Phoenix Area Stadium and Arena News

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by az_daniel

It absolutely can. The only real knock on the location as it exists today is a distinct lack of transit access - something that can be resolved fairly easily in the future. The coyote's proposal will have absolutely zero impact on Mill. Tempe Marketplace is a glorified outdoor mall surrounded by a sea of parking and big box chain retail. The nature of this coyote's proposal is extraordinarily and fundamentally different.

Also, the site is not right on the edge of a residential area, and no residential area will be "destroyed". If anything, this will probably generate an explosion of demand for *more* residential in the area.

I mean I think the fear he has is that it will Canablaize Mill but I agree it wont, outside of gamedays this is just more Office/Apartments/Hotels with some retail pads. Id imagine it will b mostly chain restaurants and be pretty tame/boring outside of game times.

Its close enough to Mill to act as an expansion on Mill/Downtown Tempe more than detract from it, Priest and Washington is like 3-5 minutes from Mill by car

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I mean I think the fear he has is that it will Canablaize Mill but I agree it wont, outside of gamedays this is just more Office/Apartments/Hotels with some retail pads. Id imagine it will b mostly chain restaurants and be pretty tame/boring outside of game times.

Its close enough to Mill to act as an expansion on Mill/Downtown Tempe more than detract from it, Priest and Washington is like 3-5 minutes from Mill by car

I agree, I think there are three distinct functions in the three spaces, and really, more than ever, they're merging into one larger zone.

Mill: Entertainment, nightlife and non-chain restaurants
Temple Marketplace: Shopping
Yotes: Chain restaurants, major events

With all three becoming closer to connection, each should be able to develop its own identity. More year-round population will certainly help, but Mill has largely always been something for the locals and day-time workers. The arena will bring in over 10K people from outside Tempe every game night, many whom might make a night of it and go to Mill before or after the game.

[azsunsurfer]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

I agree, I think there are three distinct functions in the three spaces, and really, more than ever, they're merging into one larger zone.

Mill: Entertainment, nightlife and non-chain restaurants
Temple Marketplace: Shopping
Yotes: Chain restaurants, major events

With all three becoming closer to connection, each should be able to develop its own identity. More year-round population will certainly help, but Mill has largely always been something for the locals and day-time workers. The arena will bring in over 10K people from outside Tempe every game night, many whom might make a night of it and go to Mill before or after the game.

Plus aren't they building a theater too? I assume for live performances? How many live performance venues can the Valley support? There's the TCA, Gammage, the arena itself, Mesa Center, Chandler Center....list goes on.

[Obadno]

How many theater venues can a city of 5 million + support?

A lot.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

Plus aren't they building a theater too? I assume for live performances? How many live performance venues can the Valley support? There's the TCA, Gammage, the arena itself, Mesa Center, Chandler Center....list goes on.

We’ve grown by about 1 million people in the last ten years and how many new performing venues have we added? I think we actually rank below average on performing venues per capita.

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by locolife

We’ve grown by about 1 million people in the last ten years and how many new performing venues have we added? I think we actually rank below average on performing venues per capita.

Yeah, the Van Buren is new in that time, and the Musical Instrument Museum which gets pretty good concerts if you're into the stuff they draw. But it doesn't feel like we have too many.

[az_daniel]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I mean I think the fear he has is that it will Canablaize Mill but I agree it wont, outside of gamedays this is just more Office/Apartments/Hotels with some retail pads. Id imagine it will b mostly chain restaurants and be pretty tame/boring outside of game times.

Its close enough to Mill to act as an expansion on Mill/Downtown Tempe more than detract from it, Priest and Washington is like 3-5 minutes from Mill by car

Yep, ultimately this is just a mixed use project that anchors the west end of the lake and includes an arena for the yotes and other events. Mill will always be Mill, and ASU students will always want to be able to party and drink and walk to tons of nightlife right next to campus.

[PHXFlyer11]

I would just add that downtown Tempe has also added ALOT of housing, hotel rooms and offices over the last 5-years. So there's not reason why additional entertainment amenities shouldn't be just fine. The overall area has grown and the number of people in it. This will bring another 10k people to the area every game as well.

[combusean]

^ Yeah, I have my doubts on the overall feasibility of this project with its airport issues and financing but it's hard to see it as anything but as an extension of the downtown core, especially with the sprawl of big apartment blocks on Rio and the IDEA campus connecting it to the rest of Mill Avenue proper.

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by combusean

^ Yeah, I have my doubts on the overall feasibility of this project with its airport issues and financing but it's hard to see it as anything but as an extension of the downtown core, especially with the sprawl of big apartment blocks on Rio and the IDEA campus connecting it to the rest of Mill Avenue proper.

Yeah, you could honestly have a pretty cool stretch from Mill --> the arena down 1st St. The more pedestrian-oriented ends of those big apartment buildings are along 1st; there's another one proposed for the corner of 1st/Hardy; and they're already building the Carvana campus at more or less 1st and Priest, across Rio from the arena. The apartment buildings already have some live/work units along 1st, and The Shop brewery is there as well. If they could get a little more food/beverage retail between Farmer and Priest along 1st, it could be a cool pedestrian/bike/scooter connection to the stadium, while Rio remains the car access.

[N830MH]

This is it!!! They are going to build new Coyotes arena. I’ll believe it when I see it again soon!!

https://www.abc15.com/sports/coyotes...Jy5o&fs=e&s=cl

[ASU Diablo]

Article too damn long to copy/paste.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...or/7474385001/

Phoenix is pushing to stop Tempe's nearly $2 billion development plans with the Arizona Coyotes, saying it violates an agreement between the two cities that has consistently been unenforced for other projects since 1999.
The agreement in question, called an intergovernmental agreement, or an IGA, dictates how close homes can be built to the airport. It’s meant to shield residents from constant airplane noise in certain no-build areas.

The Coyotes' proposal — which includes more than 1,600 apartments in addition to a NHL hockey arena and an entertainment district — would be on 46 acres of Tempe-owned land that sits directly in that high-noise zone, a couple of miles from Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport, where hundreds of planes fly take off and land each day.

Hockey team officials said the apartments are needed to make the project financially doable, and if they’re cut from the plan, the whole deal may fall through.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Article too damn long to copy/paste.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...or/7474385001/

Phoenix is just hella-mad that they aren't getting what is probably going to be one of the most bad-ass arena/entertainment districts in the country. Where was Phoenix's complaints for the already built thousands of multi-family units in the same vicinity?

[ASU Diablo]

Airport officials just admitted to that same issue...I call their reasoning BS. Sour grapes...

"(It's) a clear violation of the agreement and the longstanding promises that our cities made with each other some 30 years ago," Chad Makovsky, the director of Aviation Services at Sky Harbor, told The Arizona Republic.
But airport officials acknowledge that hundreds of other Tempe apartments have been built in the high noise area over the past two decades and they didn’t object in those instances.
Hazy rules in the Phoenix-Tempe agreement have further complicated the feud. The team cites exceptions that would make their project OK, which appear to be backed up in the policies themselves, but Phoenix and even a former Federal Aviation Administration official said those loopholes don’t apply to new housing.

But airport documents show Tempe has repeatedly built housing in the high-noise area over the past two decades, and Sky Harbor confirmed there have been nearly 400 apartment units constructed in Tempe's no-build zone since the policy took effect. Phoenix never raised an issue with any of those developments, however, and just last month airport officials stayed quiet when Tempe approved another 395-unit complex at Priest and Third Street — well within the high-noise area — and only objected later when the Coyotes fight heated up.

Sky Harbor said it wasn’t aware of the other projects beforehand and blamed Tempe for not notifying airport officials ahead of time, which they also said is an IGA requirement. “Our ability to address those units was limited because Tempe did not notify Sky Harbor of these proposed developments as they are obligated to under (the IGA),” the airport wrote in an email to The Republic.

“(We learned of the Coyotes) development through media coverage, so the airport was able to raise concerns before Tempe even began negotiations.”

The lack of awareness raises questions about whether the no-housing policy is necessary, given the hundreds of violations that have easily escaped the airport’s notice since 1999.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Sky Harbor said it wasn’t aware of the other projects beforehand and blamed Tempe for not notifying airport officials ahead of time, which they also said is an IGA requirement. “Our ability to address those units was limited because Tempe did not notify Sky Harbor of these proposed developments as they are obligated to under (the IGA),” the airport wrote in an email to The Republic.

That's complete bunk. Tempe had to submit an obstruction evaluation for each and every development along with associated cranes. So Sky Harbor is saying they are not paying attention to submitted development height evaluations?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

Phoenix is just hella-mad that they aren't getting what is probably going to be one of the most bad-ass arena/entertainment districts in the country. Where was Phoenix's complaints for the already built thousands of multi-family units in the same vicinity?

Maybe Phoenix should spend more time trying to get such developments downtown instead of hyping up high street all the time.

As I have said many times City hall has done a horrible job letting Tempe and Scottsdale get all of the potential office redevelopments.

I get it, Phoenix is a big place, and all the council wants to see their parts of the city grow, and they have done a great job bringing in industry and development all over the city limits but they really have just let Downtown do its own thing without much in the way of support.

Tempe gets these high profile developments because Tempe is 100% focused on development in downtown Tempe all the time.

When was the last time the city really put forth effort to get a financial or major tech company downtown? They hardly made a peep as Wells Fargo and Chase cleared out. Why didnt the city do what it could to keep hundred if not thousands of Financial employees get moved? And I get it, Tempe first boomed as an entertainment/Living destination before it got these high profile offices. Downtown needs to become a place offices think are worth paying premium for.

That will come because it really is becoming such a place but the city should put more effort into courting offices.

[PyroD]

Does anyone know if there is a publicly available map of the zone in question? Phoenix seems to be laying all of the blame at Tempe's feet but I know for a fact there is Phoenix housing much closer to the airport than Tempe could even get.

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Maybe Phoenix should spend more time trying to get such developments downtown instead of hyping up high street all the time.

As I have said many times City hall has done a horrible job letting Tempe and Scottsdale get all of the potential office redevelopments.

I get it, Phoenix is a big place, and all the council wants to see their parts of the city grow, and they have done a great job bringing in industry and development all over the city limits but they really have just let Downtown do its own thing without much in the way of support.

Tempe gets these high profile developments because Tempe is 100% focused on development in downtown Tempe all the time.

When was the last time the city really put forth effort to get a financial or major tech company downtown? They hardly made a peep as Wells Fargo and Chase cleared out. Why didnt the city do what it could to keep hundred if not thousands of Financial employees get moved? And I get it, Tempe first boomed as an entertainment/Living destination before it got these high profile offices. Downtown needs to become a place offices think are worth paying premium for.

That will come because it really is becoming such a place but the city should put more effort into courting offices.

It is true that Tempe has tiny footprint which allows it to focus, but the simple truth is employers want to be there for a variety of reasons. One is their employees can live in the burbs or Scottsdale and have short commutes to a cool area.

For a number of reasons, employers don't seem much interested in being in downtown Phoenix. The same is true for Midtown, where they can barely keep leasing rates at current levels. If not for Banner, there haven't been many additions. It's not for a lack of trying, there are entire departments in the EcoDevo side who's job it is to get employers to lease commercial space in downtown and midtown. One used to be a buddy and he expressed to me that it's a slog. Many of the law firms and governmental agencies downtown are downsizing, which is cutting against the goals. Work from home isn't helping either.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

It is true that Tempe has tiny footprint which allows it to focus, but the simple truth is employers want to be there for a variety of reasons. One is their employees can live in the burbs or Scottsdale and have short commutes to a cool area.

For a number of reasons, employers don't seem much interested in being in downtown Phoenix. The same is true for Midtown, where they can barely keep leasing rates at current levels. If not for Banner, there haven't been many additions. It's not for a lack of trying, there are entire departments in the EcoDevo side who's job it is to get employers to lease commercial space in downtown and midtown. One used to be a buddy and he expressed to me that it's a slog. Many of the law firms and governmental agencies downtown are downsizing, which is cutting against the goals. Work from home isn't helping either.

Downtown and Midtown are becoming more suburban feeling than most realize with a slew of mid-rise developments that have popped up over the years with many, many more coming. And with Roosevelt booming and becoming a much needed night-life district, downtown having a grocery store with potentially another on the way, and downtown having become a sports mecca (even with the Coyotes going to Tempe), it's an age-old excuse not to live in downtown because it's not cool enough. Mill and Scottsdale may still have it beat, but Phoenix is catching up very quickly and there's plenty of residents available for downtown to grow and compete.

However, I do agree with the issues with of getting commercial space leased, but the core has become a startup tech hub and also becoming a healthcare and bio-sciences hub. With ASU continually growing, it's only a matter of time before someone parks a big company in downtown or midtown.

But as Obadno has stated, it WOULD happen a lot faster if Phoenix would push downtown instead of pushing High Street so much. High Street can take care of itself at this point. Focus on what's more important. The loss of Chase and Wells Fargo does make a hard impact and Phoenix needs to fight to keep these companies downtown.

[MiEncanto]

What do you mean by push High Street? I honestly haven't been paying attention to that.

Phx residents and the councilmembers who don't represent downtown often accuse staff of being overly focused on downtown.

I think there's a reason Block 23 only built a few floors of commercial space; and they didn't even get a new tenant, EY just moved across the street. Snell is moving from one to the other. We've been waiting on the big new tenant downtown for years and I'm honestly surprised it hasn't happened yet. But the law firms and finance related are just now what it used to be and I don't see that coming back.