast his way to victory, but you're right... he dusted off the tax freeze thing like it was the 90s, and it made him sound out of touch with reality. Combine that with the character concerns from the Pembina Institute news stories and that sank him.

The funny thing is that Gillingham, the putative conservative candidate, was on CBC this morning making a strong case for moderate property tax increases, driving home the point that with the provincial school tax rebates, in the end most homeowners will be paying the same or slightly less anyway.

How hard would it have been for Murray to do the same thing?

Any sentient being can see how starved the city is for cash. Murray badly misread the room on that one.

That said, it's kind of a sad statement that people with urbanist views had to rely on a blast from the past like Murray in the first place. Where is the next generation of leaders? Other Canadian cities have moved on to advanced urbanism in terms of their approaches to housing, transportation, planning, etc. But we're still stuck on the most basic fundamentals.

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I have read zero of the previous few pages. But welcome to Bowman 2.0 era. Nothing will change, nothing will get done.
Pretty much this.
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  #1028  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 2:04 PM
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A silver lining here is that Gillingham's election represents a crack in the dam for the municipal property tax freeze. He ran on promising to raise the property tax cap.

The proceeds are being spent in a counterproductive way to be sure, but it may gradually introduce to Winnipeggers the notion that taxes are how you pay for civilization.
The freeze has been gone for a while... Murray wanted to bring it back.
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  #1029  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 2:13 PM
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Anyone angry that Murray didn't win should be angry at Murray. He had a red carpet laid out for him by a city that wanted him to become mayor. All he had to do was back his abstract vision with a little bit of meat on the bone that the regular folk could realistically visualize, stay true to his simple long standing beliefs like opening Portage and Main instead of completely waffling on such a layup for him, and address his past issues in a thoughtful honest manner instead of the passive dismissive way he did. Also, it seemed like he tried to run out the clock hoping he had a big enough lead to coast, then started throwing things against the wall last minute when he started feeling the heat. He could've easily won this race with more than 40% of the vote and has nobody to blame but himself and his campaign team.

I get that people are frustrated that Murray didn't win, but this shouldn't be held against Gillingham. Like him or not, he ran a consistent campaign, put out his platform early and gave people the chance to pick it apart, stayed true to his messages which were articulated in a clear manner that was easy to understand (yes, simple). He also presented himself as someone who could bring people together and get people working in the same direction and I don't think this gets enough attention.

In the end it seems people were willing to go forward with a less grandiose but more realistic vision. For me personally I'm one of the guys who bash Winnipeg's lack of big city vision from time to time when I return from other cities and hate the stagnation here. I was excited when Murray announced he was running because I felt that he had that vision. Obviously I wasn't the only one seeing the early polling results. Unfortunately the longer this campaign went on the less I believed Murray had the ability to actually deliver even a semblance of his vision. It had nothing to do with his past at the Pembina Institute or the negative CBC stories on him, it was because it felt like he was going through the motions IN HIS CAMPAIGN! If he was already going through the motions without being elected, what chance was there that he could actually find that gear when elected? It seems he has changed since his stint as mayor and has lost that fire. I really wish he was able to capture the hearts of Winnipeg because I want this city to be progressive and move forward, but he lost this election more than Gillingham won it.

That being said, Gillingham has some solid plans that I hope he can build consensus and deliver because actually delivering is more important than just promising, and obviously the people of Winnipeg felt Gillingham had a better chance at delivering than Murray.
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  #1030  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 2:19 PM
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Murray lost the election, as opposed to Scooter winning it. That's for sure.

Gillingham hasn't sone anything yet. Give him time to break his promises. Every mayor does it.

Should dig up the Sam Katz thread. He actually got most of the stuff done he promised. Corruption and all.
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  #1031  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 2:23 PM
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I wonder what the results would have been had Murray not run. Where would those votes have fallen? Could Loney have galvanized enough support to win? Honestly I wanted to vote for him, but went Murray because I knew the two front runners.

At the end of the day, we have a mayor that a whopping 10% of eligible voters voted for. There's a lot of apathy in civic elections.
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  #1032  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 2:36 PM
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I wonder what the results would have been had Murray not run. Where would those votes have fallen? Could Loney have galvanized enough support to win? Honestly I wanted to vote for him, but went Murray because I knew the two front runners.

At the end of the day, we have a mayor that a whopping 10% of eligible voters voted for. There's a lot of apathy in civic elections.
Interesting to think if Loney could've done it, he really did run a good campaign, that being said I guess the same thing could've been said about the Gillingham/Klein dynamic. If anything I actually think RFO ended up being the determining factor in this race as most of his votes would seemingly go to Murray and that would've been enough.

I think too much will be made of nobody getting more than 30% of the vote, I actually think that's a testament to how strong of a field there was in this election. There were 5 absolutely legitimate choices (6 if you count Jenny since she had a pretty strong showing against incumbant Bowman last time) and this more than anything really watered down the individual numbers. Even if it was just 3 legit choices instead of the 5/6 you would've seen the winner likely in the 40s and not seem like such a weak mandate regardless of who won. I actually find it kind of surprising that nobody dropped out to support a "close enough" candidate to make sure a similar vision was in the mayor's chair. If Klein dropped out that would've almost guaranteed a Gillingham win and if Loney dropped out Murray would've almost certainly won. I guess on the flipside you can argue that whoever comes out of such a strong field will be a strong choice even though the numbers appear weaker than ever.
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  #1033  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 2:59 PM
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Interesting to think if Loney could've done it, he really did run a good campaign, that being said I guess the same thing could've been said about the Gillingham/Klein dynamic. If anything I actually think RFO ended up being the determining factor in this race as most of his votes would seemingly go to Murray and that would've been enough.

I think too much will be made of nobody getting more than 30% of the vote, I actually think that's a testament to how strong of a field there was in this election. There were 5 absolutely legitimate choices (6 if you count Jenny since she had a pretty strong showing against incumbant Bowman last time) and this more than anything really watered down the individual numbers. Even if it was just 3 legit choices instead of the 5/6 you would've seen the winner likely in the 40s and not seem like such a weak mandate regardless of who won. I actually find it kind of surprising that nobody dropped out to support a "close enough" candidate to make sure a similar vision was in the mayor's chair. If Klein dropped out that would've almost guaranteed a Gillingham win and if Loney dropped out Murray would've almost certainly won. I guess on the flipside you can argue that whoever comes out of such a strong field will be a strong choice even though the numbers appear weaker than ever.
It's a fair point, but makes me think a ranked ballot system would be a better approach. AFAIK London is the only city to have had a ranked ballot for a mayor and Ontario revoked the ability for municipalities to do it. RFO campaigned on introducing it, but at the end of the day its provincial jurisdiction.
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  #1034  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by pacman View Post
Anyone angry that Murray didn't win should be angry at Murray. He had a red carpet laid out for him by a city that wanted him to become mayor. All he had to do was back his abstract vision with a little bit of meat on the bone that the regular folk could realistically visualize, stay true to his simple long standing beliefs like opening Portage and Main instead of completely waffling on such a layup for him, and address his past issues in a thoughtful honest manner instead of the passive dismissive way he did. Also, it seemed like he tried to run out the clock hoping he had a big enough lead to coast, then started throwing things against the wall last minute when he started feeling the heat. He could've easily won this race with more than 40% of the vote and has nobody to blame but himself and his campaign team.

I get that people are frustrated that Murray didn't win, but this shouldn't be held against Gillingham. Like him or not, he ran a consistent campaign, put out his platform early and gave people the chance to pick it apart, stayed true to his messages which were articulated in a clear manner that was easy to understand (yes, simple). He also presented himself as someone who could bring people together and get people working in the same direction and I don't think this gets enough attention.

In the end it seems people were willing to go forward with a less grandiose but more realistic vision. For me personally I'm one of the guys who bash Winnipeg's lack of big city vision from time to time when I return from other cities and hate the stagnation here. I was excited when Murray announced he was running because I felt that he had that vision. Obviously I wasn't the only one seeing the early polling results. Unfortunately the longer this campaign went on the less I believed Murray had the ability to actually deliver even a semblance of his vision. It had nothing to do with his past at the Pembina Institute or the negative CBC stories on him, it was because it felt like he was going through the motions IN HIS CAMPAIGN! If he was already going through the motions without being elected, what chance was there that he could actually find that gear when elected? It seems he has changed since his stint as mayor and has lost that fire. I really wish he was able to capture the hearts of Winnipeg because I want this city to be progressive and move forward, but he lost this election more than Gillingham won it.

That being said, Gillingham has some solid plans that I hope he can build consensus and deliver because actually delivering is more important than just promising, and obviously the people of Winnipeg felt Gillingham had a better chance at delivering than Murray.
I 100% agree with this take. Like many on this forum, I was initially excited when rumors popped up about Glen running again, being somewhat familiar with his progressive ideas. And early on in his campaign, I was convinced he was the right choice for Winnipeg with his strong focus on urban renewal and transit. But as the campaign wore on, it became clear that the urbanist ideals were nothing more than a shiny façade with no realistic funding plan in place.

You absolutely cannot claim to be the "urbanist, progressive choice" when one of your main policy choices is to freeze taxes in an ailing city already short on cash that has the lowest average taxes in Canada and lowest spending per capita. "Starving the beast" doesn't work when it's already skin and bones, and his supplementary revenue choices that came out after his commitment to property tax freeze were unrealistic and poorly thought-out.

What good is it to have good marketing and good ideas when you don't even have the guts to raise the revenue needed to achieve it? To me, that just suggests Murray was more of a desperate opportunist, looking to secure employment based on name recognition and catering to both urbanists and fiscal conservatives. And I believe Winnipeggers seemingly recognized this and chose not to give in to such a weak portfolio of policy positions.

I think this video on Murray committing to freeze taxes at the CBC debate is what sealed the deal on my opinion of him, and many others felt the same way it seems. First, all candidates aside from Murray respond "yes" to raising taxes - even Klein for goodness sakes!; second, Murray observes everyone else's response before submitting his, and third, flip-flops multiple times on his decision before settling on "no". My guess is in that moment, Murray thinks this will dictate whether he sinks or swims. He thinks he can edge out a win if he maintains his urbanist positions while appealing to cheap Winnipeggers who don't like taxes, and continue to mislead them by promising to get a cut of PST or some other pie-in-the-sky revenue source and when that doesn't pan out, will pass the blame to someone else.

Thankfully a small majority of voters saw past this scheme and I believe it backfired. Many Winnipeggers rightfully recognize that tax freezes are not sustainable right now, and I truly think if Murray had committed to modest increases in property taxes like EVERYONE else, he would have won by a small margin. But instead, people now saw an unrealistic visionary which is not actually what this city needs.

People will say Gillingham is just more of the same, and that was certainly my stance several months ago. But when it comes down to it, his plan is the most realistic and financially planned out, and he probably has the most integrity and least controversy among any city councilor. I hope Gillingham will put a realistic emphasis on downtown and transit, but the ultimate oxymoron is that so many on this forum complain about roads and infrastructure, and lack of municipal spending, and Gillingham comes in with among the highest proposed revenue increases with a focus on infrastructure (how exactly is that super conservative to the lot of you?) and people still complain. Can't make anyone happy in democracy I suppose.

A pragmatic and costed platform is worth more than a pie-in-the-sky unrealistic but "progressive" empty word-smithed platform. Glad to see this realized.
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  #1035  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 4:04 PM
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Anyone angry that Murray didn't win should be angry at Murray. He had a red carpet laid out for him by a city that wanted him to become mayor. All he had to do was back his abstract vision with a little bit of meat on the bone that the regular folk could realistically visualize, stay true to his simple long standing beliefs like opening Portage and Main instead of completely waffling on such a layup for him, and address his past issues in a thoughtful honest manner instead of the passive dismissive way he did. Also, it seemed like he tried to run out the clock hoping he had a big enough lead to coast, then started throwing things against the wall last minute when he started feeling the heat. He could've easily won this race with more than 40% of the vote and has nobody to blame but himself and his campaign team.

I get that people are frustrated that Murray didn't win, but this shouldn't be held against Gillingham. Like him or not, he ran a consistent campaign, put out his platform early and gave people the chance to pick it apart, stayed true to his messages which were articulated in a clear manner that was easy to understand (yes, simple). He also presented himself as someone who could bring people together and get people working in the same direction and I don't think this gets enough attention.

In the end it seems people were willing to go forward with a less grandiose but more realistic vision. For me personally I'm one of the guys who bash Winnipeg's lack of big city vision from time to time when I return from other cities and hate the stagnation here. I was excited when Murray announced he was running because I felt that he had that vision. Obviously I wasn't the only one seeing the early polling results. Unfortunately the longer this campaign went on the less I believed Murray had the ability to actually deliver even a semblance of his vision. It had nothing to do with his past at the Pembina Institute or the negative CBC stories on him, it was because it felt like he was going through the motions IN HIS CAMPAIGN! If he was already going through the motions without being elected, what chance was there that he could actually find that gear when elected? It seems he has changed since his stint as mayor and has lost that fire. I really wish he was able to capture the hearts of Winnipeg because I want this city to be progressive and move forward, but he lost this election more than Gillingham won it.

That being said, Gillingham has some solid plans that I hope he can build consensus and deliver because actually delivering is more important than just promising, and obviously the people of Winnipeg felt Gillingham had a better chance at delivering than Murray.
Nailed it!
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  #1036  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 4:48 PM
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You want downtown vision, what is Vivian SANTOS vision, she is the City Councilor for the area? I never heard anything out of her this whole election. What is she doing to make the area better?
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  #1037  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 4:50 PM
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was hoping Allard in St.B was pushed out, he really isnt listening to the local community like he did in his first term
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  #1038  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 5:02 PM
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Sad not one incumbent lost. In my riding for St Mathews not one person I knew wanted Cindy Gilroy back, but she won. Also Transcona now has Russ Wyatt again, so more of the status quo. Let's build better roads at the expense of urban renewal to make it faster for people to leave for better cities and complain about Winnipeg from afar.
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  #1039  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 5:47 PM
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I was not comfortable with the journalism about Murray and it seemed a couple of local media folks had a personal issue with him. Those of that had business dealings with Katz knew he was a d bag before he won but everyone fawned all over him.

I was going to vote Murray but ultimately didn't. I assumed he would win and didnt feel comfortable voting for him because as much as I was not comfortable with the news stories and their veracity, I also wasnt sure. Knowing it was either Murray or Gillingham, I voted for someone else (Rana, because of her stance with the police budget),

Of course, my vote didnt matter. But I do wonder how many people thought like me.

The good news is, Jenny lost big. What a fall from grace. But she chose her angle and lost. Very bad advice from someone who also advised a former Cons candidate who lost badly too. Stop embracing what you want to hear and thinking the loudmouths are many when they are just the loud few.
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  #1040  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 5:49 PM
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Sad not one incumbent lost. In my riding for St Mathews not one person I knew wanted Cindy Gilroy back, but she won. Also Transcona now has Russ Wyatt again, so more of the status quo. Let's build better roads at the expense of urban renewal to make it faster for people to leave for better cities and complain about Winnipeg from afar.
Russ Wyatt knocked out the incumbant. Yes Russ was in the seat before but the most recent seat.
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