Why two twenty-somethings left the Lower Mainland for the North

SpongeG · #1 Posted **Jan 2, 2016, 7:37 PM**

An engineer and his journalist partner give up the suburban life for a whole new way of living in Fort St. John—number one again on our list of B.C.’s Best Cities for Work

On an early morning this past fall, Joe Moser was getting ready to leave home and go to work when he was stopped suddenly in his tracks: there, standing beside his truck in the driveway, was what he describes as a “monster of a thing”: a huge mother moose. With her calf grazing in his garden, mother moose wasn’t going anywhere—and neither, it turns out, was Moser.

Life is a little different in Fort St. John, human population 22,000 (moose population: unknown). Moser, a Surrey native, moved to the city 18 months ago. He had been working for Nu-Westech in Richmond as a junior structural engineer-in-training when his girlfriend, Bronwyn Scott, was offered a job as a reporter at the Alaska Highway News. Moser started calling companies in Fort St. John for project management positions. He found the only structural engineer in town, retiree Jim Jarvis, who passed his phone number on to Grande Prairie-based engineering firm Beairsto & Associates—who, within the day, called Moser and asked him to open a branch for the firm in Fort St. John.

“With no resumé—no nothing—I was given the opportunity here that I would not have been given anywhere else in B.C.,” says Moser, 27. “I’ve gone from just your general worker to a manager, and it opens up a whole series of possibilities.”

Moser and Scott are among the many couples moving to B.C.’s northeast—taking advantage of what our Best Cities for Work list shows is, for the second year running, the hottest job market in the province. Lori Ackerman, mayor of Fort St. John, says she began to see the shift from the boom-bust cycle around 2003, when the year-round summer drilling credit program was approved. The population has grown 7.4 per cent in Fort St. John since 2010 and by 9.9 per cent in nearby Dawson Creek (number two on our list). Many of these newcomers are also young: the median age is 31 in Fort St. John and 36 in Dawson Creek, compared to a B.C. median of 42. “Fort St. John is a place where both partners in a relationship can have good paying jobs—and that doesn’t happen everywhere,” says Ackerman.

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http://www.bcbusiness.ca/lifestyle/w...-for-the-north

TourOdeon · #2 Posted **Jan 2, 2016, 10:50 PM**

For every one young professional leaving the city, three immigrants settle in the city. Vancouver is well on its way to become a resort town of Canada.

logicbomb · #3 Posted **Jan 4, 2016, 4:56 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TourOdeon

For every one young professional leaving the city, three immigrants settle in the city. Vancouver is well on its way to become a resort town of Canada.

Exactly, yet anyone who suggest that is labeled a socialist/anti-capitalist.

I know people that purchased a new development near Cambie and 29th Avenue. 2 bdrm for over 800k, fortunately the son (25 yrs old) simply gets to live there and pay for food. His occupation? He travels the world and takes internships half the year. The fool tried to rent out the place for 2.2k a month for 6 months and he wondered why no one bit. Now the unit is sitting empty...

You go into the building and you notice most units are empty most of the time. Mercedes and Porches sit in the parkade collecting dust (and uninsured).

It's a representation of how rapid this city is being emptied out. Most people I networked it have either moved to the suburbs or Eastern Canada. Some of these professionals have gone to extreme measures to ensure they put their name in the raffle- this includes accepting low-paying jobs, unpaid internships or going to school from 8-4 and working 5-11. It's just becoming impossible to work your way up here, and rent is an extreme killer. I find that people are just leaving by their late 20's.

Thing is we have to accept that is life. This is one of the most desirable cities in the world. Clean air, pristine lakes, mountains a stones throw away and a small city feel that is not overwhelming to newcomers. You have to be really fortunate or innovative to make it here.

I got offered 60k/yearly job in Ottawa which starts in March. For me it's a no brainer, especially considering I am making half of that in the same field here.

whatnext · #4 Posted **Jan 4, 2016, 7:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Exactly, yet anyone who suggest that is labeled a socialist/anti-capitalist.

I know people that purchased a new development near Cambie and 29th Avenue. 2 bdrm for over 800k, fortunately the son (25 yrs old) simply gets to live there and pay for food. His occupation? He travels the world and takes internships half the year. The fool tried to rent out the place for 2.2k a month for 6 months and he wondered why no one bit. Now the unit is sitting empty...

You go into the building and you notice most units are empty most of the time. Mercedes and Porches sit in the parkade collecting dust (and uninsured).

It's a representation of how rapid this city is being emptied out. Most people I networked it have either moved to the suburbs or Eastern Canada. Some of these professionals have gone to extreme measures to ensure they put their name in the raffle- this includes accepting low-paying jobs, unpaid internships or going to school from 8-4 and working 5-11. It's just becoming impossible to work your way up here, and rent is an extreme killer. I find that people are just leaving by their late 20's.

Thing is we have to accept that is life. This is one of the most desirable cities in the world. Clean air, pristine lakes, mountains a stones throw away and a small city feel that is not overwhelming to newcomers. You have to be really fortunate or innovative to make it here.

I got offered 60k/yearly job in Ottawa which starts in March. For me it's a no brainer, especially considering I am making half of that in the same field here.

True that. I was at a party over the holidays and the hosts had a former homestay student now attending university, his parents in China bought him a brand new $800k condo in Metrotown. I'm always amazed at people on the board who delude themselves into thinking this is only an issue affecting SFH on the West Side.

Hourglass · #5 Posted **Jan 5, 2016, 4:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

True that. I was at a party over the holidays and the hosts had a former homestay student now attending university, his parents in China bought him a brand new $800k condo in Metrotown. I'm always amazed at people on the board who delude themselves into thinking this is only an issue affecting SFH on the West Side.

I recall that in Switzerland, foreign investors are limited in the places and developments they can buy into. While there are likely issues in terms of enforcement and tracking (not to mention incentivising developers), maybe it's time for BC to look into a similar system.

240glt · #6 Posted **Jan 5, 2016, 7:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hourglass

I recall that in Switzerland, foreign investors are limited in the places and developments they can buy into. While there are likely issues in terms of enforcement and tracking (not to mention incentivising developers), maybe it's time for BC to look into a similar system.

Up near our place in th Cariboo there are tons of foreign property owners.. Many from the states but many more from Western Europe. No shortage of land up there at the moment though and prices are very stable

However, we did a little shopping for a piece of land in the North Okanagan whilst on holidays there over Christmas, just outside Vernon in a very desirable area known as the BX. It is amazing the number of massive, multiple-of-million dollar mansions (not McMansions.. Real ones) that have sprung up on the hillside. Even more baffling is that most of them are unoccupied 95% of the time

Jebby · #7 Posted **Jan 7, 2016, 4:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hourglass

I recall that in Switzerland, foreign investors are limited in the places and developments they can buy into. While there are likely issues in terms of enforcement and tracking (not to mention incentivising developers), maybe it's time for BC to look into a similar system.

Bad idea. Restrictions such as that have led Switzerland to have a huge housing shortage and have increased rents on existing housing stock in urban areas substantially.

tonyvan · #8 Posted **Jan 8, 2016, 7:47 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hourglass

I recall that in Switzerland, foreign investors are limited in the places and developments they can buy into. While there are likely issues in terms of enforcement and tracking (not to mention incentivising developers), maybe it's time for BC to look into a similar system.

Most buyer restrictions wouldn't work.

Examples:

Australia has strict restrictions targeting rich foreign buyers but the country still is still one of the most expensive in the world. Vancouver would be considered very affordable in Australia.

China itself has one of the most strict policies in the world to stop speculators. In most big, desirable cities, you have to live and pay taxes to the city for at least 5 years in order to be eligible to buy a property. And in most cities, first property you have to pay at least 40% down payment, with 60% down payment on your second property. Third property is usually completely banned. Mortgage interest rate is also much higher at ~6% and only variable rates are available. Also, when selling your second property, an extra 20% is taxed on the increased value of the property. Even with such strict restrictions, desirable cities like Shanghai and Shenzhen still see double digit price increase every year....

The reason is simple - as long as there are people moving to your city, price will increase unless you build more units to accommodate these people.

The bottom line is supply and demand - in order to slow price increase, there's only one way: build more condos and demolish the single family houses. And this has to be done near the city centre otherwise you would have a low density core with sky-high prices surrounded by affordable high-rise condos in the near suburbs (which is sort of happening already).

Also the same economics happens in localized parts of the city. If you stop densifying downtown, it will get more expensive as the supply has stopped growing and more people moving to the city want to live there. This will gradually push lower income people to undesirable areas of the city. So densification is the ONLY solution. Forget about taxation, restrictions and manipulation. They won't work....

And if policy makers reject densification, San Francisco is the future - extremely high price within the city simply because vew few new housing stocks are added to the city. The whole city gradually became Vancouver's west side - a resort for the super rich.

Coldrsx · #9 Posted **Jan 5, 2016, 3:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TourOdeon

For every one young professional leaving the city, three immigrants settle in the city. Vancouver is well on its way to become a resort town of Canada.

There and the Island, that's for sure.

Other than maybe part of the interior, almost every single family friend over 50 is thinking of or has bought property in BC for retirement or semi-retirement.

Bcasey25raptor · #10 Posted **Jan 3, 2016, 11:11 PM**

You couldn't pay me enough to live up there. Weather alone would destroy me.

Jebby · #11 Posted **Jan 4, 2016, 4:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

You couldn't pay me enough to live up there. Weather alone would destroy me.

The winter is quite a bit colder than Vancouver, but the rest of the year is only abut 4 degrees colder on average. And it's a lot sunnier.

Pinion · #12 Posted **Jan 4, 2016, 7:39 AM**

Pretty sure TourOdeon, aka banned poster AudiA3, does not see the displacement of Vancouverites in a negative light.

I've told the story before but my wife was offered a great job while in the bureaucratic process of getting out of the country, otherwise we'd be gone by now. I still want to leave.

Alex Mackinnon · #13 Posted **Jan 4, 2016, 4:21 PM**

I'm also looking at leaving the city for international work. Got my P.Eng., now it's time to go make some USD

I've got a few months until my partner is done her masters, then we're out.

Too much dead money sitting in real estate around here. It's making the city a lot less competitive in many ways.

TourOdeon · #14 Posted **Jan 5, 2016, 7:07 AM**

If all the young professionals leave the city, will that put an upward pressure on wages?

Meanwhile in China...

• Video Link

Metro-One · #15 Posted **Jan 5, 2016, 7:55 AM**

Grass is always greener...

While there is a lot of truth to what is being said, I am now on my third year living in Japan, and while I love it, I am slowly inching towards the idea of returning to Vancouver...

There are many things I miss that cant really be measured. There is something magical about Vancouver's setting, living so close to such a variety of places (Gulf Islands, Victoria, North Shore Mountains, Tofino, the Okanagan, the Cariboo, etc...) is a giant bonus.

While the mountains and sea are very beautiful in Japan as well, there is just something special for me in the pacific rainforest.

I will be getting married this month and we plan to stay in Japan for probably another 5 years (raise children while they are young here) but once out children are school age our plan is to try and make the jump to BC. It may not be Vancouver directly, but somewhere south coast (our Okanagan).

Of course if by that time i have super high position in Japan we may stay, but honestly, I am not holding my breath for that!

I have known many people though who leave Vancouver / BC, and within less tan 10 years return.

PS, food variety and quality is amazing in Vancouver.

I dare say that Vancouver, at only 2.5 million, has a wider easily available selection of food (restaurants and shopping) than Osaka, a metro area of 22 million.

I am not shitting you, that has been my experience after 3 years living in Japan, That Japanese food is great here, but after that...

twoNeurons · #16 Posted **Jan 5, 2016, 6:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I dare say that Vancouver, at only 2.5 million, has a wider easily available selection of food (restaurants and shopping) than Osaka, a metro area of 22 million.

I LOVE Osaka, but to be fair... it's STILL Japan... and Japan is still full of mostly Japanese. While the selection of Japanese food will be excellent, the immigrant population just isn't there to support ethnic food.

How's your Japanese, by the way? Was it tough finding work in Japan in a profession other than English teacher?

Metro-One · #17 Posted **Jan 7, 2016, 10:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

I LOVE Osaka, but to be fair... it's STILL Japan... and Japan is still full of mostly Japanese. While the selection of Japanese food will be excellent, the immigrant population just isn't there to support ethnic food.

How's your Japanese, by the way? Was it tough finding work in Japan in a profession other than English teacher?

Yeah, so food is one sacrifice you must make to live here. A lot of people don't know just how great Vancouver is for food (again, for dinning out AND simply shopping for home products / ingredients).

まだ僕はちょっと日本語を話せます。日本人の友だちはいつも英語を話したがっているのです。

でも、毎日一人で一時間ぐらい勉強しています。

あなたは日本語を話せますか。

Coldrsx · #18 Posted **Jan 5, 2016, 6:58 PM**

'I LOVE Osaka, but to be fair... it's STILL Japan... and Japan is still full of mostly Japanese. While the selection of Japanese food will be excellent, the immigrant population just isn't there to support ethnic food.'

Depends where though, in our 3 weeks we found plenty of options, even if less than here. Granted, in Tokyo it should be expected, but even in Osaka, Nagoya, Hiroshima and even Kyoto.

tonyvan · #19 Posted **Jan 8, 2016, 8:03 AM**

I just bought a place in East Van at around 400K. It's a two bedroom, post-2005 condo, close to Skytrain. After 20% down, monthly mortgage is 1280, lower than my current rent for a one bedroom in downtown (1380). So according to CMHC's mortgage guidelines, a person/family earning 60K per year can afford this place(35% gross income goes to housing). I don't understand why people always fixated on SFH or penthouse units or luxury highrises when talking about affordability. Vancouver is growing up, meaning it's not a collection of suburbs like smaller cities are. So accept the fact that you need to live in a condo/townhouse or move farther away. You never hear New Yorkers or Londoners or even Torontonians complaining they cannot afford a SFH 2km to downtown do you?

Vancity · #20 Posted **Jan 8, 2016, 8:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyvan

I just bought a place in East Van at around 400K. It's a two bedroom, post-2005 condo, close to Skytrain. After 20% down, monthly mortgage is 1280, lower than my current rent for a one bedroom in downtown (1380). So according to CMHC's mortgage guidelines, a person/family earning 60K per year can afford this place(35% gross income goes to housing). I don't understand why people always fixated on SFH or penthouse units or luxury highrises when talking about affordability. Vancouver is growing up, meaning it's not a collection of suburbs like smaller cities are. So accept the fact that you need to live in a condo/townhouse or move farther away. You never hear New Yorkers or Londoners or even Torontonians complaining they cannot afford a SFH 2km to downtown do you?

Maybe they do, and we just don't hear about it.

But NYC is a different beast. They also have a more robust transit system, and most of the general public take transit. We don't have that here in Vancouver. People living farther and farther out are forced to commute by car. It's not possible (at this moment, or time) to take transit from Maple Ridge, or even Surrey. Our system is just not quite there yet, and may never get there in our lifetimes. There's no enough political will to create a more robust transit system.