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  #1021  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2010, 4:05 AM
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Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim View Post
Chicago has a great system of naming their trains................it's after colors. It works for the 3rd largest city in the United States...what's wrong with colors? Atlanta, San Diego and Dallas also do it!
Good for them.

I would rather name our lines after local vernacular unique to LA. Now what is so wrong with that?
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  #1022  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2010, 5:03 AM
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What is LAX Express? Or rather what will it be? Are certain routes getting express tracks now?
The "LAX Express" is a proposed nonstop rail link between LAX and Union Station. It would run along the Harbor Subdivision corridor, which is wide enough in some places to accommodate up to 4 tracks.



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And WHY isnt the Crenshaw Line getting a DIRECT connection into the terminals at LAX? Why is Metro being so short-sighted again...can you say cutting corners?
A Green Line extension to LAX is included in Measure R, but it is still unclear at this juncture what Metro's plans are. From what I understand, there are three options:

1) Extend to Century/Aviation, the site of a planned intermodal transportation center. Travelers would have to connect to an automated people mover to get to the terminals.
2) Extend to Lot C, which is closer to the terminals that Century/Aviation, but still outside the airport itself. Travelers would also have to connect to an automated people mover to get to the terminals.
3) Extend to Park One lot, a recently purchased parking lot adjacent to Terminal 1. This is on the periphery of the airport, so unless you're traveling out of Terminal 1, you would still have to connect to an automated people mover to get to the other terminals.

IMO, the first option is the simplest and the cheapest. I would go with that one.

However, the "LAX Express" could potentially reach the airport one day (see the map above).

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West Hollywood REALLY wanted the subway - campaigned hard for it, hired a professional lobbyist for it...compare that to all the other f@cking pseudo- westside cities like Cheviot Hills that have been opposing transit. It's sad that their temporary answer is NO.

So: someone please tell me before I have to go wade threw 100 unread Curbed comments - has it been decided with finality that the Crenshaw Line north of Wilshire (likely up San Vicente as that was the original streetcar route from a century ago) will definitely be light rail, (as Metro is refusing to build a subway connector station at Robertson for the Purple Line) ?

OR is there a chance - however minute - that the "Pink Line" could still turn into heavy rail subway?

And how minute is that chance?

Not having the efficiency of heavy rail in such large, central, crowded areas of the city = imo, BIG big mistake
Agreed. WeHo residents voted 83% in favor of Measure (the highest of any municipality), so it's a little unsettling to see Metro give them the shaft.

No, the exact routing and mode have not been decided. A feasibility study exploring the possibility of extending Crenshaw farther north (most likely up San Vicente) is to be conducted next month. Metro's wording in their staff recommendations only suggests that other, presumably cheaper alternatives be explored. So, HRT hasn't technically been ruled out, but the LRT idea seems to be gaining lots of traction. I messaged Jody Litvak on Facebook seeking an answer to the very same question (whether or not HRT would still be a possibility) and she vaguely replied with, "Certainly without the connection structure that was studied this time, a future HRT connection that would feed directly into the Wilshire line at this 'east' Beverly Hills location would be difficult." She didn't answer the question. I, for one, don't buy that an LRT subway would be any cheaper.

I think a better alignment option would be for Crenshaw to go all the way up San Vicente, turn right on Sunset, and then terminate at Hollywood/Highland. Save HRT for a future Downtown-Echo Park-Silver Lake-East Hollywood-West Hollywood-Beverly Hills-Century City-West LA route utilizing Sunset and Santa Monica Boulevards. That would be my preference.
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  #1023  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2010, 5:28 AM
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Excellent pictures on the last page.

My one major complaint is that the platform ramps roll people right onto " car land" and not a safe pedestrian waiting area. It's perfectly legal to drive in the crosswalk making a turn. It should be concrete with bollards.

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  #1024  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2010, 4:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jamesinclair View Post
Excellent pictures on the last page.

My one major complaint is that the platform ramps roll people right onto " car land" and not a safe pedestrian waiting area. It's perfectly legal to drive in the crosswalk making a turn. It should be concrete with bollards.
I agree. I'm pretty surprised how pedestrian-unfriendly most above-ground light rail lines are in LA - and based on the photos the Expo line is shaping up to be more of the same. Isn't facilitating walking the whole point of developing a mass transit system? In that picture you can see the whole street is designed to move cars as quickly as possible and any pedestrian space is an afterthought (notice the sidewalk with the stop light pole in the center).
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  #1025  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2010, 1:45 PM
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This one's for Crash-

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...,0,62238.story

Critic's Notebook: There's a growing disconnect on a better-connected L.A.

Nonetheless, the subway continues to operate as a symbol of anxiety-producing change. In the 1980s, when we first tried to build a subway across the Westside, a methane explosion under a Ross Dress for Less store on 3rd Street gave Rep. Henry Waxman and other politicians cover to help kill a transit project many of their constituents feared and loathed in equal measure. A quarter-century later, the subway still has the power to warp common sense.

The rest of the article is an interesting read as always from Christopher Hawthorne, and has a render of the upcoming Spring St park between 4th and 5th.
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  #1026  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2010, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve2726 View Post
This one's for Crash-

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...,0,62238.story

Critic's Notebook: There's a growing disconnect on a better-connected L.A.

Nonetheless, the subway continues to operate as a symbol of anxiety-producing change. In the 1980s, when we first tried to build a subway across the Westside, a methane explosion under a Ross Dress for Less store on 3rd Street gave Rep. Henry Waxman and other politicians cover to help kill a transit project many of their constituents feared and loathed in equal measure. A quarter-century later, the subway still has the power to warp common sense.

The rest of the article is an interesting read as always from Christopher Hawthorne, and has a render of the upcoming Spring St park between 4th and 5th.

I love Christopher Hawthorne. One of the few professional writers in LA who understands urbanism. Such a rare, rare occurrence, unfortunately.
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  #1027  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2010, 6:16 AM
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That was definitely one of the most reasonable things I've read in a while. I'm really glad that Hawthorne called out LA Weekly on its shocking and shamefully misguided "critique" of the Westside Subway extension. I definitely expected better from a liberal alternative paper. As a city, we're very lucky to have him.
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  #1028  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2010, 7:48 AM
LAofAnaheim LAofAnaheim is offline
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Hey all - please go to this page http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joel-e..._b_770651.html and help defend Joel Epstein in his great article about why the Purple Line should stop at Constellation/Avenue of the Stars and not on Santa Monica boulevard. The Beverly Hills high school administrators and others are threatening on the comment board. Read what they wrote and respond back! We need to make a statement directly to Beverly Hills for their misinformation!!!
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  #1029  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2010, 9:08 AM
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Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim View Post
Hey all - please go to this page http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joel-e..._b_770651.html and help defend Joel Epstein in his great article about why the Purple Line should stop at Constellation/Avenue of the Stars and not on Santa Monica boulevard. The Beverly Hills high school administrators and others are threatening on the comment board. Read what they wrote and respond back! We need to make a statement directly to Beverly Hills for their misinformation!!!
Arguing with those fucking retards won't change their provincial little minds. The more important thing to do is provide the support needed for Metro to feel secure enough to move forward with Constellation. These NIMBYs see life through a driver's perspective (as one lady pointed out that she wouldn't walk more than two blocks to a station, gee, I wonder what SHE looks like in real life, probably not great if she's that lazy).

Anyway, I have a feeling METRO will eventually formally adopt the Constellation station and just be ready for the lawsuits from these loser NIMBYs to come flying their way. Luckily, if the judge who will oversee this case is honest and can see the benefit of transit (it's common sense), then the case will be thrown out when the evidence is clear that tunneling in LA has been done before (most recent technologies used to dig through East LA without any damage) and it's perfectly safe.
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  #1030  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2010, 7:34 PM
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Personally, I favor the SM Blvd stop for Century City (comes up into a highrise and into the shopping center) although I'm not emotional about it. But it certainly isn't worth Metro spending money on litigation and delaying the project to ram their choice through if there is an active group of locals that cares and nobody really cares the other way.
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  #1031  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2010, 9:00 PM
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Personally, I favor the SM Blvd stop for Century City (comes up into a highrise and into the shopping center) although I'm not emotional about it. But it certainly isn't worth Metro spending money on litigation and delaying the project to ram their choice through if there is an active group of locals that cares and nobody really cares the other way.

If you're being sincere about your preference, then you are definitely an outlier out of the statistical norm when it comes to transit usage patterns. And unfortunately, mass transit isn't really for the outlier, but for the masses and what they WILL likely use given logical and reasonable transit usage concepts such as density and accessibility. (Didn't you "get it" when it came to the Crenshaw Line about density and future growth opportunities?)

The fact that Constellation/Ave of the Stars is right smack in the middle of Century City, where transit riders would come out adjacent to not only the other side of the Westfield mall, but MORE high rises (including the iconic Century Plaza Towers a stone's throw away from the proposed station). Plus, the Century Plaza Hotel, the future development behind it, Equinox, 2000 Ave of the Stars, a block from Stern's The Century, and a proposed project consisting of twin 47-story towers on the NW corner, as well as the MGM tower and Sun America tower, and on and on.

So why would a station be put on SM Blvd., the fringe of Century City, where it abuts the LA Country Club (no growth opportunities there)?

Furthermore, some people just have a hard time figuring out concepts and following along when it comes to transit because they are so brainwashed by driving cars all day long: Metro is not ramming anything down anyone's throat as it was the majority of the public who understand and want the station at Constellation - the best choice for transit riders and pedestrians.
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  #1032  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2010, 9:23 PM
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Hawthorne is a competent writer and architectural critic. However, I think he is mostly wrong here. A few thoughts.

Generalizing, he seems to have fallen in love with the traditional old style cities (NY, London) as much as he accuses others of loving sprawl. This is a tendency I have criticized in him before: he often sounds like he is writing for a NY audience and looking anxiously over his shoulder to see if they are approving. He still views Los Angeles as trying to become NY, but doing kind of a poor job of it. Maybe he’s applying for a job at the NY Times.

He is quick to praise NY and the like but fails to take their failures into account. He recognizes some of them (miserable traffic, lack of parking) but apparently thinks of them as the inevitable quid pro quo of urbanity. He doesn’t even acknowledge their other problems (high costs, excessive human crowding, tiny living spaces) apparently thinking them as being either acceptable or inevitable. I don’t believe they are either acceptable or inevitable and I don’t think many Angelinos do either.

From a theory standpoint, if he really wants to be considered a serious “post-suburban” critic he may want to read up on his “postmodern” philoso-babble. Hasn’t he heard that all solutions are local? That they apply to the particular facts and historical circumstances of place? That you can’t take a theory that was tried in one place and apply it to a different place whose inhabitants have different desires and expectations from life?

Perhaps a better approach for LA would be to build subways in the areas that are dense or are planned to become dense (DT to the sea) but not to build rapid transit across miles of light density with no particular expectations for change. This just invites the critics to attack your waste of money in the light of other needs; and they are right.

And perhaps even within the LA core, density should be encouraged but not excessive “rat-hole” density in the center of otherwise moderate density. This is “Calcutta” urban density; easy to achieve if you just remove all the health and safety rules.

And perhaps a more moderate density would be better than NY style density, particularly if it is to cover an area as large as the 50 sq. miles of the Westside? Moderate density with subways in the densest areas and HSR connecting nearby centers of density is the proper plan for the LA area.
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  #1033  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2010, 9:31 PM
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LAB: not worth arguing about, but you are focusing on geographic center of CC and I am focusing on the center of expected use. Remember that on two days of the week the commercial high rises get zero usage and the stop within the mall will get huge usage. I would expect shopping, restaurant and club usage to exceed commuter usage, but I could be wrong. If the Constellation entrance is handled well it should be fine.

Just as a gratuitous aside, the Century Plaza needs to go. Not historic (I can remember when it wasn't there); not iconic; not pedestrian friendly; reeks of the 1960's. But what the hey, that issue is the least of my worries.
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  #1034  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2010, 9:45 PM
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LAB: don't like your use of "brainwashed" since it gives the impression that the MTA is a group of enlightened heroes bringing freedom from mental oppression to the stupid masses.

This is backwards. The locals are the ones that know what they want; the MTA is narrow in their technical expertise and NOT expert in local effects and how people want to live. They are there to advise and then do what they are told, NOT to tell the electorate what they want. Every effort should be made to accommodate local concerns. Sometimes it can't be done and then compensation needs to be paid to reflect the cost of the damage.
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  #1035  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2010, 10:32 PM
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I still can't believe how anyone could fail to understand the basic concepts of achieving higher ridership when it comes to transit usage, and in this case, where to put the most effective and relevant station in Century City based on accessibility from ALL sides.

Even though I agree with you that the Century Plaza Hotel could be retrofitted better by being more pedestrian oriented, it doesn't mean that people staying at the hotel won't walk out the front lobby door directly to the future subway station. The fact is a station at Constellation would STILL be relevant to more people on ANY given day of the week (Monday thru Sunday).

Why?

The station at Constellation would still be strongly connected to the Westfield mall. It was QUOTED on a recent article from a Westfield representative that no matter where the station finally ends up at (either SM or Constellation), the future expansion projects lined up for the mall (flagship Nordstrom, remodeled Bloomingdales, new residential high-rise, etc.) would include pedestrian access to the subway station. Meaning, having a station at Constellation would still be VERY convenient for shoppers (as it would be for SM).

However, having a station at SM would ONLY be relevant to shoppers, less so for office workers where the bulk of towers sit right at Constellation/Ave of the Stars. Which ones? Century Plaza Towers (2 towers), Ave of the Stars, MGM, Sun America, and the future proposed twin 47-story towers on the NW corner.

That means it would be relevant to MORE people on weekdays as office workers would be able to CONVENIENTLY ride the subway into Century City anywhere where rail reaches (including Metrolink via Union Station).

That is why Constellation is the station everyone is supporting with the exception of a couple dozen NIMBYs in Beverly Hills. And reading the comments on various sites, EVEN residents of BH want it at Constellation. Just because someone lives in BH doesn't mean they automatically support the SM Blvd. option.

So to correct your statement about Metro, the staff and board will eventually support the Constellation station because most residents in LA support that option (including many residents who live in BH).
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  #1036  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2010, 1:32 AM
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To add to what LAB is talking about, if Constellation/AOTS was chosen, you could have station portals (entrances to station) at:

1.The intersection itself
2.Westfield Mall (and future developments)
3.Empty lot across the street (presumabely integrated with whatever development is planned there).
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  #1037  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2010, 9:57 PM
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As expected, the Metro Board of Directors today approved and adopted the LPAs for both the Westside Subway Extension and Regional Connector projects. The projects now enter the FEIS/FEIR phase and construction could begin as early as 2012.

http://thesource.metro.net/2010/10/2...l-study-phase/
http://thesource.metro.net/2010/10/2...-of-directors/
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  #1038  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2010, 1:34 PM
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From the Los Angeles Times:

Beverly Hills could be obstacle in subway extension

City leaders voice concerns over risks of tunneling through oil fields and areas of methane gas on route that would go beneath high school, which houses emergency center.

By Dan Weikel, Los Angeles Times
October 30, 2010

As the pace quickens for construction of the Westside subway extension, the city of Beverly Hills could prove to be a formidable obstacle for the long-delayed project.

Citing potential hazards from the construction and operation of the new rail link, municipal leaders, school district officials and residents strongly oppose a possible route that would require tunneling under homes and Beverly Hills High School, which has 2,200 students and serves as the city's emergency preparedness center.

Though officials say they want to cooperate with Metro to avoid conflict, the Beverly Hills Unified School District recently hired an attorney, who has begun looking into the adequacy of the project's environmental review.

"We want to work with the experts and do everything we can," said Lisa Korbatov, the school board's vice president. "But if it comes down to a lawsuit, we won't shy away from it."

Korbatov was among dozens of Beverly Hills officials and residents who expressed their concerns to the Metro Board of Directors on Thursday shortly before the panel selected a general route for the subway along the heavily populated Wilshire corridor.

The 9.5-mile alignment runs from the Purple Line's Wilshire-Western station to the Veterans Affairs' West Los Angeles Medical Center. Stops are proposed at Fairfax Avenue, La Cienega Boulevard, Century City, Westwood-UCLA, and the Veterans Affairs' campus.

City and school district officials support the Westside extension and advocate running the line under Santa Monica Boulevard with a station at Avenue of the Stars, as Metro had long envisioned.

But under an alternative the transit agency unveiled a few months ago, the station could be moved a block south to Constellation Boulevard and Avenue of the Stars in the heart of Century City. The shift would require tunneling under homes and the city's only high school.

"You know, they changed it on us. A lot of people in Beverly Hills feel they were duped," said Ken Goldman, president of the South West Beverly Hills Homeowners Assn.

Metro officials say that from a ridership standpoint, the Century City station makes more sense on Constellation. The Santa Monica site would be next to a golf course, they note, while the Constellation station would be close to shopping areas, condominiums and commercial high-rises.

"It's the center of the center," as Metro board member and Los Angeles County Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky said at Thursday's meeting.

City leaders and residents contend, however, that the Constellation option might threaten homes, the high school and the city's emergency center because of explosive methane gas, active and abandoned oil wells, and the potential for subsidence from tunneling operations. Some of these problems were encountered during construction of the Red Line subway years ago and more recently in Europe and Asia.

Once the Westside extension is finished, residents and city officials say, noise might be a problem and the vibration from trains could damage buildings and the high school, which was built in the 1920s.

"I don't know what the reason is for running this under the high school," said City Councilwoman Nancy Krasne. "If there is a major disaster, we have 2,200 students there and every bit of our emergency equipment and earthquake supplies."

If the station is located on Santa Monica, city leaders say, pedestrian tunnels with moving sidewalks could be installed to move subway riders to and from portals on Constellation.

Dave Sotero, a Metro spokesman, defended the transit agency, saying it has not received any noise or vibration complaints from subway operations for at least 15 years. Nor, he added, have there been any substantiated claims for property damage.

Read the rest by clicking here.
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  #1039  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2010, 3:30 PM
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They just don't want it going under the high school and a handful of homes. Its baseless "think about the children" arguments. It already goes under plenty of homes and nobody is suffering from it.
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  #1040  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2010, 10:43 PM
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Beverly Hills will only be an obstacle if Metro lets them be.
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